vwbug72501
700+ Posts
Check out the classifieds on www.thesamba.com. Lots of good deals on used parts. Lots of them out your way.
My Trike
- Thread starter grandpanystrom61
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #62
I did check out that link, and I do like the price of it.
I take it one can put on the oil filter adapter, so one has the external oil filter to change, but still run the oil cooler from the back of the fan shroud ?
Why run hoses from the oil filter to a cooler and fan if not needed. I do not see putting the cooler in front of the input air for the fan area a great idea, why, because we have hot oil being cooled by the air flow, which in turn would be warmer from passing over the cooler, so now the fan is taking in this warmer air to keep the heads cool.
Is it that big of a difference ? I mean that smaller oil cooler mounted across the opening of the fan, would it really heat up the air enough to effect the cooling of the engine ? It is a good area for air flow as the fan is pulling it across the oil cooler.
- Thread starter
- #63
That is so true, forgot about that section on the site. I do search out info over there, in fact that is what lead me here. Bug facts are strong over there, but trike facts, this is the place to be.
A trike tends to be a mash up of whatever works.
Being lightly loaded you can get away with a lot less efficient fan and cooler set up.
I also hang out at the samba some also. I don't get a lot of talk there. I suppose I am a little to far out there away from the norm for those guys.
Being lightly loaded you can get away with a lot less efficient fan and cooler set up.
I also hang out at the samba some also. I don't get a lot of talk there. I suppose I am a little to far out there away from the norm for those guys.
If you hook a cooler to the existing adapter then it will be regulated and operate more like the stock one because of the controll piston and spring set up in the case.
I would not add a filter in that adapter line. It is not going to do much there.
I would add a filter at the pump.
I would not add a filter in that adapter line. It is not going to do much there.
I would add a filter at the pump.
vwbug72501
700+ Posts
The original early model fan housing had the oil cooler inside the the housing where the hoses are coming out now. The air flow went through the cooler and then over the 3-4 cylinders. They used that setup from 1946 to 1972 in full bodied cars and vans and it worked. Like Rex said your engine is lightly loaded and out in the air. Putting the cooler in the fan airflow gives you airflow when idling and at low speeds without the need of the additional wiring, thermostat, and switches for an electric fan.
The VW fan moves a maximum flow around 1200 cfm at speed and probably about 700 cfm at idle. The oil cooler preheat won't be a problem. IMO.
- Thread starter
- #67
sorry, guess my thought one thing and I said another. Yes, I did mean to put the external oil filter at the oil pump with the adapter plate. I seen one full kit, it was the filter adapter with ports for the external cooler.
I just wanted to see if it was a good idea. It would look cleaner I think if I did have the oil cooler off the back of the fan shroud using the adapter that someone installed.
Than up at the oil pump I can put the external oil filter, yes it hit me, the aftermarket oil cooler kit runs throw the filter first to clean the oil before going into cooler, this is a good method.
Will my idea still provide clean oil to the cooler, wow, if I am putting on an external oil filter, and it does not have one now, than I will be doing better than stock condition. Wow to early, I need to wake up, coffee time.
I just wanted to see if it was a good idea. It would look cleaner I think if I did have the oil cooler off the back of the fan shroud using the adapter that someone installed.
Than up at the oil pump I can put the external oil filter, yes it hit me, the aftermarket oil cooler kit runs throw the filter first to clean the oil before going into cooler, this is a good method.
Will my idea still provide clean oil to the cooler, wow, if I am putting on an external oil filter, and it does not have one now, than I will be doing better than stock condition. Wow to early, I need to wake up, coffee time.
- Thread starter
- #68
oil temp.
good day, so oil temperature sensor location, what is the best place for it to be on the engine?
I do have the dual relief port block and currently have the sensor at the rear port near #4 cylinder.
I will check the wiring again, verify it is the right sensor for the VDO gauge, but it does not really work correctly.
It takes some time before any needle movement occurs, and than it barely gets past 120 degrees.
I have to be honest, this side of the VW I do not know. I was 16 years old when I ran my first bug into the ground. Later in life I had the old rag top bug, wow, should have kept it, but young families do what they must to survive.
This is the most I have dove into a VW engine, electrical, and have learned about them and some of their design's.
I just started wondering if I choose the right place for the temp senor.:xzqxz:
good day, so oil temperature sensor location, what is the best place for it to be on the engine?
I do have the dual relief port block and currently have the sensor at the rear port near #4 cylinder.
I will check the wiring again, verify it is the right sensor for the VDO gauge, but it does not really work correctly.
It takes some time before any needle movement occurs, and than it barely gets past 120 degrees.
I have to be honest, this side of the VW I do not know. I was 16 years old when I ran my first bug into the ground. Later in life I had the old rag top bug, wow, should have kept it, but young families do what they must to survive.
This is the most I have dove into a VW engine, electrical, and have learned about them and some of their design's.
I just started wondering if I choose the right place for the temp senor.:xzqxz:
The vw engineers assumed hot oil equals lower pressure. So the oil cooler flow is controlled by a pressure spring. It does NOT turn off the flow this direction and then turn on flow to the other direction. The path to the cooler just opens and it becomes the path of least resistance. If you add too much resistance to the cooler path then oil will just go the other way around. So don't put the filter on the adapter hoses....cooler only.
So you are already talking about the filter on the oil pump.
There are several set ups for doing this. Be careful with what you choose. It is easy to do this wrong.
Almost all of the pump covers with a single out fitting require internal machine work...ie...blocking passages for the re-direct. Then an oil entry point machined into the case and back into the galley.
A large amount of the made in China two port (in out) covers are either machined wrong or have no instruction about the additional machine work needed.
The filter pump covers....some are good....large amounts of them are not.
The only place I have direct experience with that makes the modifications correctly is cb performance. They have complete pumps (not just a cover plate) that are not a stock type pump. It is made/machined in a way to reduce or eliminate the other machine work needed to work.
So you are already talking about the filter on the oil pump.
There are several set ups for doing this. Be careful with what you choose. It is easy to do this wrong.
Almost all of the pump covers with a single out fitting require internal machine work...ie...blocking passages for the re-direct. Then an oil entry point machined into the case and back into the galley.
A large amount of the made in China two port (in out) covers are either machined wrong or have no instruction about the additional machine work needed.
The filter pump covers....some are good....large amounts of them are not.
The only place I have direct experience with that makes the modifications correctly is cb performance. They have complete pumps (not just a cover plate) that are not a stock type pump. It is made/machined in a way to reduce or eliminate the other machine work needed to work.
The place you have your oil temp is not a good flow hot spot. Anywhere is better than nowhere. The sump is not the best place but some report good results from tapping into the sump plate near the oil pick up tube. Most will say that in the oil passage right before the bearings is the ideal spot. As in the oil line returning to the engine from an external cooler or filter.
- Thread starter
- #71
hummm
one problem with doing to many gauges at once, one can get lost. So the sensor is correct for the gauge, but I some how over looked the words " use 14 gauge wire for the isolated ground " and I do think it was 16 gauge wire I used.
than a bit later in small print I read "many just mount the sensor in the oil drain plug location, as they are threaded the same."
so I can not put the current sensor in line of the return cooled oil from the cooler, okay I could if I a T type block, on port to mount the sensor, and the other two would be for the flow of oil, have to be the same size as the oil hose line, 1/2 inch I believe.
I do think I will put the temp. sensor in the drain plug location, should that not give the temp of the cooled oil after it is re introduced to the engine from the cooler ? maybe a bit warmer than that coming right out of the cooler, but still a good over all idea of what the oil temp. is ?
Reading the link about rebuilding the engine, I will be ready when it is my turn at it.
one problem with doing to many gauges at once, one can get lost. So the sensor is correct for the gauge, but I some how over looked the words " use 14 gauge wire for the isolated ground " and I do think it was 16 gauge wire I used.
than a bit later in small print I read "many just mount the sensor in the oil drain plug location, as they are threaded the same."
so I can not put the current sensor in line of the return cooled oil from the cooler, okay I could if I a T type block, on port to mount the sensor, and the other two would be for the flow of oil, have to be the same size as the oil hose line, 1/2 inch I believe.
I do think I will put the temp. sensor in the drain plug location, should that not give the temp of the cooled oil after it is re introduced to the engine from the cooler ? maybe a bit warmer than that coming right out of the cooler, but still a good over all idea of what the oil temp. is ?
Reading the link about rebuilding the engine, I will be ready when it is my turn at it.
- Thread starter
- #72
So than, the idea of external oil filter is something that is best done when the engine is getting rebuilt, correct ?
A lot to find out and think about before the rebuilding phase.
A lot to find out and think about before the rebuilding phase.
A true full flow should be done with engine apart.
There are some good filter pumps out there. But there are so many bad ones that they all get the bad rep. Finding one that is made well and correctly is difficult.
The oil pump can be pulled out of an assembled engine. It is not fun to do. Then the filter pump and pump cover can be installed.
The maxi pump is the only one I have experienced with.
This is just an example. Do not rush out and buy this exact part thinking I told you to.
There are some good filter pumps out there. But there are so many bad ones that they all get the bad rep. Finding one that is made well and correctly is difficult.
The oil pump can be pulled out of an assembled engine. It is not fun to do. Then the filter pump and pump cover can be installed.
The maxi pump is the only one I have experienced with.
This is just an example. Do not rush out and buy this exact part thinking I told you to.
John Luciano
One Of The Origionals
:taz:Anyone have a mid engine VW trike ? I saw one and loved it ,,,,
- Thread starter
- #75
at the top of this forums post list, there are a few sticky threads, the one titled "Anyone Else" by DeathbySnuSnu, does shoe his mid mount engine on the trike he built. Very nice looking machine he has, and he is loaded with the upgrades and what it takes to get the job done.
He covers a lot in "how to build a trike" or is " so you want to build a trike" another sticky thread.
:clapping:
- Thread starter
- #76
not knowing does su#$
Good morning to everyone. Not knowing all the history of a motor, well that leads to a lot of things, as you fix that and than it means this and than that, LOL
So not knowing how long or how often this motor was ran with out a oil cooler in it, well not good, and I can not one would rebuild a motor and not put it in. A thought hit me, what if an external one was mounted and got damaged, than it would be removed.
Not sure, so just have to accept that the engine needs to be rebuilt, at least removed and cracked open to see what and how good of condition everything is, this part sucks as it could be all good, and than it could be in a condition of major rebuild.
I will for sure do a thread about it, mainly so I can be watched and corrected when needed. This will be my first VW engine rebuild in my life. A engine is a engine right, not always, German's did things in a way that some say is far superior to American designs. Each to their own, I just need to be able to understand it all, and read a lot more, get that advice of where to get parts and good service, knowledgeable part houses are important to me.
For now, just going to do the bushings on the IRS, new wheel bearings and seals on the rear, set the torsion and spring plates correctly, new air shocks, and than I will do the T square on the floor and align the rear tracking, at least make sure all is aligned. Oh yeah, get that oil cooler installed first thing, than do the rest of the work so I can ride this summer and see what this trike is about. I know it is a lot to do a engine, not all can do it, but I have done other motors, so this will just be a new adventure for me, but the satisfaction of it all is well worth the effort, at least for me.
Thank you to very one for their inputs.
Good morning to everyone. Not knowing all the history of a motor, well that leads to a lot of things, as you fix that and than it means this and than that, LOL
So not knowing how long or how often this motor was ran with out a oil cooler in it, well not good, and I can not one would rebuild a motor and not put it in. A thought hit me, what if an external one was mounted and got damaged, than it would be removed.
Not sure, so just have to accept that the engine needs to be rebuilt, at least removed and cracked open to see what and how good of condition everything is, this part sucks as it could be all good, and than it could be in a condition of major rebuild.
I will for sure do a thread about it, mainly so I can be watched and corrected when needed. This will be my first VW engine rebuild in my life. A engine is a engine right, not always, German's did things in a way that some say is far superior to American designs. Each to their own, I just need to be able to understand it all, and read a lot more, get that advice of where to get parts and good service, knowledgeable part houses are important to me.
For now, just going to do the bushings on the IRS, new wheel bearings and seals on the rear, set the torsion and spring plates correctly, new air shocks, and than I will do the T square on the floor and align the rear tracking, at least make sure all is aligned. Oh yeah, get that oil cooler installed first thing, than do the rest of the work so I can ride this summer and see what this trike is about. I know it is a lot to do a engine, not all can do it, but I have done other motors, so this will just be a new adventure for me, but the satisfaction of it all is well worth the effort, at least for me.
Thank you to very one for their inputs.
vwbug72501
700+ Posts
:mob: SLIPPERY SLOPE WARNING!!! :mob:
VW engines are very tough int heir stock and near stock states. They can also become Money Pits when you get into them. The first question you want to ask yourself is "Do I want to build or ride?
Take a look at the Need VW type3 DP 1600 heads thread. He started with a definite problem and carefully examined until he found and repaired just what he needed to get riding. Now, he won't be riding cross country but he will be riding and enjoying until he gets more VW experience.
"An engine is an engine", true, but rebuilding a VW aircooled engine is NOT the same as rebuilding a small block Chevy! There is a set of specialized tools ( not necessarily expensive) and techniques that are required to do more than routine maintenance on the engine. Aircooled VWs have a cult following that are very helpful and willing to help Newbies. My recommendation is to look up you nearest VW club(s) and make contact with them. The dune buggy and performance crowd will be a vast cache of information and resources for you. There should be a lot of that activity in your area and West. Go to the VW shows and swap meets and meet these folks.
There is some specialized machining that may need to be done after you split the cases and most regular engine shops won't have the tooling for VWs. The club people can recommend good sources for that expertise.
I've been messing with VWs since the '70s and have run some pretty raggedy VWs longer than expected by driving a weak engine sensibly (not beating to death) until a rebuild /replacement was available. Learned most of the tricks from "old timers" in the cult. Now, I are one"!!! LOL.
As for the oil pressure and temperature worries, If you have the stock VW oil pressure "idiot light" and it doesn't come on steady when hot and idling, you're probably OK. Flickering when hot and idling indicates wrong weight oil or worn bearings (rebuild coming). I run 20-w-50 in hot weather. Be careful running the temp sensor in the drain plug hole as it will be susceptible to road hazards.
Looks like you've got a very nice trike there. Take your time and don't get overwhelmed with real or imagined problems and you'll probably be OK. Probably a good idea to have a backup recovery plan for a while as you get more comfortable with your new ride.
VW engines are very tough int heir stock and near stock states. They can also become Money Pits when you get into them. The first question you want to ask yourself is "Do I want to build or ride?
Take a look at the Need VW type3 DP 1600 heads thread. He started with a definite problem and carefully examined until he found and repaired just what he needed to get riding. Now, he won't be riding cross country but he will be riding and enjoying until he gets more VW experience.
"An engine is an engine", true, but rebuilding a VW aircooled engine is NOT the same as rebuilding a small block Chevy! There is a set of specialized tools ( not necessarily expensive) and techniques that are required to do more than routine maintenance on the engine. Aircooled VWs have a cult following that are very helpful and willing to help Newbies. My recommendation is to look up you nearest VW club(s) and make contact with them. The dune buggy and performance crowd will be a vast cache of information and resources for you. There should be a lot of that activity in your area and West. Go to the VW shows and swap meets and meet these folks.
There is some specialized machining that may need to be done after you split the cases and most regular engine shops won't have the tooling for VWs. The club people can recommend good sources for that expertise.
I've been messing with VWs since the '70s and have run some pretty raggedy VWs longer than expected by driving a weak engine sensibly (not beating to death) until a rebuild /replacement was available. Learned most of the tricks from "old timers" in the cult. Now, I are one"!!! LOL.
As for the oil pressure and temperature worries, If you have the stock VW oil pressure "idiot light" and it doesn't come on steady when hot and idling, you're probably OK. Flickering when hot and idling indicates wrong weight oil or worn bearings (rebuild coming). I run 20-w-50 in hot weather. Be careful running the temp sensor in the drain plug hole as it will be susceptible to road hazards.
Looks like you've got a very nice trike there. Take your time and don't get overwhelmed with real or imagined problems and you'll probably be OK. Probably a good idea to have a backup recovery plan for a while as you get more comfortable with your new ride.
- Thread starter
- #78
I checked out the cbperformance.com site, and of course I found a few things to order, but nothing for the motor yet, but did like a lot of what I read and looked over. Thanks Rex for that tip, and all the others.
Tom, I have seen a few crazy rebuild video's, and even a thread on samba, basically learning what one should not do when rebuilding a VW engine. I need to find this web page I read, older mechanic guy, really into the engine and how all works, I never got to read his rebuild section. I know there are suppose to be a few good books out there also.
I do want to ride, and I will soon, as long as she hold up, just hoping getting a few things taken care of, a little love and grandpa riding will get me a long way for now. Like you said, build up that knowledge and list of resources to get the job done, or the one to pay to do the work, but I do like doing the work, no I do not enjoy the dirty hands and smell of oil, but I know my abilities and this is one I can do, as you said Tom, once I have things all together and ready for it.
It does stink that I will have to crack it open in order to discover if all is stock or what, but sounds like the name of the game. Thank you for all the advice and tips everyone, I am sure more are to come.
Tom, I have seen a few crazy rebuild video's, and even a thread on samba, basically learning what one should not do when rebuilding a VW engine. I need to find this web page I read, older mechanic guy, really into the engine and how all works, I never got to read his rebuild section. I know there are suppose to be a few good books out there also.
I do want to ride, and I will soon, as long as she hold up, just hoping getting a few things taken care of, a little love and grandpa riding will get me a long way for now. Like you said, build up that knowledge and list of resources to get the job done, or the one to pay to do the work, but I do like doing the work, no I do not enjoy the dirty hands and smell of oil, but I know my abilities and this is one I can do, as you said Tom, once I have things all together and ready for it.
It does stink that I will have to crack it open in order to discover if all is stock or what, but sounds like the name of the game. Thank you for all the advice and tips everyone, I am sure more are to come.
I am sorry if I sound all doom and gloom.
But I am not. I am just naming things to look at and consider.
You have a lot of good stuff to work with and as a whole....A good looking scooter it is all in.
So what would I do?
Compression seems a little wonky but is not crazy low.....run it.
Oil pressure ok? 10 psi per 1000 rpm. Increase/decrease viscosity untill it is that.
Put some kind of cooler on there. It probably is ok. It takes an extended highway run to get it hot. Head temp and oil temp does not relate to each other.
Do the bushings/bearing/alignment of the rear.
Put large slaves in the back drums.
As long as the rubber is good....ride it for a season.
I tell ya....Just looking at the engine....It is an assembled engine.....has the kads and other goodies....I don't think it is stock at all. Not a monster but I would not be surprised if it was a 1776 to an 1915cc over bore motor.
It is very nice. Fix what you have too and ride it. Upgrade later if things work now.
But I am not. I am just naming things to look at and consider.
You have a lot of good stuff to work with and as a whole....A good looking scooter it is all in.
So what would I do?
Compression seems a little wonky but is not crazy low.....run it.
Oil pressure ok? 10 psi per 1000 rpm. Increase/decrease viscosity untill it is that.
Put some kind of cooler on there. It probably is ok. It takes an extended highway run to get it hot. Head temp and oil temp does not relate to each other.
Do the bushings/bearing/alignment of the rear.
Put large slaves in the back drums.
As long as the rubber is good....ride it for a season.
I tell ya....Just looking at the engine....It is an assembled engine.....has the kads and other goodies....I don't think it is stock at all. Not a monster but I would not be surprised if it was a 1776 to an 1915cc over bore motor.
It is very nice. Fix what you have too and ride it. Upgrade later if things work now.
And...
John at aircooled.net has some good tech articles and I trust him more than cb performance. Nice guy and recommends stuff that works
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-technical-articles/
John at aircooled.net has some good tech articles and I trust him more than cb performance. Nice guy and recommends stuff that works
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-technical-articles/
- Thread starter
- #81
again, thank you
I am so thankful for you links and tips Rex, I just ordered some bushings for the IRS rebuild for now.
Spent the morning reading and learning more. Than I had went over to samba to look up some articles about the pressure relief valve.
I got more of an education than I expected, read a lot of questions and answers, took piecing together this and that to figure out what might be going on with my engine.
First off, when I decided to put the temp. sensor in place of the plug to the pressure relief valve, well it dropped out and I could not tell how it went back in, flat side first with the cup side facing the spring is what I gathered as the proper way it sits. The control valve is same, flat side first with the cup side facing the spring.
The diagrams I looked over were not 100% the engine and oil route, so a question ?
Does the control valve actually control the flow of oil through the stock cooler that is mounted in the fan shroud, or is the oil always flowing through the cooler ?
Now if I have the, lost the name, adapter plate that covers the original cooler mount, for the external cooler, the bottom line out of the fan shroud is the supply line of oil ??
and than the top port would be the return line from the external cooler ?
I also had water drain out of the valve covers when I had checked my valve clearances the other day, but no sign of water in the oil I drained out of the engine. And the white oil/water film was present, really got me wondering how water got in.
My mind told me condensation, water from the air. Still not sure where it came from, but today I read about how if the pressure relief valve spring is to strong, keeping the valve closed, than a back up of condensation can occur and as the engine and oil heats up this turns to steam and increased pressure can cause the valve to open. This makes me think than all that crude goes into the oil pan.
regardless, I checked more as I read and it is a long chromed spring that takes a lot of strength and pressure against to thread in the plug or sensor, they both are the same length, so as I read I found the chromed spring is aftermarket spring to improve oil pressure, basically stronger than stock so it keeps the pressure relief valve closed to long, and that is not stock operation.
So earlier I took off the hoses and removed the breather box to see what it looked like inside, and of course clean it up, have new hose on the way.
than I had to look inside the box.
So the real question is, does this crude come from the valve covers up into the breather box, or does it come from the breather box down into the valve covers ?
Yes the oil fill tube has the vent port and the hose ran from there to the breather box, so is this the path it takes to enter the breather box to accumulate and than it drains down into the valve cover's ??? lost on this one.
I do know I spent some time cleaning the extension tube of the fill tube, the vent port was just full of the white oil/water crude, or is just the foam created by water/oil and heat ?
I did not look for the sensor adapter that would allow it to be inline to the oil cooler, not yet, but if it is not available, I think I can make it, 1/2" dia hole drilled thru the block, tape threads for the nipples, come down center from the side drilling and tapping the sensor port. In line sensor mounting block, or is the control valve plug the better location ?
I am so thankful for you links and tips Rex, I just ordered some bushings for the IRS rebuild for now.
Spent the morning reading and learning more. Than I had went over to samba to look up some articles about the pressure relief valve.
I got more of an education than I expected, read a lot of questions and answers, took piecing together this and that to figure out what might be going on with my engine.
First off, when I decided to put the temp. sensor in place of the plug to the pressure relief valve, well it dropped out and I could not tell how it went back in, flat side first with the cup side facing the spring is what I gathered as the proper way it sits. The control valve is same, flat side first with the cup side facing the spring.
The diagrams I looked over were not 100% the engine and oil route, so a question ?
Does the control valve actually control the flow of oil through the stock cooler that is mounted in the fan shroud, or is the oil always flowing through the cooler ?
Now if I have the, lost the name, adapter plate that covers the original cooler mount, for the external cooler, the bottom line out of the fan shroud is the supply line of oil ??
and than the top port would be the return line from the external cooler ?
I also had water drain out of the valve covers when I had checked my valve clearances the other day, but no sign of water in the oil I drained out of the engine. And the white oil/water film was present, really got me wondering how water got in.
My mind told me condensation, water from the air. Still not sure where it came from, but today I read about how if the pressure relief valve spring is to strong, keeping the valve closed, than a back up of condensation can occur and as the engine and oil heats up this turns to steam and increased pressure can cause the valve to open. This makes me think than all that crude goes into the oil pan.
regardless, I checked more as I read and it is a long chromed spring that takes a lot of strength and pressure against to thread in the plug or sensor, they both are the same length, so as I read I found the chromed spring is aftermarket spring to improve oil pressure, basically stronger than stock so it keeps the pressure relief valve closed to long, and that is not stock operation.
So earlier I took off the hoses and removed the breather box to see what it looked like inside, and of course clean it up, have new hose on the way.
than I had to look inside the box.
So the real question is, does this crude come from the valve covers up into the breather box, or does it come from the breather box down into the valve covers ?
Yes the oil fill tube has the vent port and the hose ran from there to the breather box, so is this the path it takes to enter the breather box to accumulate and than it drains down into the valve cover's ??? lost on this one.
I do know I spent some time cleaning the extension tube of the fill tube, the vent port was just full of the white oil/water crude, or is just the foam created by water/oil and heat ?
I did not look for the sensor adapter that would allow it to be inline to the oil cooler, not yet, but if it is not available, I think I can make it, 1/2" dia hole drilled thru the block, tape threads for the nipples, come down center from the side drilling and tapping the sensor port. In line sensor mounting block, or is the control valve plug the better location ?
Jack Klarich
Guest
I'm not familiar with a VW engine oiling system
What I do know is an internal combustion engine will have some moisture in the oil especially during short runs
The oil does not get hot enough to burn off all the condensation, 1 by product of combustion
The oil mist should rise to a higher point in the engine, it is lighter than the moisture IMO
What I do know is an internal combustion engine will have some moisture in the oil especially during short runs
The oil does not get hot enough to burn off all the condensation, 1 by product of combustion
The oil mist should rise to a higher point in the engine, it is lighter than the moisture IMO
Ok then.....Yes the piston and spring does control oil flow to the stock cooler. But it does it in an odd way. It does not turn on and turn off flow like you want to think of it doing. It is more of a pressure bypass.....sorta.... It creates a path of least resistance. The cooler is not turned off but instead there is no flow because there is an easier way open or closed.
All this flow controll is done with oil pressure. If you change the spring or do something that changes the oil pressure you have also altered the functionality of the stock cooler set up.
So always run the stock springs with the stock cooler or a cooler hooked to the stock location.
Now once you do the full flow mods AND no longer use the stock cooler porting at all then you can play with the springs.
But you can full flow and also use the stock cooler at the same time with stock springs (or stock replacements).
All this flow controll is done with oil pressure. If you change the spring or do something that changes the oil pressure you have also altered the functionality of the stock cooler set up.
So always run the stock springs with the stock cooler or a cooler hooked to the stock location.
Now once you do the full flow mods AND no longer use the stock cooler porting at all then you can play with the springs.
But you can full flow and also use the stock cooler at the same time with stock springs (or stock replacements).
Water poured out?
Condensation does happen. A lot of short runs never getting to full temp plus the humidity does sweat up and make the milky mess all over the place. But seldom enough water to pour out.
I want to think more of rain and an exposed engine to get enough water to pour out.
Excessive oil pressure would make heat. And that would likely evaporate the water. I have overheated oil to the point of making foam that was simular to what you have. But yours does look more like water to me.
Condensation does happen. A lot of short runs never getting to full temp plus the humidity does sweat up and make the milky mess all over the place. But seldom enough water to pour out.
I want to think more of rain and an exposed engine to get enough water to pour out.
Excessive oil pressure would make heat. And that would likely evaporate the water. I have overheated oil to the point of making foam that was simular to what you have. But yours does look more like water to me.
And for what is in and out.
- Thread starter
- #86
Not I see how that much water could have built up inside of the engine, but the damp air filter from rain, the trike sat out covered in the drive way all last year, brought it back into the garage this fall, or told the wife I was selling it.
Short runs, really all I have done with it. Once I got the temp. tank installed I would run it for 15 minutes a day, think I got 4 days in before I realized I lost to much fuel, and that oil stank bad.
Is there a flush idea, or just do a fill with 5/30 w for a run, than drain it out good, and refill with the proper oil, or just put in the better oil and run for 3,000 miles or less before the next oil change ?
Cooler oil I am sure will make a difference, but we will find out once all is as it should be, okay I hope all is good and works out for the best, at least long enough for me to figure a few other things out.
Short runs, really all I have done with it. Once I got the temp. tank installed I would run it for 15 minutes a day, think I got 4 days in before I realized I lost to much fuel, and that oil stank bad.
Is there a flush idea, or just do a fill with 5/30 w for a run, than drain it out good, and refill with the proper oil, or just put in the better oil and run for 3,000 miles or less before the next oil change ?
Cooler oil I am sure will make a difference, but we will find out once all is as it should be, okay I hope all is good and works out for the best, at least long enough for me to figure a few other things out.
- Thread starter
- #87
bearings
Good day to everyone, so I got into the bearings of the right side. Not super worn, but inner bearing is worn more, but that sleeve spacer that the axle slides in, well I can see wear on the axle shaft, kind a grooved by the long sleeve spacer.
I have to clean up some for pic's, but I started the left side last night, out bearing was worn into two pieces, still at it, but hope to compare ware.
Grease was old, some hardened up, and seals a bit rusted in place, no paper gasket was used on the bearing hubs, but know I do know why the left side camber was so off.
I do wonder about the drive axles and CV joints, at least I would think one should clean out old grease and re pack the with new grease ? wrong or right......... or does one just get new drive axles and CV joints together and replace the old that way ?
I do have things to get done today, no I have not ordered any bearings or drive shafts yet, not sure what I got or need yet. So much fun, sure do hope all have a wonderful day today..
Good day to everyone, so I got into the bearings of the right side. Not super worn, but inner bearing is worn more, but that sleeve spacer that the axle slides in, well I can see wear on the axle shaft, kind a grooved by the long sleeve spacer.
I have to clean up some for pic's, but I started the left side last night, out bearing was worn into two pieces, still at it, but hope to compare ware.
Grease was old, some hardened up, and seals a bit rusted in place, no paper gasket was used on the bearing hubs, but know I do know why the left side camber was so off.
I do wonder about the drive axles and CV joints, at least I would think one should clean out old grease and re pack the with new grease ? wrong or right......... or does one just get new drive axles and CV joints together and replace the old that way ?
I do have things to get done today, no I have not ordered any bearings or drive shafts yet, not sure what I got or need yet. So much fun, sure do hope all have a wonderful day today..
If I remember correctly....the center area of the shaft is undercut a bit. The space sleeve does not fit tight on shaft but sandwiches between the two bearings.
The area of the shaft where the bearing rides need to be a snug fit. Also the bores the bearings fit need to be snug. As in not ovaled out from a spinning race. Closely check that one with the split race.
Chances are that it has been run with the brake drums loose or not fully tight. Them things are supposed to be mega tight... as in special tools kinda tight.
The area of the shaft where the bearing rides need to be a snug fit. Also the bores the bearings fit need to be snug. As in not ovaled out from a spinning race. Closely check that one with the split race.
Chances are that it has been run with the brake drums loose or not fully tight. Them things are supposed to be mega tight... as in special tools kinda tight.
- Thread starter
- #89
I do have one last seal to remove, a little more clean up, than really look over the clean parts for the excessive wear.
Do not forget the drums, probably still good, but all should be checked out.
Oh yes, I discovered yesterday I get to get new tires, not that I want to spend the money, but the old tires sat to long, weather cracked, flat spots, and of course one does have excessive wear.
For now, the oil cooler will be mounted up under the fiber glass body, out of the way, but in the way of air flow so it can do it's job and cool the oil.
Now I have decided to change exhaust pipes eventually, I prefer each side to have its own exhaust pipe, leaves center of engine open, which I want, and than one can mount the oil cooler with the fan mounted off the back of the fiberglass body, were the exhaust pipe used to be......... good idea or bad one...... I see it as about the only place for it, remember they are not small units and take up space.
Or would one run the cooler all the way up front, behind the forks, would all the oil line cause issues, yes volume of oil would increase, but can the oil pump handle moving that extra oil that long of a distance ?
Next check, a fun one, need to inspect and check clearance of the oil pump, and hope I can figure out what size it is.
Thank you everyone, I really did need the help, and I am doing it with confidence. This is a good thing.
Do not forget the drums, probably still good, but all should be checked out.
Oh yes, I discovered yesterday I get to get new tires, not that I want to spend the money, but the old tires sat to long, weather cracked, flat spots, and of course one does have excessive wear.
For now, the oil cooler will be mounted up under the fiber glass body, out of the way, but in the way of air flow so it can do it's job and cool the oil.
Now I have decided to change exhaust pipes eventually, I prefer each side to have its own exhaust pipe, leaves center of engine open, which I want, and than one can mount the oil cooler with the fan mounted off the back of the fiberglass body, were the exhaust pipe used to be......... good idea or bad one...... I see it as about the only place for it, remember they are not small units and take up space.
Or would one run the cooler all the way up front, behind the forks, would all the oil line cause issues, yes volume of oil would increase, but can the oil pump handle moving that extra oil that long of a distance ?
Next check, a fun one, need to inspect and check clearance of the oil pump, and hope I can figure out what size it is.
Thank you everyone, I really did need the help, and I am doing it with confidence. This is a good thing.
vwbug72501
700+ Posts
Good work so far!
My $.02 on the oil cooler: Get a 4 or 6 tube cooler with out a fan and mount it in front of the engine fan opening in the shroud. I ran this configuration on multiple vehicles for many thousands of miles for many years and never had a problem. The VW engine was designed to come out easily as a unit by disconnecting a couple of cables, hoses, and wires, and removing 4 bolts. By mounting the oil cooler on the shroud this functionality is retained. Mounting at the rear on the body might be in a low air flow vacuum area (ever notice how dust collects on the back of an SUV?). Mounting it up front adds additional hose length / oil volume issues and points of failure. An electric fan is one more thing to fail.
Ther are 2 different style oil pumps, one for "flat" cam gears and the other for "dished" cam gears. The only way that i know to determine what you have installed on a modified engine (if you didn't build it or see it built yourself) is to pull the oil pump and look at the face of the cam gear. Here is a Samba post discussion about oil pump removal and some tips: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/archive/index.php/o-t--t-363360--.html
There are youtube videos that show the puller and how it works. One of those inexpensive specialty tools that I mentioned in an earlier post.
My $.02 on the oil cooler: Get a 4 or 6 tube cooler with out a fan and mount it in front of the engine fan opening in the shroud. I ran this configuration on multiple vehicles for many thousands of miles for many years and never had a problem. The VW engine was designed to come out easily as a unit by disconnecting a couple of cables, hoses, and wires, and removing 4 bolts. By mounting the oil cooler on the shroud this functionality is retained. Mounting at the rear on the body might be in a low air flow vacuum area (ever notice how dust collects on the back of an SUV?). Mounting it up front adds additional hose length / oil volume issues and points of failure. An electric fan is one more thing to fail.
Ther are 2 different style oil pumps, one for "flat" cam gears and the other for "dished" cam gears. The only way that i know to determine what you have installed on a modified engine (if you didn't build it or see it built yourself) is to pull the oil pump and look at the face of the cam gear. Here is a Samba post discussion about oil pump removal and some tips: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/archive/index.php/o-t--t-363360--.html
There are youtube videos that show the puller and how it works. One of those inexpensive specialty tools that I mentioned in an earlier post.
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