My Tow-Pac 14" InstaTrike Install on Ultra Classic Harley

[HarleyBob]

That's a hunk of junk! What kit is that? Who makes it? Please Tell us it could save someone from getting hurt or killed! U bolts will slide!

Looks like a Richland Roadster.I different thought process for suspension than any other.The axle is welded solid to the frame and the brackets run across the frame are designed to flex.They used to claim you could ride with only 1 side on if you really wanted to.

I know a guy who has one. He told me it took a lot of time to get the feel of riding it.

He told me that he has two white lights he didn't like and you have to remove the kickstand. He said riding it reminded him of riding in a boat because the back end would move around. So I decided agents that one.

 

[Marc H]

I think many companies including some of the more known brands use U bolts to fasten the attaching plates to the bike.The difference being as you have pointed out is they attach to the frame where this one uses the crash bars.Perodic hardware checks and proper install are important to prevent damage to even the frame area on those machines.Attachment points and methods are tuff with outrigger kits and i don't think I have seen the perfect one yet.

 

[dadztoy]

Like I said in previous posts - they are all compromises so you have to choose which one you want based upon your own criteria...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

OK Lets Get Back On Subject!

{My Tow-Pac 14" InstaTrike Install on Ultra Classic Harley}

My Tow-Pac 14" InstaTrike Install on Ultra Classic Harley

Rainy and nasty today. So I headed to town to get the last few things I will need when the painter calls me to bring my bike to his place for the final install!

First the back frame cover is held on by double side tape no bolts or screws.



So I got some at the auto parts store.



If the tape should fail and it should not, then this trailer ball will keep it on the bike.

 

[HarleyBob]

Denis, the painter asked me to get some of this adhesive loom. It has one side that will stick to the underside of the fenders to hold the wires for the tail lights! I have some other stickers that has a side that sticks and you put a tie wrap in. I will use those as well. He told me this is the best. I got 6 ft. at the Harley Shop. The part that is red is the tape you remove to expose the glue side. After cleaning the place you want to stick it to with rubbing alcohol, you just push it in place.

 

[HarleyBob]

THE FINAL INSTALL!

I just got a call from Denis, parts are ready so I'm heading over there in the morning and we will install them! There are two fender "T"bars not shone in this picture, That bolt to the inside of the fenders and go through the big holes and bolt to the frame.

Finally!

I will take pictures and post them here!

 

[bknsaddle]

Wow! That looks GREAT! :clapping:

 

[HarleyBob]

THE FINAL INSTALL!

I just got a call from Denis, parts are ready so I'm heading over there in the morning and we will install them! There are two fender "T"bars not shone in this picture, That bolt to the inside of the fenders and go through the big holes and bolt to the frame.

Finally!

I will take pictures and post them here!

View attachment 52853

Weather looks good so it's a GO for 9 A.M. in the morning!

 

[dadztoy]

Looks great Bob - can't wait to see the finished product... FWIW, I drilled and tapped in 4 places with 6/32 BHMS for my frame cover... I like the ability to have it removable for various reasons... Wire loom is a good idea... I used Panduit cable tie mounts to secure my wiring... Very aggressive mounts and haven't had one come off yet... Too cold to ride here now and getting colder next week... Looks like it's going to be a while before I get back on the bike...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Well the weather was not Good!!! We got one fender on, bags off, will have to pull tire next to wire up tail light!



Left tail light wired now working on right!

 

[HarleyBob]

Completed! It took Three hours non stop to get it all together.

I road 10 miles in the Cold Rain to get this job finished and 10 miles back to my house. I just got a big bowl of warm Homemade soup in me and just glad it is Finished and She's home! These pictures were taken at the painter just before I left for home! It's going to turn to Ice in a day so had to get this finished today!



















When the weather gets better, I'll do some test riding!

 

[Gone2Three]

That sure turned out nice Bob :clapping: enjoy your newly triked ride! Stay warm and be safe

 

[dadztoy]

Looks fantastic Bob - truly a machine to be proud of... Now - - - ride brother ride!!!:clapping:

Les

 

[GRR]

Looks great!!

 

[jim bob]

Great thread, even better looking bike. Cannt wait to hear how it rides. thanks for letting me eves drop. Happy new year.

 

[HarleyBob]

Looks fantastic Bob - truly a machine to be proud of... Now - - - ride brother ride!!!:clapping:

Les

Les

Thanks for all your help

 

[HarleyBob]

Les

Thanks for all your help, It took about 7 weeks.

I first thought "Oh should take about 2, 3 tops! LOL!

I'm still waiting to hear from Tow-Pac on my refund!

Then I will do some test riding and do a summery of this experience for others

considering on getting a Tow-Pac out rigger trike!

 

[dadztoy]

Your welcome Bob, but I didn't do much - you did all the work - just some words of encouragement from myself and the others...

Looking forward to hearing of your riding experience with the 14" tires... Wondering how you set the down force or preload on those??? With my 12" tires, the Tow Pac guys told me to grab a 12" tire and turn it... I should just be able to break it loose from the ground doing that if it's adjusted properly... That procedure might be difficult with the 14" tires due to their size and mass and ground footprint...

Cold here this morning - about 24 degrees right now - no riding today!! Have to take my daughter and her husband to the airport a bit later as they journey home... The granddaughter is here for another day or so and then she departs as well, and another Christmas (and year) has passed...

I just noticed that it looks like you have a bra on the front of your bike... I use one when I'm on trips but usually don't have it on when I'm riding at home... The bra helps protect the front of my Wing when she's sitting in the back of the truck up high and being transported that way... I also use a vinyl windshield cover that my bride sewed up for me to protect the windshield as well... Every little bit helps ya know... Here's a pic of the bike with Tow Pac attached in the back of the truck...



Will be heading west this coming summer to ride amongst the Giant Sequoia's and visit Napa Valley (if there is anything left of it by the time the fires stop)... Also traveling up north again this year to ride in an old club event called "The Amazing Challenge"...

Ya'll stay warm - Spring will be here before ya know it!!

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

The down force or preload, has never been adjusted by me.

Factory told me it was set for my bike before shipment!

But who knows if this happen???

I thing the cart's tires are taking a lot of the weight!

With this set up with "The 14" tires." To get weight off the tire you have to jack it

way up. about 1 1/2' to get the tires up off the ground.

Now with it on the ground, no jack, I put a torque wrench on the lugs and torque them to 75' lbs. and the tire does not budge!

Here is a picture of the fender braces. They are 1/2" flat bar.

The finders do not budge when pushed on. Yet to give it a 75 M.P.H. test.

So much for the super clean bike, need to be washed again, I did knock a lot of yesterdays grime off of it with a hose. Still rainy and cold here.



****OK I can slide the tire on the Cart. I pull on the rim with my hand in one of the slots on the rim and pull back on the rim kneeling at the back of the cart and the tire slides. Not hard but at the same time not real easy to slide! ****

 

[dadztoy]

Well, if you really have to give a good tug with both hands with gloves on, that's what they told me it should be... I do know when my bike is on the center stand, my wheels are off the ground just a bit, and the left one (viewed from rear) is higher off the ground than the right... I attribute this to the bike being a bit crooked on the centerstand as viewed from the back...

With the bike on the ground in riding position, the measurement of the frame at the corners in the rear is about 11" off the floor to the top of the frame on both sides, and both sides are within 1/16" or less... Same for tire parallelism - less than 1/16" out on either side... The cart seems to hold good alignment if I first tighten the receiver stinger bolt, then tighten the left side lean stop nut and then the right side lean stop nut, in that order... I periodically run a 1/2-20 die up and down the bolts to clean up the threads a bit... I damaged the left one a bit when the nut cross threaded during a removal of the cart a while back, but I got it cleaned up enough to be functional again... I assume the bolts are just pressed in but I don't have a shop press (yet!!) and I would have to remove the sub frame to press out the old bolt and insert the new one... So for now, all is good...

Just dropped the kids at the Chattanooga Airport and the temp is up to 40 degrees with sunny skies, but still a bit cold for these old bones...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Les

My set up is not like yours. I don't have a center stand but I have a motorcycle jack.

When I jack it up the Cart wheels will not lift off the ground, due to the motorcycle front tire coming up first. Seems the weight of the cart causes this to happen! However it does take some weight off the cart wheels but will not lift them.

The rule-of-thumb Tow-Pac give for proper down pressure is as vague as their manual! too many variables.

But this is how I got the wheels to turn. I grab the slot in the mag one handed from the back and jerk on the wheel and it turns. I wouldn't say it's real hard but not real easy ether. I put my weight into it and I weigh 200#

Now if I was 230 it would turn easier or 150 it would be harder. So what does this tell me???? Who knows?

So far I like the ride with no issues at all.

***If you had too much down pressure what would happen?

***If you had too little what would happen?



Slots in mags. But not the same floor. It's at my shop!

****OK I can turn it with my hands on the tires, but it's Very Hard.

Looks like I will have to arm wrestle the guy at Tow Pac to get a better idea if it's set right! Also see if his floor is smooth or rough! LOL!

 

[dadztoy]

Your absolutely correct Bob - lots of variables there but I think we are on the right path... Even with my 12" wheels, it takes a pretty good tug on my smooth cement garage floor to move them...

Well, to much down force on cart wheels will result in loss of traction on bike's rear drive wheel... Too little down force and the bike will tend to wallow from side to side... It's really all in the feel and how firm you want the ride... And of course, tire pressure plays a part too, as does rear suspension settings on bike... You'll have lots of playing around to do this summer... That's why it took me so long to get everything dialed in...

I am one of those guys that is very attuned to my cars, truck, and bike... I know every little noise and idiosyncrasy on all of them, so if something changes, I can usually track it down...

I run my rear suspension at somewhere between 15-18 on the Wing's display and my TP cart tires are at 32 PSI (as opposed to Tow Pac's recommended 50 PSI)... The rear frame of my TP cart is 11" off the ground, and rear bike tire (which is a Yokohama Avid Envigor ZPS run flat car tire) is at 28 PSI... My front tire, a Bridgestone Battlax is at 41 PSI and I am actually running what they call double darkside because that front tire is actually a GL1500 rear tire...

I run darkside because tire mileage was so poor running the trike kit with normal bike tires and all the scrubbing action that takes place on the tires with these kits... My last set of Bridgestone G704/709 only yielded 8K miles and the front tire was cupped so badly, the handle bars oscillated until I got above 35 MPH...

My last Yoko yielded 17K miles and had about another 5K left and my Battlax front tire was at 20K with about another 5K left... Both tires were changed because I was riding our to the west coast in September with friends and wanted new tires on the bike for that trip...

I don't know of any HD guys running car tires but I don't see why it wouldn't work for you as well with the Harley... The bike handles equally well (actually better) with the car tire on the rear... Better ride 2 up and better handling in the rain - - AND - - - it is a run flat, so there is that!!!

I have TPMS on the bike so I can monitor tire pressure and temperature so that all works out pretty well...

Now - if it would just get warmer so I can ride!!! Santa brought me a set of LED headlights I have to install too, but gonna wait for a bit warmer weather before I get out in the garage... I could fire up the space heater, but it takes a lot of kerosene to heat the 30'X36' man cave with 11' ceilings - actually taller than that too because there is no ceiling in the garage it is a 8/12 pitch so the roof line is pretty close to 25' at the peak...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Les, Thanks lots of info. Yes Harley riders do go to the dark side. Tire pressure is something I need to take a look at. Traction on the bikes rear tire could be an issue. I can see where you have to trade off traction for more stability on the cart's tires.

The front brakes are 70% of the stopping on a two wheeler. So I would think you would get some what less that 30% on the rear with a cart. How much less will be up to the rider and his adjustments.

 

[Marc H]

Bob it came out looking great.Now you can get out and enjoy it.

 

[dadztoy]

Les, Thanks lots of info. Yes Harley riders do go to the dark side. Tire pressure is something I need to take a look at. Traction on the bikes rear tire could be an issue. I can see where you have to trade off traction for more stability on the cart's tires.

The front brakes are 70% of the stopping on a two wheeler. So I would think you would get some what less that 30% on the rear with a cart. How much less will be up to the rider and his adjustments.

I may have missed it in conversation Bob, but does your bike have ABS??? Do the HD's have a linked braking system like the Goldwing??? I don't know much about them even though I have rented them a time or two on various vacations... I am aware of the higher percentage of braking on the front brakes on most vehicles though...

One of the reasons I hesitate in going to a reverse trike like the Tilting Motor Werks conversion, or even most of the other trike conversions, is that in most cases you lose the ABS and linked brakes of the Goldwing...

Personally, I think all motorcycles should have ABS - it is quite a safety feature... Having had a few close ones in my 50+ years of riding, and one very bad accident in the 70's, a rider needs all the advantages he/she can get and IMO, ABS and linked brakes are 2 very important features I refuse to give up... At my age (71- - - 72 on Feb 4), my reflexes have slowed up considerably, and I don't "bounce" nearly as good as I used to in my younger years, so I'm trying desperately to avoid a repeat of the 70's years when I nearly "bought the farm"!!!

The Wings brakes are outstanding and will really haul her down fast if needed... In that respect, I do feel quite safe when riding my bike... One of the reasons I bought the Tow Pac was I was losing both upper body and leg strength... The wife will ride with me anywhere but has always told me: "Drop me once, and we're done!!" so I did what any reasonable husband would do and took advantage of that statement and bought a trike kit!!

I still ride on 2 wheels solo quite a bit, but when riding 2up, I usually have the trike kit on... I do enjoy the increased peace of mind and stability, but of course miss leaning thru those curves... That's why I like the Tilting Motor Werks conversion so much - best of both worlds EXCEPT for the missing ABS/Linked brake system...

Off the soap box now - have a great weekend... Cold here - no riding for at least the foreseeable week or two...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

My Harley just has Twin disc brakes in the front and a single disc in the rear. No linked brakes.

I took it out for a ride yesterday. The first one after getting it home that cold rainy first ride home from the painter. I noticed on rough roads the right fender rattles. No rattle on smooth roads. I met up at Hooters with some Brother for a meet and then a ride. Now these guys roll. I couldn't keep up on the tight turns but kept up on the straightaway! I didn't want to push it in the turns until I see how it handles. I'm going to double check the bolts this morning, especially on the right side.

***All is tight but I had this 8" round plastic road emergency flashing light, that no longer works, in the right saddle bag. I through it out. That could have been the rattle. On two wheels it's a smoother ride than with the Cart on. So It would have not rattled much. Getting cold so next time I ride I will see.***

 

[dadztoy]

Sounds good Bob, glad you got out for a ride - too cold here to ride now...

My Fenders do not rattle but above 70MPH they shake rather violently... So much so that I'm afraid the FG may crack so I keep the speed down below 70 when on trips... I'm going to experiment with cart tire pressure to see if that makes a difference and if it doesn't. I may make a brace that I can bolt on for Interstate Riding (although we do tend to stay off the Interstates while on the bike)...

I obtained some longer bolts from an Internet supplier (https://www.boltdepot.com/Socket_flat_head_Stainless_steel_18-8_1_4-20.aspx) that fit my fenders, so I can experiment a bit with struts and such...

Wonder if you had your cart tires balanced??? Maybe that's causing some vibration or perhaps you threw a wheel weight?? I was using Centramatic balancers on my cart tires, but opted to have my tire shop balance them in an effort to get a bit closer on balance... Thought that might be related to my 70+ MPH shake but alas it was not... You might look into the tire balance if you already haven't done so...

You said you couldn't keep up in the corners too well - was that because of steering effort or just trike stability??? There are a few riding tricks that I can pass along to help with cornering if you would like to hear them... They are standard trike riding methods so they are not any big secrets...

Leaning to the inside of the turn will help and if you can brace your outside foot on a highway peg, that will give you a bit more leverage in the lean... Locking your elbows in the turns for additional leverage helps too, also helps with fatigue on longer rides... And if you want to consider it, adding a 4.5 degree rake kit will help a LOT with both fatigue and ease of steering in turns... I still ride mine on 2 wheels with the rake kit, but that is something you would have to try with the HD as I don't know what the stock rake and trail is on a HD and how it would effect 2 wheel stability with the 4.5 rake kit...

Keep us informed on future rides and look down the page a bit for some of my modifications to the TP cart like adding rubber bumpers to quiet down the fenders...

https://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/27038-Added-some-rubber-bumpers-to-my-Tow-Pac-frame

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

The cart tires have weights on them, so I would say they have been balanced. On smooth roads no rattle at all @ 60 MPH. It could have been the junk in my right saddle bag. Too cold for a ride for me to try it again! In the 20's here!

I heard the rattle, I didn't see or feel it!

On the turns. A two wheeler can go around them much faster than a trike I would think! I'm talking about 90 degree turns. Steering is not hard. I'm just taking it a bit slower than the two wheeler until I get the feel of it. I don't want to end up in the ditch. Like I said before these Combat Vet guys roll and don't play around, not like your average weekend "biker"!

 

[dadztoy]

Ahhh, OK - yeah, lots of things could be making noise...

DANG, very cold here this morning 14 degrees - GEEEZ!!! Thought I left all that up north when I moved back south... Oh well, it is what it is... Looks like we have at least a week of this coldness, maybe more - brrrrr... Stay warm!!

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Still too cold to ride here! Well now is the time to do a Trike Build.

I did it the right time of year!

My Trike is finished and waiting for good weather!

When I did ride to the Harley shop, Hooters and around town.

Everywhere I stopped people came out to see it and complement me on the looks.

Two people asked me what would I charge to do their bike.

I told them $1000.00 but with the liability I don't think I would do that!

Nearest Tow-Pac dealer from here is 500 miles!

Now this was just my first ride in town, it's a head turner for sure!



This last picture does not show the true colors of the bike. The first two pictures do!