88 Blazer Trike

[Fowler]

I would think it ok. money seems about right.... It's about the same thing I did on Last Winter.....bored for light press on boat trailer bearing races. didn't make any provisions for seals....just made leather washers......turned and threaded a bolt from C1018. Now I'm assuming this is for standard Harley trees and bolt. Is that what front end you are going to use?

I was reviewing my E bay account and noticed a neck and bearings were ordered.

I assume my wife ordered a set for me for Christmas (cant let her know I know)

It does not look like it has seals or is provisioned for seals

I like your idea of the leather seals

Tell me more about that

Also interested in other ideas for seals

 

[LarryA]

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Bob..... it was maybe 3 yrs.ago, any how I had a boat trailer bearing kit on hand w/ one seal. I couldn't see how I could use the seal with the triple trees bearing directly against the cone. plus I wanted to keep the neck bearing spacing as long as possible. That said, I decided to go with a homemade seal that that was more or less a dust cover. the assembled bearing stood proud out of the neck about the thickness of some leather I had on hand. In retrospect I would probably use some plastic sheet like ice cream pail material......lol....shows you what i know about plastics! Any how the seal id fits around the protuding cone, the od is the same as neck tube dia. Thickness is what ever the clearance is between cone and tree. I greased the leather before installing......I think plastic would be better. Others may have better methods and ways to seal up this area! Good luck Larry

 

[Fowler]

I got a idea from reading your post.

I can make my top and bottom bearing spacers thicker (maybe 1/4 inch)

So the neck would have 1/4 inch space between the top and bottom and the triple tree

Then steal the Ol'Lady's cutting board and cut the dust shields out of it.

Basically the same idea you had with the plastic but a little thicker

I have used those plastic cutting board for a number of things.

They are real tough

what do you think about that idea?

 

[peteg59]

Typically, the trip tree & associated bearings, spacers, etc., needs to be assembled to a "tighter" spec than on a 2 wheeler.

My only concern would be how long a poly or non metallic part would hold up under that scenario, or are we discussing everything above ​the already torqued assemblies ?

 

[Fowler]

Typically, the trip tree & associated bearings, spacers, etc., needs to be assembled to a "tighter" spec than on a 2 wheeler.

My only concern would be how long a poly or non metallic part would hold up under that scenario, or are we discussing everything above ​the already torqued assemblies ?

I have not started fabricating anything yet.

The neck and bearings I assume I will get on Christmas (so I have not seen them yet)

I have two 9X12 1/2 inch plates to fabricate the top and bottom from

 

[vwbug72501]

Bob,

I've been following this thread and had an idea that I thought I'd throw out there.



You could add an oil seal to the top and bottom Triple Tree plates by welding on a piece of tubing with an ID equal to the OD of the seal you would use and turn and polish the OD of the neck piece equal to the ID of the seal. The picture is a little blurry, sorry.

Looks like this would seal up the whole neck bearing area.

Never tried this. Just a thought.

 

[Fowler]

Bob,

I've been following this thread and had an idea that I thought I'd throw out there.



You could add an oil seal to the top and bottom Triple Tree plates by welding on a piece of tubing with an ID equal to the OD of the seal you would use and turn and polish the OD of the neck piece equal to the ID of the seal. The picture is a little blurry, sorry.

Looks like this would seal up the whole neck bearing area.

Never tried this. Just a thought.

I like that idea.

So basically the seal would be on the outside on the neck instead on the inside, then a ring welded on the outside of the seal.

The seal would fit between the neck and the outer ring

Then I could use something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005M2SJ4A/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

 

[vwbug72501]

Yep. Rings welded to top and bottom plates of the triple tree to hold the OD of the seal.

 

[LarryA]

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I like the seal idea on the neck tube......the only thing I would consider, would to maybe use an all rubber seal, or double sided seal, and just glue it on to the tree. Or would filling cavity of seal with rtv hold the seal to the tree??? would save welding and boring. Might use this trick when and if I ever change neck bearings. my .02

 

[Fowler]

and I can get them incrementally smaller to compensate for the shaft size after it is polished for the seal

https://www.grainger.com/category/r...ngs/power-transmission/ecatalog/N-kz2Z1z0o03d

 

[Fowler]

I like the seal idea on the neck tube......the only thing I would consider, would to maybe use an all rubber seal, or double sided seal, and just glue it on to the tree. Or would filling cavity of seal with rtv hold the seal to the tree??? would save welding and boring. Might use this trick when and if I ever change neck bearings. my .02

Great Ideas!!!

 

[Sidecarbill]

I built my trike in 1972. No seals relatively close fit between the neck and trees. About six years ago took it apart to check things out, cause the front end had a little play. Repacked bearings they were fine. No rust and very little dirt. Just sayin those bearins aren't movin around much.

 

[Fowler]

I built my trike in 1972. No seals relatively close fit between the neck and trees. About six years ago took it apart to check things out, cause the front end had a little play. Repacked bearings they were fine. No rust and very little dirt. Just sayin those bearins aren't movin around much.

So are seals really needed?

If I did use seals on the the outside of the neck and glued them on with RTV that should not hurt anything and not cost much and if I do not have to weld a outer ring then its not hard to add it

If I do have to add the outer ring it still would not be hard to do but I would have to get the rings machined that would cost money and that is kind of on short supply right now

I have some time before I get the neck so I will research as much as I can before then

Everyone keep the ides coming. The different suggestions are very helpful and making me think

 

[LarryA]

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Thinking this morning....my situation...neck and forks are assembled, not going to take apart to make better seals.......thought of butt glued o-rings.....maybe I could wrap a square cross section seal around neck tube ,butt glue ends of seal, then glue seal to the trees??? Bob.... glad you got us thinking about seals, my front wheel throws up a lot of sand and rock. I ride on gravel roads often.

 

[vwbug72501]

Great discussion. I'm thinking that seals become more important if the trike sits outside uncovered a lot where water can collect and start rust.

Sidecarbill's experience shows that a well fit and lubricated bearing is probably going to operate well over time.

LarryA's comments about sand and gravel are valid but I'm thinking that if the sand can get into the neck bearing area then water could also get in there to wash some of it out during rain or washing. I've ridden metric bikes with ball bearings and just a sheet metal cup water shield for the neck bearings and they have performed well even when "crunchy".

I'm not a big fan of permanent solutions depending on adhesives because they usually fail due to the different expansion coefficients of the materials. I realize that adhesives have come a long way but my 2014 Durango already has body panels coming loose because of adhesive failures. I also have a 1957 Dodge panel truck where the mechanically fastened trim pieces are still in their original positions.

Unless you're riding The Tail of the Dragon, these bearings don't move more than 180 degrees and not very fast so seal surfaces don't have to be super smooth. This might be much ado about nothing but a good exercise for your initial design considerations.

Just my (wordy) $.02.

 

[LarryA]

VW Bug...Lol.....went out and actually looked at the trike neck.....radius on back of trees matches neck radius..so..no room to fasten a seal on the back area of the trees,......my greased leather washers will have to do. Stored inside most of the time anyhow.

 

[Fowler]

So I have the neck now

Its nice and thick

I'm building a leading like

I already have the plates for the top and bottom triple trees, I need to figure the offset and width

Tomorrow I am headed to the local metal suppler to buy some 2 x 3/16 square tubing for the forks

I need to get a wheel and tire before the fork build so I will know what width to make the trees and forks.

I'm thinking of a 21" X 3.5 wheel (like I have on my other trike)

Or would a shorter wheel be better?

Is a 3.5 width wide enough?

I'm also thinking about a 40 degree rake

My other trike has a 46 degree rake

Any ideas/suggestions/comments???

 

[LarryA]

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Well Bob, I had most of my trike built before finding Trike Talk. I don't know how much I would have done differently, with the knowledge available here now!

Being a low buck project from the get go, I just used what I had,

and what I could get, cheap.

forks were copied from onetonmagoo's example. tubes 1.75X 1/4 wall dom. lower tree 1" plate. upper tree 5/8 plate. 750 honda rear shocks for fork springs. 1"X 3/16 wall dom for spring rods.

offset was grabbed from a harley tree, Im' thinking 2.5 in.???? or thereabouts.

trail 2"

rake 45deg.......would go with 38/40deg if doing over, (mainly to keep shorter WB.)

my front wheel is a rear wheel from a 750 honda 18 in. the 750 rear axle wt. rating was 600# plus. my front axle is 370# with me in the seat.

 

[Fowler]

Thanks for the input man. It all helps

Well Bob, I had most of my trike built before finding Trike Talk. I don't know how much I would have done differently, with the knowledge available here now!

My first 2 trike were built mostly before I found any forum like this

It wasn't until I was almost finished with the Heathen before I realized there were forums like this

Being a low buck project from the get go, I just used what I had,

and what I could get, cheap.

I always seem to be on a budget and do the same.

I just started a new job so i cant go crazy buying stuff until I see how it works out

forks were copied from onetonmagoo's example. tubes 1.75X 1/4 wall dom. lower tree 1" plate. upper tree 5/8 plate. 750 honda rear shocks for fork springs. 1"X 3/16 wall dom for spring rods.

I have though of a number of different designs but the 2 inch square tubing seems to be the easiest and will the best with my frame. I think a 3/16 wall is thick enough This is what I made the frame from and what the frame is made of on the Heathen. one issue is I have to buy 24 feet of it when I most likely only need 6 - 8 feet for the forks

offset was grabbed from a harley tree, Im' thinking 2.5 in.???? or thereabouts.

I have been researching offset. I don't want to make it to much because it affects the trail. I think I will make everything out of wood before I cut up the only metal plates I have

trail 2"

From what I have been reading 1-2 inches is the best for a Trike

I can adjust my trail several ways but I believe the most adjustment will come form the rocker length

rake 45deg.......would go with 38/40deg if doing over, (mainly to keep shorter WB.)

From what I have been reading Rake is not as important as Trail but the rake can affect the trail, wheel base and steering radius

my front wheel is a rear wheel from a 750 honda 18 in. the 750 rear axle wt. rating was 600# plus. my front axle is 370# with me in the seat.

I only have some skinny motorcycle wheels so I have to buy some. I had some car wheels and tires but my son needed them.

Mostly what i find is 3.5 inch front wheels. I could use a back wheel on front but since I have to buy it first I have to gather as much info and possible before I make a purchase

I am still not sure what front wheel I will use and until I get it I cant design the forks

 

[Fowler]

I got the plates I though where 1/2 inch out of the shed but found out they were only 1/4.

Picked up a 24X9X1/2 plate

I picked up 24' of 2" square tube (way more than I need)

They gave me Free several 2"X12"X1/2 sections (for the rockers)

Got the neck

Got a section of 2" X1/4 angle (to weld the neck to)

Need to figure out what Wheel I will use.

Have not had much time to research it (the new job is using up to much of my brain power)

 

[LarryA]

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I can understand about a new job taking up brain power, new faces,new names, new #'s etc. Time will fix that.

Glad to hear your giving some time to the trike.



I kind of blocked up/mocked up, tacked up the frame, neck, fork tubes etc,



I used a 1in. round shaft about 5' long slid thru the neck bearings and clamped with heater hose clamps, so it held the bearings in place, the shaft extended to the floor. If the shaft is not perfectly straight, rotate 180 deg and split the difference.



then I made a holder from 2x4's to hold the front wheel upright and touching the floor on the wheel centerline.

I had to make sure I had clearance between the front wheel and my front sheet metal. So began juggling, neck height, neck angle, wheel distance, rocker length, (axle to fork lower pivots) and adding in2in. of trail.

Considerations for rocker length......(from axle to fork lower pivots). shock travel was about 3.5 in. front wheel travel ended up being about 4.5in. rocker length turned out to be about 6.5in...... a little longer than I like....I think with less rake, say 40deg, rather than 45 deg , the rocker length could have been shorter......I'm thinking that long rockers and big rake make the front wheel lay over more than I like. But that said, trike rides and steers great! Anyhow, food for thought......larry

 

[Fowler]

What do you think about this for the front wheel?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Ha...ash=item284ac25168:g:1BkAAOSwYL9ZylhP&vxp=mtr

 

[peteg59]

The idea of using a Fatboy rim out front is solid, (no pun intended!), as they are plenty rugged & should have no trouble handling the added weight of a front engine trike. Too bad you live a bit too far away Bob as I have a decent fatboy front wheel like the one you're eyeing on ebay, but with a good season or two left Dunlop on it I'd give you free...

That one on ebay is about $50~$75 overpriced for just a rim with bearings IMO. If it had a decent tire on it, maybe, but when you add shipping, the deal starts to fall apart...

Another thing to consider: If you plan on putting a front brake on it, add cost of rotor, spacers, bolt hardware, tire, etc. it can start getting really pricey! You might do better on a Fatboy rim/wheel $wise on craigslist, more local to you, with no dreaded shipping/handling charges tacked on?

 

[vwbug72501]

I'm with Pete on your choice. I'm using a 2003 VRSC front wheel (19") on my build. I wasn't so concerned about front weight as with the side forces put on the front wheel when a rear wheel drops in a pothole, etc.



With Pete's generous offer I think I'd be looking at shipping an empty box to him with a return shipping label!

 

[rrunner]

Got one of them fatboy wheel on the front of my v8 trike with a rear tire mounted on it. Handles the trike with no problem.

 

[Fowler]

Too bad you live a bit too far away Bob as I have a decent fatboy front wheel like the one you're eyeing on ebay, but with a good season or two left Dunlop on it I'd give you free...

would you consider selling it to me.

I would rather give you my money then some guy on ebay.

I will pay for it and shipping

 

[peteg59]

As Tom suggested above, just send me up a crumpled up newspaper filled box to put the wheel in along with a prepaid return UPS call tag with your info on it, & it'll go out to you soon as I get it. I don't currently know the weight but I'll try to get out to the shop tomorrow & get that for you if you're interested...

I got the wheel in a bigger parts deal a few years ago & although I could easily resell it on craigslist or ebay, I'd rather it go to someone building a trike.

Don't know if the Moderators can PM members but if not, perhaps Papa Z can relay contact info between us....:Shrug:

 

[Fowler]

As Tom suggested above, just send me up a crumpled up newspaper filled box to put the wheel in along with a prepaid return UPS call tag with your info on it, & it'll go out to you soon as I get it. I don't currently know the weight but I'll try to get out to the shop tomorrow & get that for you if you're interested...

I got the wheel in a bigger parts deal a few years ago & although I could easily resell it on craigslist or ebay, I'd rather it go to someone building a trike.

Don't know if the Moderators can PM members but if not, perhaps Papa Z can relay contact info between us....:Shrug:

That would be great. But I insist on paying you something for it.

Please tell me what would be fair and I will enclose a money order in the box

 

[peteg59]

Bob, I have had the wheel sitting over in the corner of my shop for about 3 years now. I have no use for it, and would rather see someone use it than worry about selling it at this point in time.

I'm sure you don't hear this often but honestly, I don't want your money! Save it for something else on the project.

I'll post up the weight of it for you tomorrow, and we'll go from there....

 

[Fowler]

That is very nice of you but that would not feel right to me.

We can work something out offline

Please send weight and size of box needed

My email address is rsfowler@3fowlers.com

Thanks