Question about smoothness while riding

[Burnerboy]

Hi gang,
As you know I'm new to trike riding..

I just got my 2010 Goldwing (Roadsmith conversion) back from the builders dealership last week and been out only twice on her.

My question is: Do all trikes ride kinda "wobbly"... I took to the trike like a fish in water, and totally enjoy riding it (I have maybe 200 miles on it since returned to me.) BUT it seems very wobbly (if that's the right word??) .. I did get the power steering rake kit added, and she steers great, w/o any hard work needed to steer it..

I can learn to live with that wobbly feeling if that is normal, and I'm finding myself going around corners with a smile on my face, but I have to hold on cause it feels like it's going to tip over, but it's not (I know that's a feeling I'll have to get used to very quick)...BUT my question is: I find it NOT AS SMOOTH as my stock Goldwing..IS THIS NORMAL??

thanks for any added responses!
Ronnie

 

[DWATC]

When I first got my trike it called it "twitchy". You are causing it by holding on. Just relax and go with the flow and it will quit that. I ride just about all the time without really gripping the handlebars. Get on an open stretch of road and set the cruise at a comfortable speed then place the palms of your hands against the inside edges of the end of the bars and ride that was for a short distances and see if the "wobble" goes away.

 

[rhino 2]

Hi gang,
As you know I'm new to trike riding..

I just got my 2010 Goldwing (Roadsmith conversion) back from the builders dealership last week and been out only twice on her.
My question is: Do all trikes ride kinda "wobbly"... I took to the trike like a fish in water, and totally enjoy riding it (I have maybe 200 miles on it since returned to me.) BUT it seems very wobbly (if that's the right word??) .. I did get the power steering rake kit added, and she steers great, w/o any hard work needed to steer it..
I can learn to live with that wobbly feeling if that is normal, and I'm finding myself going around corners with a smile on my face, but I have to hold on cause it feels like it's going to tip over, but it's not (I know that's a feeling I'll have to get used to very quick)...BUT my question is: I find it NOT AS SMOOTH as my stock Goldwing..IS THIS NORMAL??

thanks for any added responses!
Ronnie

Yes it is NORMAL. With 3 wheels in the ground its almost impossible to miss /go around most road Irregularities..ie; Pot holes, sunken man hole covers and construction/utility cuts.. Nature of the beast...When i get on my two wheeler i feel like by comparison i'm riding in a Caddy....

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

I would find a newly paved road and see if your wobble is still there.

A 2-wheeled Wing goes down 1 track, and the rider often looks for the smoothest route. However, a trike is different. It now has 3 tracks, and, when it comes to smoothness, 3 tracks is even worst then a car (2 tracks). You are probably experiencing all the imperfections of the road. For me, imperfections in the road might be best explained as lots of side flexing in my waist, shoulders, and arms. In other words, my upper body shifts from side to side on rough roads.

Fortunately, a RoadSmith has a longer wheel base and that greatly helps. To know that's true, ask a riding buddy who has a shorter trike if you can ride his.

 

[pcombe]

To be clear, Steering a trike is an exercise in push pull.

To be more comfortable in riding learn to lock the elbow you are pushing with to make steering less wearisome, should you come to a hard corner you may want to shift your butt on the seat ( like a snowmobile ) to plant your foot more solidly on the peg to handle the sensation of sliding off or tipping over?

Learn to look through a curve instead of concentrating on the road directly in front of you to avoid over correction, You may have noticed a two wheeler in a corner and a rider having to make allot of corrections in lean?
It tells me he isn't looking through the corner.

A mistake most people make with a trike Is lugging the engine.

( Keep your trike in gear where it is always pulling and it will reduce the sensation of head shake.)

Should you get head shake a touch of throttle or brake will stop it.
Try that and see if doesn't make a big difference, It's learning curve thing but is a telling difference in riding smoothness. :Coffee:

Should you continue to feel way more headshake than you think is normal take it back to your converter and ask him to check the torque on the stem nut, A trike has to have a greater torque on that nut than is recommended for a two wheeler.

For instance the book may recommend 40 lbs torque on the stem nut on my two wheeler, I might torque it to say 55 lbs? for a trike, a 15 lb. difference.
That is just a figure I pulled out of head but you get the picture.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

I would find a newly paved road and see if your wobble is still there.

A 2-wheeled Wing goes down 1 track, and the rider often looks for the smoothest route. However, a trike is different. It now has 3 tracks, and, when it comes to smoothness, 3 tracks is even worst then a car (2 tracks). You are probably experiencing all the imperfections of the road. For me, imperfections in the road might be best explained as lots of side flexing in my waist, shoulders, and arms. In other words, my upper body shifts from side to side on rough roads.

Fortunately, a RoadSmith has a longer wheel base and that greatly helps. To know that's true, ask a riding buddy who has a shorter trike if you can ride his.

After I wrote the above, try doing this test in your garage to see if what you are describing is normal. While standing next to the trike, put one hand on the hand bar, hand-grip, and the other on top of the passenger armrest, and push and pull to begin a gentle rocking of the Wing. If that rocking represents what you are describing, its normal.

 

[mhgoldwing]

I would find a newly paved road and see if your wobble is still there.

A 2-wheeled Wing goes down 1 track, and the rider often looks for the smoothest route. However, a trike is different. It now has 3 tracks, and, when it comes to smoothness, 3 tracks is even worst then a car (2 tracks). You are probably experiencing all the imperfections of the road. For me, imperfections in the road might be best explained as lots of side flexing in my waist, shoulders, and arms. In other words, my upper body shifts from side to side on rough roads.

Fortunately, a RoadSmith has a longer wheel base and that greatly helps. To know that's true, ask a riding buddy who has a shorter trike if you can ride his.

Totally agree! Plus, if you ride in the center of lane and the road has a high center due to car tracks on either side, the front wheel will "search" for stability and tends to wander. I generally try to ride to the left side of lane so front wheel is off the high center.

Also be sure you tire pressure is correct. RS recommends 28-30 psi in rears of OEM tires. If you're using an MPA or BT45 sportbike tire the pressure is normally 38-42 psi. The Avon Cobra trike tire recommends 40-42 psi.

If you're running the original type front tire the sidewall are too soft and the front will feel slightly mushy and the tire will wear out much faster than normal.

If all of the above is correct just give yourself time and relax. It takes 500-1,000 miles to get totally comfortable driving your new trike.

Relax - ride safe - have fun!!!

 

[Bronson512]

..............
A 2-wheeled Wing goes down 1 track, and the rider often looks for the smoothest route. However, a trike is different. It now has 3 tracks, and, when it comes to smoothness, 3 tracks is even worst then a car (2 tracks). You are probably experiencing all the imperfections of the road. For me, imperfections in the road might be best explained as lots of side flexing in my waist, shoulders, and arms. In other words, my upper body shifts from side to side on rough roads........

Very Well Put.

 

[cinjeff]

wobble

I don't know if this will help but I purchased a Goldwing 1500 Trike and it wobbled on right turns but not on left. I pulled the seat off and looked where the trike kit is joined to the bike and the right side nut connection had backed off. I tightened the nut and the wobble went away. It never returned however I traded it off for an 1800 with Roadsmith kit and never have had that wobble feeling again. Happy riding!!

 

[pcombe]

To be clear, Steering a trike is an exercise in push pull.

To be more comfortable in riding learn to lock the elbow you are pushing with to make steering less wearisome, should you come to a hard corner you may want to shift your butt on the seat ( like a snowmobile ) to plant your foot more solidly on the peg to handle the sensation of sliding off or tipping over?

Learn to look through a curve instead of concentrating on the road directly in front of you to avoid over correction, You may have noticed a two wheeler in a corner and a rider having to make allot of corrections in lean?
It tells me he isn't looking through the corner.

A mistake most people make with a trike Is lugging the engine.

( Keep your trike in gear where it is always pulling and it will reduce the sensation of head shake.)

Should you get head shake a touch of throttle or brake will stop it.
Try that and see if doesn't make a big difference, It's learning curve thing but is a telling difference in riding smoothness. :Coffee:

Should you continue to feel way more headshake than you think is normal take it back to your converter and ask him to check the torque on the stem nut, A trike has to have a greater torque on that nut than is recommended for a two wheeler.

For instance the book may recommend 40 lbs torque on the stem nut on my two wheeler, I might torque it to say 55 lbs? for a trike, a 15 lb. difference.
That is just a figure I pulled out of head but you get the picture.

I forgot to mention tire condition and proper inflation, proper inflation, proper inflation.
A trike doesn't need the side flex on a front tire the way a two wheeler does.

I run a rear tire THE EXACT SAME SIZE as my original front tire ( turned backward rotation ) at max inflation at it's a great way to do things.
I may get a slightly harsher ride but not enough to justify a loss in tire mileage.

Besides I pull at least 25,000 miles out of the tire.

As I said I don't require side flex and the rear tire has a harder rubber compound. Turning backward rotation gives me better traction on wet surfaces.

 

[W3JNP]

Like you I am fairly new to the three wheeled world with only about 3,500 miles on mine.

Early on I found I was over controlling the bike and was the cause of much of the "twitches". As described earlier the condition of the road can also be a big factor.

I found a nice straight stretch of freshly paved road and set the cruise control and then road for a short bit hands off. Amazingly the bike tracked nice and straight. When I came back the other direction hands on it wasn't as nice as I was the problem.

It really didn't take a long time to learn to relax and now the problem is a thing of the past. I'm sure you'll find the same the more you ride.

Enjoy your trike!

 

[paid4c4]

I have never rode a GW1800 on two wheels and had never been on a trike until I drove ours home after buying it. That said I do not feel any type of wobble. It is solid as a rock on city streets or at 80 MPH on the express way. Since I don't have comparisons I can't comment on feeling a wobble. Hope you get yours figured out.

Bill

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

It really didn't take a long time to learn to relax and now the problem is a thing of the past. I'm sure you'll find the same the more you ride.

Enjoy your trike!

The same is true for a 2-wheeled GL1800. I think most riders ride them like they are on a dirt bike. For me I find my ride more enjoyable if my hands are relaxed ... and even more relaxed in strong cross winds. In those, most riders will tense up; however, if they were to let go of their bars, they would be amazed at what happens. A GL1800 will fall into the wind, not away from it, and then straighten back up when the gust is gone. I'm sure most who read this will know what happens when a Wing begins to fall ... it tracks that way, as in turning into the wind. The gusts I am referring to a probably like 30-40mph. When I had a GL1500, it would do the same.

 

[Marc H]

First off i'm not normal.What I caught myself doing was tensing up and if your body shifts at all it turns the bars just enough to wiggle the trike especially easy to do in crosswinds.

 

[Bikerbozo]

What about adding a steering dampener?

 

[M2102]

Twitchy

I've pretty much got the twitchy part satisfied in my mind I have it accepted in my mind. Nature of the beast as it were. I have noticed that when I go to put feet on hiway pegs it tends to shift the direction I'm moving my feet to. Not to much but it's there. Wife smacked me in the back first time it happened with her on board. Now she's getting used to it.

 

[Trail Blazer]

hi Ronnie, I don't know what rake kit you have. my trike I had a 6 deg. rake kit install and it was Twitchy bad, it took me 15 to 20 miles to realize I was over steering. the more deg the rake kit the easier to over steer. I don't find mine twitchy any more I do get movement when road is not smooth,

 

[Burnerboy]

I have the 5.5 deg rake on my front end......

I'm beginning to get used to the wobble now as when i asked this question , i only rode it a few time(s)....

Now if this stupid snow would go away I can get out a practice more:xzqxz:

i hate to ride it with salt covering all the roads

Ronnie

 

[Gold Rush]

+1 !!

Ronnie that wobble is not normal. You've been around 1800s a long time so I'm sure you know what worn/loose head bearing can do. If the installer torqued the head bearing to Honda two wheel spec it is too loose and will definitely cause wobble. :xszpv: :xszpv:

 

[CrystalPistol]

My question is: Do all trikes ride kinda "wobbly"... I took to the trike like a fish in water, and totally enjoy riding it (I have maybe 200 miles on it since returned to me.) BUT it seems very wobbly (if that's the right word??) .. I did get the power steering rake kit added, and she steers great, w/o any hard work needed to steer it..

I can learn to live with that wobbly feeling if that is normal, and I'm finding myself going around corners with a smile on my face, but I have to hold on cause it feels like it's going to tip over, but it's not (I know that's a feeling I'll have to get used to very quick)...BUT my question is: I find it NOT AS SMOOTH as my stock Goldwing..IS THIS NORMAL??

"When" is it wobbly? At highway speed on a smooth highway is not normal. At low speed coming out of a paved over gravel base private driveway or when crossing RR tracks / pavement seams / etc at angles .... then it's normal.

Bike will ride smoother than a 3 wheeler as it uses one track and the only way it works as a vehicle is if it's "in balance" meaning the center of mass is always being pulled towards the contact center .... else it falls over.

Trikes don't lean and wheels don't follow same track so there are forces like bumps, etc .... that pull it right and left depending on which rear wheel encounters them .... like you steering that buggy at Walmart. At high speeds the wheels tend to smooth it out .... but at low speeds you feel it.

A buggy in front of Walmart has "casters" on the front, the wheel will turn. You'll notice that the wheel touches pavement behind the pivot of steering axis (an imaginary line drawn through the steering stem or pivot that continues to road or other surface). These casters have a lot of trail, which is why they will readily follow where the buggy wants to go. You don't steer the buggy by turning the casters, you steer it by applying pressure on the handle at back and as you know, they like to go down hill, not across hills or grade.

A motorcycle has this trail built in too, it works better for steering a bike with handle bars attached to the caster because a bike leans when it steers. Even then, trail, or more of it, slows steering response too, but it makes a bike easy to handle, if left as a bike.

When converted to a trike, now we are back like the buggy, we don't lean. We are however attempting to steer it with handlebars connected to the casters. As a caster, it likes to follow, not lead. Trikes do not lean, one does not countersteer to steer it. Lots of trail means a trike will want to always fall off to the crown of the roadway, it means that while you steer left in that left hand sweeper, centrepidal force tries to steer that same front caster straight off the road.

Grandpa's tractor was a "G" model John Deere, it had tricycle style wheel placement. It was much like our trikes with one exception, it had "0" (zero) trail. You look at it and the steering stem axis hits the road exactly where the front wheel does. No lead, no trail. It would go in a circle all day if you take your hands off the wheel after turning it, likewise, it was very easy for this fellow as an 8 year old to steer on the roughest farm road or across grandpa's corn or tobacco field with plows.

Stock, our Gold Wings have near 4.5 to 5 inches trail, the wheel touches the road that far behind the steering stem axis. The front fork tubes and steering stem are right about 30 degrees from verticle.

A rake kit adds 4.5 or 6 degrees to that through offset machining of the triple trees, so that instead of the steering stem and tubes being parallel, the tubes are 4.5 or 6 degrees skewed forwards. This additional rake swings the tubes forwards toward the front, towards the steering stem axis, and it reduces trail to nearer 2 - 2.5 inches, still leaving some trail.

This swinging of the tubes in an arc also will lower the front of the trike as they are swinging through an arc from 30 degrees to more like 34.5 or 36 degrees from verticle. This is why Champion includes fork extensions (they did with my 6 degree kit in 2004), why CSC includes longer tubes, and why Bud Redmon had custom extensions machined for his 1200 trike.

You do not want "0" trail, you want the front to want to straighten up somewhat, you just want to lessen effort required to point it the way you want it to go.

You do not want it to go past "0" trail and into a lead condition, as then the front wheel will want to either fall off to left or right side full lock .... just like your trike does now if you let it roll backwards with any speed. Very dangerous at 50+ mph.

All trike kits for the Gold Wing will derive the same benifit from a rake kit, a lighter steering effort and greater control of where the trike goes under road conditions, acceleration and cornering.