Residual brake valve on Lehman Monarch 1

[DeerWrangler]

Does anyone know of the part number of the residual brake valve for the rear brakes on the Lehman Monarch 1.

Front brake works wonderful.

My rear brake seems to need to be pumped a time or 2 before it really feels right. Brakes have been bled (no air in them anywhere) and the rear brakes have been adjusted several times ( more of just to make sure that they arent out of adjustment than a problem). So all of the user checks have been done and the only thing that i can think of is the rear brake residual valve.

Not sure if Lehman just used the front residual valve as the residual valve for the back or what. So i am asking others that do have the Lehman kit what they know about it.

FYI... Lehman is one of the few and maybe the ONLy kit maker that has kept the Hondas interconnecting brake system. All ( as i understand it) others have totally seperated the front and rear brake systems so they are independant of each other.

Thanks for any info you all might be able to provide.... This issue might be why same are looking at wanting to convert to Disk brakes * yeah me too but if this valve is my problem than it will fix the ??? I have about the brakes

 

[dusty74]

What year is you Monarch 1. Reason for asking is I have a Monarch II did not know they made a 1. But I am also looking to switch to Disk brakes.

 

[DeerWrangler]

Mine is a 2001 and was Kitted ( if that is a correct word) by the factory in Canada right after the bike was sold as a bike.
The brakes on the trike are designed to stop a car that weighs much more than a trike does and LUCKILY Lehman design keeps all the brakes linked together..
Long story if the rear pressure bleed off is caused by this valve then i will certainly stay with the drum brakes vs going to the disks...Drum may be old teck but they have worked well for eons and are still good on the trikes of today..

Found out that that valve is made by WILWOOD (260-3501) and WILWOOD is the same company that makes the disk brake system that is used on the DISK BRAKE MODELS of the GL Lehman. SUSPECT that its a custom made setup that you nor i can just buy directly from them.

It is always possible that this particular valve might not have been installed on your kit as WE ALL KNOW that not all places that kit trikes are equally good. Hell im not even sure if mine has that Valve but will find out next week when i go in serch of it on the trike....

 

[Lee H. Mann]

The residual check valve is located on top of the swingarm. The valve could be the problem, but I bet the problem is in the front brake link. Your left hand caliper, left wheel mastercylinder and anti-dive unit. You will have the manual next week by snail mail.

The Monarch I produced in 2000 for the GL1800 Goldwing had drum braked and the rear trunk lid lays down when opened. The Monarch II produced after 2004 has disc brakes and the trunk lid raises up when opened. Both trike models have linked brakes in their various forms but are completely different in design.

Wilwood provides the brake pads and emergency or parking brake system for the Monarch II. The calipers are provided by others.

 

[DeerWrangler]

As to rear brake problem? How so the front left and or anti dive unit causing the rear pedal to be mushy. When i changed front pads i checked the anti dive unit and it worked as the trouble shooting process indicated. As far as i can physically see everything works fine when i had all the brake stuff off the front end & i did check to ensure that all things moved together as they should... I DID NOT have a problem other than a desire to change brake shoes/ pads. I was just double checking everything to ensure all was working as best i could

What would be a logical check process to go thru that i already MIGHT not have done.

The rear brake does seem to stay pumped up for a block or so as one drives to one stop sign to another but looses the pressure if there is a mile or so between uses of the rear brake. Once pumped up and foot is held on brake the brake does not bleed of while pressure is applied as it would if air was in lines..

Thanks for sending info my way. much appreciated.

The residual check valve is located on top of the swingarm.

The valve could be the problem, but I bet the problem is in the front brake link. Your left hand caliper, left wheel mastercylinder and anti-dive unit. You will have the manual next week by snail mail.

The Monarch I produced in 2000 for the GL1800 Goldwing had drum braked and the rear trunk lid lays down when opened. The Monarch II produced after 2004 has disc brakes and the trunk lid raises up when opened. Both trike models have linked brakes in their various forms but are completely different in design.

Wilwood provides the brake pads and emergency or parking brake system for the Monarch II. The calipers are provided by others.

 

[crazy]

As to rear brake problem? How so the front left and or anti dive unit causing the rear pedal to be mushy. When i changed front pads i checked the anti dive unit and it worked as the trouble shooting process indicated. As far as i can physically see everything works fine when i had all the brake stuff off the front end & i did check to ensure that all things moved together as they should... I DID NOT have a problem other than a desire to change brake shoes/ pads. I was just double checking everything to ensure all was working as best i could

What would be a logical check process to go thru that i already MIGHT not have done.

The rear brake does seem to stay pumped up for a block or so as one drives to one stop sign to another but looses the pressure if there is a mile or so between uses of the rear brake. Once pumped up and foot is held on brake the brake does not bleed of while pressure is applied as it would if air was in lines..

Thanks for sending info my way. much appreciated.

WOW!. I have that EXACT problem also.

I'll be watching this thread for updates. Thanks to all who post their findings.

 

[DeerWrangler]

Whatever problem I or someone else might have may never be had by anyone else in a hundred years. Yet issues that i have run across on my trike generally have been had by others somewhere along the line.
Since this Goldwing Trike is the first GL as well as the first trike i have owned much of the mechanics is new to me as its pertinate to the GL Trike.

Lots of people have had electrical / mechanical problems have had ? and by posting we can all find answers by the help and advise from others who have been down the road before us or know more about it than we do.

Some of the Lehman installers probably have a voice recognition setup on their phones due to me calling them about question i have about something or other. Whethere its by luck or that just how they operate everyone has been super great about assisting over the phone & NEVER have i been brushed off....

 

[trikezone]

There are a few components in this system that may be causing or contributing to this problem.

There is a check valve(not residual) located above the swingarm. Easy to check as flow is only allowed one way. Lehman part number GC6003.

Drums should be checked for roundness and turned to true if necessary. This can make a huge difference in your drum brake system efficiency and quality of braking.

The brake pads should be set up so they are right there, very, very slight drag. There are no automatic adjusters. This can be tested to a certain extent by holding the park brake on to just the point of drag and then try the brake pedal. This will tell you if you have a pad drum issue or if you still have no brakes on the first stroke you have another issue.

Air in the system.
There is a specific procedure for bleeding the Honda linked brake system in the Honda shop manual and further to that Lehman has specific instructions as well for the trike conversion set-up on a Monarch I. It is not as simple as cracking a bleed screw trying one pump and getting no air and saying it is good. Sometimes you must pump and few reservoirs of fluid through to a certain area to get the air to move out. ABS bikes seem to generally cause more problems with air in the systems.

See if any of this helps.

 

[DeerWrangler]

Me referring to "the" valve as a residual valve was because in a conversation with the Lehman tech folks regarding this brake issue THEY said " Its probably the residual valve, Lehman # such and such, it is made by Wilwood and their number for it is 260-3501" I had no idea that there even was anything special in the rear brake lines until the Lehman Tech made that comment.

The brake drums and rear shoes and the front brake pads were replaced last year when i first bought the trike. Reason for replacing the drums was that the Drums were taken to a be turned but mechanic said that as the center hole was a little out of round he really could not true the drums up as that center hole needed to be round for it to be centered on his machine... As shoes are no longer machined to fit a specific drum ( unlike in the old days where a pr of shoes were machined to fit the drums they were going to be matched to) i hand fitted / sanded the shoes to the drums myself and they fit right! very light drag all the way around as drum is turned- no tight nor loose places on either wheel.

The feeling of gotta pump the brakes was there before AND after i did the brake work. Although the trike stops better now the "got to pump once" has not been done away with YET!

Its not as if there are no brakes when the rear brakes are applied its just they you have to depress them a LONG way before you feel anything and makes one feel pretty insecure with the rear brakes. " LONG way" means that i feel as if i have to almost stand on my toes in order to apply the rear brakes... Since i have full running boards all around. My foot pegs are Kuryakyn Floorboards w heel / toe shifter & that puts the rear brake pedal on level with my pegs & only about 1 in in front of foot peg. When i apply rear brakes the pedal starts just above level with pegs but the minute it goes below level i have to go toes down in order to continue to apply pressure.

Quite possibly the brake pedal would be considered as Normal if my trike had regular pegs instead of boards.

But it doesnt and i feel that my road experience is enough that i feel there is something not quite right with them BUT i just cant figure out what is causing it.

There is no leaks anywhere in the brake system & no pooling of brake fluid in end caps of brake cylinders. No ballooning of brake lines when pressure is applied, no mushy feeling of the pedal as one feels if there is air in the lines. Once pumped its solid feeling and retains that solid feel as long as you hold foot on brake & that indicated that there is no bleedoff back to res / master cylinder.

I have heard that Lehman has a specific process for bleeding the braken on their trikes due their system NOT isolating/ seperating the front brakes from the rear brakes as do most ( if not all ) other trike kit makers. But as of yet i have not been able to locate / find that procedure.. I'm guessing that its sim to the Honda procedure but not sure if it is or if Lehmandoesnt require that the front be unloaded ( jacked up) before bleeding./ IF YOU DO HAVE THAT procedure i certainly would appreciate a copy / directions for doing it.

I truely do appreciate any and all suggestions and best guesses. I could be missing something very obvious or have overlooked something that another would have immediately caught.

Having worked in the electonics field for eons i always insisted on going back to the begenning and starting from scratch as someone could have overlooked something. " Telling me that your car will not do 100 MPH today DOES NOT mean that it even has gas, tires nor that it starts" & thats why i welcome any and all help.

"

There are a few components in this system that may be causing or contributing to this problem.

There is a check valve(not residual) located above the swingarm.

Easy to check as flow is only allowed one way. Lehman part number GC6003.

Drums should be checked for roundness and turned to true if necessary. This can make a huge difference in your drum brake system efficiency and quality of braking.

The brake pads should be set up so they are right there, very, very slight drag. There are no automatic adjusters. This can be tested to a certain extent by holding the park brake on to just the point of drag and then try the brake pedal. This will tell you if you have a pad drum issue or if you still have no brakes on the first stroke you have another issue.

Air in the system.

There is a specific procedure for bleeding the Honda linked brake system in the Honda shop manual and further to that Lehman has specific instructions as well for the trike conversion set-up on a Monarch I. It is not as simple as cracking a bleed screw trying one pump and getting no air and saying it is good. Sometimes you must pump and few reservoirs of fluid through to a certain area to get the air to move out. ABS bikes seem to generally cause more problems with air in the systems.

See if any of this helps.

 

[Ray & Paula]

Does anyone know of the part number of the residual brake valve for the rear brakes on the Lehman Monarch 1.

Front brake works wonderful.

My rear brake seems to need to be pumped a time or 2 before it really feels right. Brakes have been bled (no air in them anywhere) and the rear brakes have been adjusted several times ( more of just to make sure that they arent out of adjustment than a problem). So all of the user checks have been done and the only thing that i can think of is the rear brake residual valve.

Not sure if Lehman just used the front residual valve as the residual valve for the back or what. So i am asking others that do have the Lehman kit what they know about it.

FYI... Lehman is one of the few and maybe the ONLy kit maker that has kept the Hondas interconnecting brake system. All ( as i understand it) others have totally seperated the front and rear brake systems so they are independant of each other.

Thanks for any info you all might be able to provide.... This issue might be why same are looking at wanting to convert to Disk brakes * yeah me too but if this valve is my problem than it will fix the ??? I have about the brakes

Hi, I just came across your post and I have a 2004 GL1800 Lehman Monarch (not the ll). I was asked in my post (link below) about having a residual check valve. Since you have one, I'm now thinking I may have one as well. I'm going to try to find that valve today.... After doing a new drum brake install, my left side is pulling to the left along with the brakes locking up easily upon using the foot pedal. In addition, it's also locking up on the left. Also, It does the same if using the front hand brake alone due to being linked but, it takes a little more pressure to do so. I have a post on this as well that shows/tells everything that I have thrown at it. Everyone involved in my post has been second to none in helping me out but, we haven't quite nailed it down yet. Since you have/had a 2001 GL1800 Monarch Lehman, I would like to know if you have any ideas, thoughts and or suggestions? I would sincerely appreciate it. Thanks. Ray

https://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/64630-New-Brake-Shoes-Locking-Up-2004-Lehman-Goldwing