Oil from trans to primary......

[MDO]

I find that memo interesting.

They find that some have more transfer than expected. So they expect this transfer to occur?

So Jack & my M8 are broke because they don't do it.

Maybe the problem is using Formula +? Neither 1of us use it.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I find that memo interesting.

They find that some have more transfer that expected. So they expect this transfer to occur?

So Jack & my M8 are broke because they don't do it.

Maybe the problem is using Formula +?

I wish we could be that lucky Michael, time and miles will tell

I have extended warranty so if mine blows I am covered

I am NOT holding my breath waiting for HD to come out with a rel fix for those having the problem

IMO that would be admitting they have a problem

This is not the first time HD has had a problem similar to this

Back before the AMF days HD had an internal department called Harley Hospital( by employees) this is where bikes with major problems went to right off the assembly line

Prior to this and after this also bikes were sometimes shipped to dealers and told by HD to fix the bikes after customers complained

Is this any way to run a multi million dollar company? I dunno, what I do know is HD is not setting any sales records . IMO the younger crowd does not have the income to buy, so we as the ones that continue to put up with the MOCO may be stuck with a faulty design

I surely hope not

I doubt the Formula + is the culprit here IMO it is a fine lube I use it in my primary but not in my tranny JMO

 

[MDO]

I was trying to bring humor to a sad situation Jack with the Formula + comment.

This was posted on the hdforum today in the M8 forum under "Who is having to add transmission fluid."

Got off the phone with HD Customer Service( on hold for 22 minutes),,, The dealer did open a Ticket on the Migration, but HD Customer Service told me my dealer contacted an HD Tech at 10:30am about my bike migration & the Techs notes state "It is designed to do this" "It okay if some Fluid transfers from the Transmission into the Primary, even if there is no Oil on the Trans Dipstick,,, the transmission will be okay" WTF are these people smoking?

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=17452962​

 

[Jack Klarich]

I was trying to bring humor to a sad situation Jack with the Formula + comment.

This was posted on the hdforum today in the M8 forum under "Who is having to add transmission fluid."

Got off the phone with HD Customer Service( on hold for 22 minutes),,, The dealer did open a Ticket on the Migration, but HD Customer Service told me my dealer contacted an HD Tech at 10:30am about my bike migration & the Techs notes state "It is designed to do this" "It okay if some Fluid transfers from the Transmission into the Primary, even if there is no Oil on the Trans Dipstick,,, the transmission will be okay" WTF are these people smoking?

If that tech worked for me I would fire him

Maybe he could tell us why NONE of the older HD bikes ever did this

Going back to the 80s I NEVER had this problem with any of my Harleys and I traded up every 4-5 years so what was the deal with those bikes?And I put serious milers on all my bikes, changing the fluids @ 2,500 mile intervals on all my Evos and early Twin Cams, Note my trannys NEVER used any oil and Never transferred any fluids. I know this because I always measure what I drain out Just my way of doing things

Prior to the 80s I owned a Panhead and a Shovelhead Both leaked oil and tranny fluid

 

[rhino 2]

If that tech worked for me I would fire him

Maybe he could tell us why NONE of the older HD bikes ever did this

Going back to the 80s I NEVER had this problem with any of my Harleys and I traded up every 4-5 years so what was the deal with those bikes?And I put serious milers on all my bikes, changing the fluids @ 2,500 mile intervals on all my Evos and early Twin Cams, Note my trannys NEVER used any oil and Never transferred any fluids. I know this because I always measure what I drain out Just my way of doing things

Prior to the 80s I owned a Panhead and a Shovelhead Both leaked oil and tranny fluid

They won't fire the tech he's told to say that What is driving Harley crazy is that they don't know why some are doing it and some aren't so they just going to do the shotgun affect and come up with all kinds of other reasons why it's doing it hopefully finally hitting upon the fix AKA: customer research and development Or stall everyone with the problem hoping when winter comes and people ride less Then they have another year to try to figure it out

 

[rhino 2]

If that tech worked for me I would fire him

Maybe he could tell us why NONE of the older HD bikes ever did this

Going back to the 80s I NEVER had this problem with any of my Harleys and I traded up every 4-5 years so what was the deal with those bikes?And I put serious milers on all my bikes, changing the fluids @ 2,500 mile intervals on all my Evos and early Twin Cams, Note my trannys NEVER used any oil and Never transferred any fluids. I know this because I always measure what I drain out Just my way of doing things

Prior to the 80s I owned a Panhead and a Shovelhead Both leaked oil and tranny fluid

They won't fire the tech he's told to say that What is driving Harley crazy is that they don't know why some are doing it and some aren't so they just going to do the shotgun affect and come up with all kinds of other reasons why it's doing it hopefully finally hitting upon the fix AKA: customer research and development Or stall everyone with the problem hoping when winter comes and people ride less Then they have another year to try to figure it out

 

[Jack Klarich]

They won't fire the tech he's told to say that ��What is driving Harley crazy is that they don't know why some are doing it and some aren't so they just going to do the shotgun affect and come up with all kinds of other reasons why it's doing it hopefully finally hitting upon the fix AKA: customer research and development �� Or stall everyone with the problem hoping when winter comes and people ride less Then they have another year to try to figure it out ��

I dunno Bob, IMO there is only 1 path for the fluid to migrate out of the tranny

That would be the pushrod

I would bet HD knows this and will not come out with a fix for the bikes already sold. Maybe a New and improved transmission will show up on a new models.

Of course there will be a Screaming Eagle part available to upgrade our trannys for a price I hope I am wrong. As far as stalling the customer base, yeah they know some do not put a lot of miles on so they will not be changing or checking their fluids regularly, that said what about the units that have been documented 3 and more times already? Are they HD going to continue blowing off these customers til there is a class action law suit, some one dies or will HD buy back these bikes under a lemon law? I just don't know. So glad mine does not transfer yet

This problem is real, and it seems to get bigger every day. I read about it a lot, HD needs to make a confident statement about this problem soon or IMO confidence and sales will spiral out of control, very bad Ju Ju for a motorcycle I love

 

[MDO]

The problems are mounting for the MoCo with the EU issuing a 25% tariff, effective starting today. I think the EU has around 25 nations, so sales will be effected.

I know if my FW had been 25% more, I would not have it.:gah:

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Taking my 17 in on the 29th of this month,front left brake caliper stuck and turned the rotor black,plus i changed my fluids before a small trip and after 700 miles it was half way down on the stick.My warranty runs out this Sept so looking at getting an extended service plan.If HD doesnt come up with a good fix I am looking at changing brands,i will be retiring in a couple years and the last thing i want is to have a bike that i have no confidence in.Its a shame but HD has done this to its self.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Taking my 17 in on the 29th of this month,front left brake caliper stuck and turned the rotor black,plus i changed my fluids before a small trip and after 700 miles it was half way down on the stick.My warranty runs out this Sept so looking at getting an extended service plan.If HD doesnt come up with a good fix I am looking at changing brands,i will be retiring in a couple years and the last thing i want is to have a bike that i have no confidence in.Its a shame but HD has done this to its self.

Good luck Steve, let us know how it turns out

 

[vito]

Taking my 17 in on the 29th of this month,front left brake caliper stuck and turned the rotor black,plus i changed my fluids before a small trip and after 700 miles it was half way down on the stick.My warranty runs out this Sept so looking at getting an extended service plan.If HD doesnt come up with a good fix I am looking at changing brands,i will be retiring in a couple years and the last thing i want is to have a bike that i have no confidence in.Its a shame but HD has done this to its self.

Yes, they have been influenced by too many yuppies and rubs who don't actually ride much. Meanwhile, the rather obvious solution is to check the tranny oil level and top off as necessary. AFFAIK it doesn't hurt the primary to be a bit overfull. Ride on and enjoy it.

 

[rhino 2]

Yes, they have been influenced by too many yuppies and rubs who don't actually ride much. Meanwhile, the rather obvious solution is to check the tranny oil level and top off as necessary. AFFAIK it doesn't hurt the primary to be a bit overfull. Ride on and enjoy it.

Yep'Keep on adding till the clutch seizes up! The oil go's only one way into the primary jams up ' This is strait from Harley Tech : Do not add oil to the transmission If it's migrating to the primary instead bring it back to the dealer to lelvel out the oils'

 

[luzierg]

I'm using Amsoil heavy duty extreme gear oil 75w140. Could the problem be in the oil weight. Any suggestions on different transmission oils.

Thanks Gary

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Yep'Keep on adding till the clutch seizes up! The oil go's only one way into the primary jams up ' This is strait from Harley Tech : Do not add oil to the transmission If it's migrating to the primary instead bring it back to the dealer to lelvel out the oils'

Maybe their fix is that once the primary gets completely full the trans oil wont be able to migrate,SMDH........

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Yes, they have been influenced by too many yuppies and rubs who don't actually ride much. Meanwhile, the rather obvious solution is to check the tranny oil level and top off as necessary. AFFAIK it doesn't hurt the primary to be a bit overfull. Ride on and enjoy it.

I have owned only HD since 1988,had some great bikes.Had a 98 dresser that was kind of a pain in the ass.My 01 Road Glide was in for 1 warranty claim and the dealer caught that on delivery,had a big nick in the outer primary.owned that bike 11 years and 60,000 miles never let me down.My 12 Road Glide had a oil leak but dealer fixed it then 30,000 trouble free miles.Wish i would have kept my 16 Tri Glide now lol.

 

[MDO]

Yes, they have been influenced by too many yuppies and rubs who don't actually ride much. Meanwhile, the rather obvious solution is to check the tranny oil level and top off as necessary. AFFAIK it doesn't hurt the primary to be a bit overfull. Ride on and enjoy it.

It can cause problems with the primary being overfilled. Finding neutral & shifting.

I believe your acyronym only has 1 F, AFAIK

as far as I know.

 

[Jack Klarich]

AFFAIK it doesn't hurt the primary to be a bit overfull. Ride on and enjoy it.

Not true, In fact TOO much of a good thing in the primary ( lets say gear oil mixing ) can have bad effects on the clutch plates

Whilst true we have wet clutches, mixing fluids and over full will degrade clutches, cause slippage , hard to find neutral All in all bad Ju Ju

There is a reason the MOCO publishes amounts of fluid in the manuals

Notice, Do not over fill the primary chain case with lubricant. Overfilling can cause rough clutch engagement, incomplete disengagement, clutch drag and / or difficulty in finding neutral at engine idle (00199b) From the owners manual verbatim

Take this for what ever it is worth, I for 1 have adhered to fluids on all My bikes as HD calls out for

 

[Jack Klarich]

Yep'Keep on adding till the clutch seizes up! The oil go's only one way into the primary jams up ' This is strait from Harley Tech : Do not add oil to the transmission If it's migrating to the primary instead bring it back to the dealer to lelvel out the oils'

Before I would add I would surely pull the derby cover to have a look

If it was over full I would suck some out

Using Redline I would see the pink color in the mix No way I am riding my trike low on tranny fluid or too full in the primary

I will keep what I drained out and video tape my procedures, There is a time stamp on videos so it is pretty hard to argue that JMO

 

[MDO]

I was checking the tranny & engine fluid levels every 250 miles because of this issue, but at near 6,000 miles & that split 50/50 city/highway, I have dropped it to every 500 miles.

I don't know how to set up a forum survey/poll, but I think we should document what year models this is effecting & weather it is Freewheelers, air/oil cooled or Tri-Glides, twin cooled.

I know what the bulletin said, but I have not heard of any non M8's doing this. I'm no mechanic, but it seems to be hydraulic clutch related, but I don't know how.

Can anyone here confirm a non M8 trike or bike with this issue?

 

[Jack Klarich]

I was checking the tranny & engine fluid levels every 250 miles because of this issue, but at near 6,000 miles & that split 50/50 city/highway, I have dropped it to every 500 miles.

I don't know how to set up a forum survey/poll, but I think we should document what year models this is effecting & weather it is Freewheelers, air/oil cooled or Tri-Glides, twin cooled.

I know what the bulletin said, but I have not heard of any non M8's doing this. I'm no mechanic, but it seems to be hydraulic clutch related, but I don't know how.

Can anyone here confirm a non M8 trike or bike with this issue?

Michael, The bulletin goes back to 2014 Twin Cam models

I dunno what the MOCO did but it seems the hydraulic clutch is the source.

If I was a betting man I would say the actuator and the push rod are the problem.Not much else has changed in the gear boxes or the primary cept the slipper clutch. I am NOT a big fan of a clutch I cannot adjust the free travel on. I have spent the better part of my life correcting GM problems with their so called self adjusting self centering clutch. That is laughable, there is NO such thing.

Granted the slave cylinder will accommodate for clutch wear, however when you give up adjustments you also give up longevity.

You have an excellent idea on the poll, I would challenge the mods to put it up so we can track it. Good Job Michael:clapping:

 

[520fd]

Me and the Mrs. went for a ride to Galina, Il. the other day. I decided to check the transmission fluid before we left. Not a drop on the rod. Had to screw it all the way in before it would register on the very tip. I used BelRay and had Syn3 in the primary. So I drove up to the Harley dealer to get a qt. of BelRay. I added 8 ounces to get it back up. I guess I have the problem with "Transference". Crap. I have an appointment July 17th. to get the fluids changed and change out the left side switch. This is just before we leave for Sturgis. I don't know now. I might call tomorrow and see if I can get in earlier. Damn.

 

[rhino 2]

Me and the Mrs. went for a ride to Galina, Il. the other day. I decided to check the transmission fluid before we left. Not a drop on the rod. Had to screw it all the way in before it would register on the very tip. I used BelRay and had Syn3 in the primary. So I drove up to the Harley dealer to get a qt. of BelRay. I added 8 ounces to get it back up. I guess I have the problem with "Transference". Crap. I have an appointment July 17th. to get the fluids changed and change out the left side switch. This is just before we leave for Sturgis. I don't know now. I might call tomorrow and see if I can get in earlier. Damn.

That missing 8 oz is probably sitting in your Primary right now.......

 

[Jack Klarich]

That missing 8 oz is probably sitting in your Primary right now.......

No doubt about it

 

[Freewheeling Ron]

Does the oil migrate back into the tranny if the trike isn't ridden for a couple of months? I was going to check mine (2015 Freewheeler) but I haven't ridden in a few months. Wondering if I'll get an accurate reading.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Does the oil migrate back into the tranny if the trike isn't ridden for a couple of months? I was going to check mine (2015 Freewheeler) but I haven't ridden in a few months. Wondering if I'll get an accurate reading.

Not at this time

The Primary level will be higher, no place else for it to go

 

[Jack Klarich]

Not at this time

The Primary level will be higher, no place else for it to go

Your 15 cable pull clutch may not transfer fluid, tho I would check it to be sure

My 17 Freewheeler never did

 

[520fd]

Called my dealer this morning, got my appointment moved up to tomorrow. Great. Also getting the left hand switch replaced. I'm thinking of trying to get on the list to have that oil slinger installed. (which probably won't work ) Got it set up to put HD Formula+ in the tranny and primary. So if it still has issues, it won't contaminate the primary fluid. I've been having shifting issues too. Probably the reason.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I am done worrying about the transfer issue

Mine has not shown any sign of it even after being on a dyno with Kevin and Devin @ D K Customs

If it blows up I really dont care, H D will own it with ESP

It is so random of a deal I wish we had more numbers on who is and is not having this problem

I find it hard to believe all M8 bikes produced are seeing this problem?

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

I am done worrying about the transfer issue

Mine has not shown any sign of it even after being on a dyno with Kevin and Devin @ D K Customs

If it blows up I really dont care, H D will own it with ESP

It is so random of a deal I wish we had more numbers on who is and is not having this problem

I find it hard to believe all M8 bikes produced are seeing this problem?

Does this seem to be a issue on just the trikes or on 2 wheelers also.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Does this seem to be a issue on just the trikes or on 2 wheelers also.

Both, as far back as 2014