vtx 1800 5th gear power

[Smoken'JOE]

Nauga Mok
Don't know about you 'cause you haven't said, but in the lower gears, I don't get the shudder 'till down around 2000. Like I said, I have options with different camming.

Yep, will shudder at the lower gears also. I have found staying in the gear a little longer with higher "R"s will solve the problem. One of the reasons I went to my stock pipes instead of the slip-ons from Cobra. They just were to loud in the city in the lower gears with the higher RPMs.
Guess I'll enjoy what I have until it plain bugs me to much.

 

[John Luciano]

Sorry I was not thinking 2 vers 6 .. the Wing will go down to 25 or 30 MPH in 5th and still pull. I tried it with the Shadow 500 twin 2 wheeler and it is not capable of under 40 in 5th either....

 

[Baz]

Yep, will shudder at the lower gears also. I have found staying in the gear a little longer with higher "R"s will solve the problem. One of the reasons I went to my stock pipes instead of the slip-ons from Cobra. They just were to loud in the city in the lower gears with the higher RPMs.
Guess I'll enjoy what I have until it plain bugs me to much.

I still can't find the final drive ratio for the VTX 1800 but I note max torque is @ 3500 rpm , similar to mine. You'll note I'm doing 3600 rpm @ 100 kph ( 60 mph ) this is where I believe your bike should be running. At that speed my speedo was reading too high by approx 23 kph so you can see I hope, the significance of the f/d ratio change.

PS from memory the M109 R bike f/d ratio is 32/12 =2.66/1. I changed this to 3.08/1 ( I think ) :yes:
PPS. As I write this I'm in the process of fitting a Cobra FI 2000 R EFI tuner to get the fueling better to dial out the leanness which contributes to the shudders on big V twins. Do others fit this unit or Power Commanders ??

 

[REOFL]

Just got my Roadsmith conversion today on my VTX1800F3 from the Trike shop in Daytona. Drove on the highway and was pulling 5100 rpm to get to 70 MPH in 5th gear, engine hit the rev limiter (~5700 rpm) trying to get to 80 MPH. NO owners manual provided by Roadsmith for the 1800 conversion, but they provided a Goldwing manual that says the final drive is 3.55 where as the VTX1800F3 OEM final drive was 3.06. Do I need to change the differential gears? I don't think driving close to redline to maintain 70 mph on the highway can be too good for the engine? Anyone have similar experiences?

 

[Gorilla]

Just got my Roadsmith conversion today on my VTX1800F3 from the Trike shop in Daytona. Drove on the highway and was pulling 5100 rpm to get to 70 MPH in 5th gear, engine hit the rev limiter (~5700 rpm) trying to get to 80 MPH. NO owners manual provided by Roadsmith for the 1800 conversion, but they provided a Goldwing manual that says the final drive is 3.55 where as the VTX1800F3 OEM final drive was 3.06. Do I need to change the differential gears? I don't think driving close to redline to maintain 70 mph on the highway can be too good for the engine? Anyone have similar experiences?

No that does not sound very healthy for the motor. I think I would call the Trike Shop and ask them about it. I would think this would not be their first VTX 1800 conversion and should be aware that a gearing change is required.

 

[Chumbly]

I can't really answer diffinitively for a VTX 1800F with any other conversion than Motor Trike. Mine is a 2002 VTX 1800c with Motor Trike conversion. I noticed after the conversion that I couldn't get into 5th gear either...unless I wanted to severely break the speed limit... ya, about 150 KPH (SORRY, don't remember the conversion). The VTX has ALOT of power, (ei. torque). Pulling a trailer should be a snap... If yours is shaking, shift to a lower gear, you are lugging the engine in too low of an R.P.M. If you can't get it over 70 mph, my guess is your clutch is slipping or you differential is geared to low. Just trying to help... Chumbly-

 

[meredog]

I would guess 95% of our riding is in 4th gear

 

[jim peacock]

I have a 96 1500 with a 06 lehman kit,it has the same gearing as stock two wheeler.
I can get down to 20mph in fith gear two up pulling a trailer with out any shudder and just pull right away with no shudder.
I thought the vtx 1800 had as much horse power as a 1500 and it is lighter.
Maybe it is in the torque curve.

 

[John Luciano]

Same as Jim I rarely shift out of 5th . 20 MPH to 75.. If your gearing is 3:08 it should allow you to go faster than the 3:55. that is 3.55 turns of the drive shaft to one turn of the rear wheel. or 3.08 turns of the drive shaft in your case to one turn of the wheel . So less turns of motor to go more turns of wheel = faster per RPM . Unless you have much smaller rear tire circumference than the stock 2 wheel rear tire was . 3,000 is like 68 MPH on my 1500

 

[meredog]

Shucks---I pull Sequoia tree stumps with mine

 

[07 ROADSMITH]

My '07 w/ Roadsmith was also essentially a 4 speed. Need to have the beast running between 3 & 4 k in all gears above first. 3200 rpm seemed best for mine.

I put on a 2 into 1 Roadburner pipe and a Mach 2 intake & filter. Made a big difference. I can run and maintain 60 -65 mph in 5th now. (It's pretty flat in FLA remember) Before the conversion I needed to be 70 -75 mph in 5th to be able to hold speed. If RPMs dropped below 4k I had to drop a hole. It will even recover now without shudder or other complaints from down around 2800 rpms. Need to be take it easy on the throttle and bring it up a slowly, though. Or drop a hole. Hammer it and grin like a loony while it settles you back in the seat and stop at the next station for more motion lotion 'cause you're not going to get very far when you hammer it.

I rode for several weeks w/o a tach. Had a H*** of a time with the shuddering and bumping etc. The calibration of my ears from my previous rides for getting the shifts right (up and down) just wasn't there and I couldn't get it right. Tach was good investment for me. Keep it between 3 & 4 K in 2,3 4 and above 4 in 5th.

I've had no problem with the rev limits in 5th. I've been up to 110 and had more throttle left than nerve at the point and got off of it.

 

[meredog]

Pretty much nailed it Roadsmith. I normally don't use 5th unless I'm above 70 . i get about 105 miles per tank.

 

[Gorilla]

guys his complaint is that he can not go fast enough, because he is geared wrong. in 5th full throttle on the rev limiter not going 80 mph. he needs to go back to the dealer

 

[Baz]

guys his complaint is that he can not go fast enough, because he is geared wrong. in 5th full throttle on the rev limiter not going 80 mph. he needs to go back to the dealer

I'm with you! Seems to me that the dealer / installer has got his f/d ratio very wrong. I would be interested to read of the outcome. Baz.

 

[Smoken'JOE]

My '07 w/ Roadsmith was also essentially a 4 speed. Need to have the beast running between 3 & 4 k in all gears above first. 3200 rpm seemed best for mine.

I put on a 2 into 1 Roadburner pipe and a Mach 2 intake & filter. Made a big difference. I can run and maintain 60 -65 mph in 5th now. (It's pretty flat in FLA remember) Before the conversion I needed to be 70 -75 mph in 5th to be able to hold speed. If RPMs dropped below 4k I had to drop a hole. It will even recover now without shudder or other complaints from down around 2800 rpms. Need to be take it easy on the throttle and bring it up a slowly, though. Or drop a hole. Hammer it and grin like a loony while it settles you back in the seat and stop at the next station for more motion lotion 'cause you're not going to get very far when you hammer it.

I rode for several weeks w/o a tach. Had a H*** of a time with the shuddering and bumping etc. The calibration of my ears from my previous rides for getting the shifts right (up and down) just wasn't there and I couldn't get it right. Tach was good investment for me. Keep it between 3 & 4 K in 2,3 4 and above 4 in 5th.

I've had no problem with the rev limits in 5th. I've been up to 110 and had more throttle left than nerve at the point and got off of it.

Nailed it right on the head.

No trouble getting over 70mph as long as you increase slowly or drop down to 4th and accelerate.

As for the ratios........I called them and they said it was the best set up. They had tried all the rest.
Sadly though my gas mileage sucks, 22.5 was the best all weekend for 1000 miles.
Call them Baz and talk with them. Very interested to find out what they say to you for the different ratios they have experimented with.


Roadsmith

3744 Schueneman Road

White Bear Lake, MN

(800) 331-0705

(651) 777-7774

 

[Chumbly]

guys his complaint is that he can not go fast enough, because he is geared wrong. in 5th full throttle on the rev limiter not going 80 mph. he needs to go back to the dealer

No, Meredog's problem is he feels his bike isn't strong enough to pull a trailer because it feels weak pulling in 5th at low RPM's. He's used to the original bike traveling at highway speeds in 5th gear. Yes, the gear ratios are different, I believe, but not enough to make a big difference... Now, just leave it in 4th at highway speeds, and only shift into 5th if you are greatly exceeding, say, 65- 70 mph. It will have enough power, for higher speeds as well... as long as the RPM are high enough.

REOFL has the problem of low speed at high RPMs. My guess is somethings slipping... and yes, he should take it back to the dealor... this just doesn't sound right. I've ran equipment and big trucks for more than 35 years... I'll tell you, almost every engine I've ran will shudder if you try to push a low speed in a high gear (with low RPM)... it's called "lugging" the engine. If your engine doesn't do it, it's a very well engineered engine, but doing this is not "healthy" for any engine. JMHO Chumbly-

 

[Big_Steve]

No, Meredog's problem is he feels his bike isn't strong enough to pull a trailer

REOFL has the problem of low speed at high RPMs.

This is an older thread with different folks asking questions.

 

[Gorilla]

No, Meredog's problem is he feels his bike isn't strong enough to pull a trailer because it feels weak pulling in 5th at low RPM's. He's used to the original bike traveling at highway speeds in 5th gear. Yes, the gear ratios are different, I believe, but not enough to make a big difference... Now, just leave it in 4th at highway speeds, and only shift into 5th if you are greatly exceeding, say, 65- 70 mph. It will have enough power, for higher speeds as well... as long as the RPM are high enough.

REOFL has the problem of low speed at high RPMs. My guess is somethings slipping... and yes, he should take it back to the dealor... this just doesn't sound right. I've ran equipment and big trucks for more than 35 years... I'll tell you, almost every engine I've ran will shudder if you try to push a low speed in a high gear (with low RPM)... it's called "lugging" the engine. If your engine doesn't do it, it's a very well engineered engine, but doing this is not "healthy" for any engine. JMHO Chumbly-

Chumbly I was responding to REOFL's post not Meredogs. He not suffering from lugging. He is on the rev limiter (5700 RPM) in high gear (5th) and only going a little over 70. That's what I read and understood in both of his posts. Your right the clutch could be slipping or he is just geared to low. Not being there riding the bike it's hard to say. I would think that much slipping he would notice, but hard to say.

 

[REOFL]

Went back to the ROADSMITH installer and they had me check the gearing (count of one wheel turn gave be about 3.5 drive shaft revolutions 3.55 seems to be what RoadSmith has determined to be the best ratio through trial and error during design).

I took it back out on a test drive with a GPS to check the speedo and the speedo read about 5 mph slower than the GPS {in 1st 3000 rpm gave me 24 mph, 2nd 3000 rpm gave me 35 mph, 3rd 3000 rpm gave me 45 mph, 4th 3000 rpm gave me 54 mph and 5th 3000 rpm gave me 64 mph.} So guess the combination of smaller wheels 18" to 16" and final drive 3.09 to 3.55 plus the 5 mph speedo error puts me in a safe zone for cursing on the highway (couldn't get to a highway to check out 70 mph, will try this weekend); definitely lost some top end, but never go much over 75 anyway.

Looks like I just lacked experience/ the new feel of a trike and the fact that the VTX F model isn't a good trike candidate, due to the compromising of some Honda design parameters.

I do experience the "shudder" (shakes the hell out of the handle bars) below about 2500 rpm that goes away above 3000 rpm. May try a heavier duty clutch, I think I read somewhere on the posts that some of the shudder may be from the extra weight and the clutch not engaging smoothly, anyone have any experience here?

Definitely need the 6% rake kit as the trike wobbles at slow speeds, below 30-45 mph, then steadies out and drive smoothly above that.

 

[Smoken'JOE]

Went back to the ROADSMITH installer and they had me check the gearing (count of one wheel turn gave be about 3.5 drive shaft revolutions 3.55 seems to be what RoadSmith has determined to be the best ratio through trial and error during design).

I took it back out on a test drive with a GPS to check the speedo and the speedo read about 5 mph slower than the GPS {in 1st 3000 rpm gave me 24 mph, 2nd 3000 rpm gave me 35 mph, 3rd 3000 rpm gave me 45 mph, 4th 3000 rpm gave me 54 mph and 5th 3000 rpm gave me 64 mph.} So guess the combination of smaller wheels 18" to 16" and final drive 3.09 to 3.55 plus the 5 mph speedo error puts me in a safe zone for cursing on the highway (couldn't get to a highway to check out 70 mph, will try this weekend); definitely lost some top end, but never go much over 75 anyway.

Looks like I just lacked experience/ the new feel of a trike and the fact that the VTX F model isn't a good trike candidate, due to the compromising of some Honda design parameters.

I do experience the "shudder" (shakes the hell out of the handle bars) below about 2500 rpm that goes away above 3000 rpm. May try a heavier duty clutch, I think I read somewhere on the posts that some of the shudder may be from the extra weight and the clutch not engaging smoothly, anyone have any experience here?

Definitely need the 6% rake kit as the trike wobbles at slow speeds, below 30-45 mph, then steadies out and drive smoothly above that.

There should have been a "speedo-healer" with the kit to correct the speedometer.
The shudder has nothing to do with the clutch. It's the engine not up to the right RPMs.
Here's where I got my 6* rake.
xf6 custom design llc, parts and accessories for valkyrie motorcycles and vtx motorcycle