2006 VTX 1800 Motortrike rearend R&R - Fix Broken Welds for Ladder Bar Mount -

[Volkemon]

​

OK, everybody coffee'd up?

Talked with Richard at Motortrike yesterday afternoon, and things are looking SO much brighter.

I will rip apart the axle I have, until it is just a shell.

Motortrike is going to remove the old weldments, prep the area, and jig-weld the axle again.

Factory Perfect. No joking, I had to reassure myself I was not dreaming.

And for a very reasonable price.

SO... got the axle in at work, getting ready to drain and gut it. Got a pretty pallet, and I am gonna make a shipping box on it. There will be an axle, cookies and maybe more in it.

This is a WELCOME change of events. I bought this used, MT owes me nothing. They are going above and beyond to make things right.

Will keep this thread current as things progress. AWESOME development.

 

[Volkemon]

How does all that steel (welded to tubes on either side of pumpkin) get that separated. Looking close at "cracks too, almost makes one think of hitting a gas pump island. Why I said check alignment of axle housing tubes for straightness. I brightened it for clarity.

In that picture, I have cut the angle that connects the pieces side-to-side. You can see I overlapped the pieces in the upper right, that is what allows the huge gap between the pieces. It was NOT like that before the cut. The gap was tiny, I had to use a prybar to force it out a bit to show it better in the early pics.

I am 99% sure this was not broken in one event. The rust in the broken weld, all the cracks... this has been flexing and getting worse for a while. We had been hearing noises, but I thought it was just body parts hitting frame.

I am wondering if the problem was the cause for the sale. Previous owner had a vibration under acceleration. Getting worse, they bring it to a 'mechanic' to fix. This 'mechanic' opens up the rear end, puts the new seals in and other unknown work, then puts the driveshaft in misindexed.:xzqxz: Never sees the cracks in the dark oily underbody area.

Owner now has a bike that vibrates worse than before, gives up, and gets rid of it to the 'horse trader' I got it from. No test drive, because I would readily feel the bad vibration at ~45 or so. Then I fixed the driveshaft, getting rid of most of the vibration....except the flexing problem that started it all.

Things flexed even more, with the sticky tires and better brakes. Cracks grew.

Then this Florida Yahoo :wave4:speedshifts it into third, and it finally broke. Thanks to The Lord that we were not killed.

So yeah, there were no big gaps after the break, only after I cut the piece out.

 

[3W-lonerider]

i'm so happy that your sending it to motortrike to be put back in a jig and fixed properly. with everything in alignment. not doubting your mechanical skills in no way shape or form. but being put in a jig at least you know everything, is going to be straight.

i know if i tried fixing that and put everything back togather and still had a vibration i would be questioning, did i get everything aligned right.

cudos for motortrike stepping up and cutting you a break. no pun intended.

 

[Volkemon]

i'm so happy that your sending it to motortrike to be put back in a jig and fixed properly. with everything in alignment. not doubting your mechanical skills in no way shape or form. but being put in a jig at least you know everything, is going to be straight.

i know if i tried fixing that and put everything back togather and still had a vibration i would be questioning, did i get everything aligned right.

cudos for motortrike stepping up and cutting you a break. no pun intended.

You hit the nail on the head. I dont care WHO you are, trying to do that job accurately without a jig would be 50% luck 50% skill. I knew this. Thats a 'problem' with knowing how to do things right.... you know when you are not doing it that way.

HUGE show of responsibility by Motor Trike. They are going above and beyond 'who paid who' and simply making their work right and me whole. Not a common trait for many businesses today.

So... instead of strapping it to a pallet, I treated this axle like it was something my life depended on. I have a bit better sense of that now..

Started by making the inner supports. The axle end cradles were easy - use a hole saw in a 2x4, then cut the hole in half to get two perfect cradles. Notch as needed for clearance. Did the pinion support with a jigsaw. Ryobi really has its sh*t together on the new tools. Yellow pine is tough, but the cordless jigsaw didnt even slow down.



***************************************************************

Added the rear supports, base and starting on front bracing.



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Adding the rest of the front bracing. The lag bolts, 2x4's and OSB sheet wood are all recycled from hurricane shutter take-downs at work. Hate throwing stuff away, as my garage will witness!!



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The final inner brace. All it needs is sides and top!



*******************************************************

Now the box is left with all the other 'toys' under the light of a full moon to gather good vibes. :clapping: If Fr. Louis had not been busy, holy water and a blessing would be there also.

Goes in the next day for paint and labels.



*******************************************************

Painted and ready. I was gonna put 'UP' on the end, it turned into a shout-out to the delivery folks. :good:

Label is laminated, glued and stapled to the box. It provides a good spot for the UPS shipping sticker also, as OSB does not hold sticky stuff well.

For return, the lid is simply flipped over and bolted on. There is a return label printed and prepaid on the other side.

$195 shipping each way, insured to $3500. Cost me $80 to insure it, not a bad deal in my book. If *ANYTHING* happens, and the axle is destroyed, I will have a new one.



**************************************************

And off to the UPS warehouse. :yahoo:We have a major distribution hub nearby, very handy.

I got the ladder bars painted, looking sharp. I am going to paint the axle and driveshaft the same color.



Again. HUGE thanks to Motortrike.

 

[Volkemon]

And to the folks at Motortrike... its an easy unpack. Some directions are written inside.

1) Take off the 8 top bolts, remove lid.

2) take off the 4 red-headed bolts on the end caps, 2 each side. Remove top brace.

3) Remove two wingnuts inside.

4) lift the axle out! I tried it, its a little snug but does not bind.

Assemble in reverse order, making sure the return shipping label is on top!

The UPS clerk did screw up a bit. I was originally going to ship it back to my workplace. However, the clerk used my licence address for the return address. So it is coming to the house. No biggie, so dont 'panic' if anyone notices the label addy does not match paperwork. Either way I will get it. Our regular UPS guy, Jay, will make sure it is left in a good place.

Oh... I think I may have accidentally dropped some beverages inside........ Enjoy! :clapping:

 

[bikerbillone]

Wow, meticulous with your machine, kudos to you, hope MotorTrike does a great job for you. Good PR for them.

 

[3W-lonerider]

Nice looking crate. And well supported.

 

[Warlock]

Nicely packaged up. Hoping for a quick turn around for you. Living in the south like we do our riding season is pretty well all year long.

David

 

[CrystalPistol]

Nice work :clapping:, but as level as it is, your "UP" arrows appear to have it shipping upside down as related to it's intended use now, but right side up related to Ford's plan, not that the axle housing cares. :Shrug: If it get's destroyed in that box, it'll be a bad wreck with fire and all I think. A lot of guys, me too maybe:blush:, would have secured it to a pallet (blocks/bolts) and 7-12 layer shrink wrapped it. Your box is more hand truck friendly.



Ladder bars look great too, a yellow driveshaftand black rear axle with green inspection plate will look great too. Really.

Me? … mine's all black (some is paint & some is grease thrown off the U-joint I guess) & dusty.

 

[Volkemon]

Nice looking crate. And well supported.

Thank You!

Wow, meticulous with your machine, kudos to you, hope MotorTrike does a great job for you. Good PR for them.

Never cared more for a bike than now I am 'one of two of a kind' as Joe Jackson said. (Happy Loving Couples)

When I realized that ...AT BEST... that disaster could have been .... mg:

I was a driven man.

Motor Trike will get all the promotion I can give. I still have that stencil.

I begged them for help.........resolution in WORLD QUALITY SERVICE. :good:

I would be remiss in letting others not know.

Nicely packaged up. Hoping for a quick turn around for you. Living in the south like we do our riding season is pretty well all year long.

David

HELL yes Cuz. Grew up in Vermont and was in Army 10th MTN INF. But born in FLA and back to live again. HOOOOOOAH!

Nice work :clapping:, but as level as it is, your "UP" arrows appear to have it shipping upside down as related to it's intended use now, but right side up related to Ford's plan, not that the axle housing cares. If it get's destroyed in that box, it'll be a bad wreck with fire and all I think. A lot of guys, me too maybe:blush:, would have secured it to a pallet (blocks/bolts) and 7-12 layer shrink wrapped it. Your box is more hand truck friendly.



Ladder bars look great too, a yellow driveshaftand black rear axle with green inspection plate will look great too. Really.

Me? … mine's all black (some is paint & some is grease thrown off the U-joint I guess) & dusty.

I got the picture of your car... its called a harlequin paint job. ( LOL...I am VOLKEMON Dude...)

:lol: BUT.....

:shades:

Working on the exhaust now. MORE shiny stuff. Check my main thread.

 

[Volkemon]

Well, the box was in Texas yesterday... and in the words of Mel Fisher -

TODAY'S THE DAY! :clapping:

Scheduled to be there by close of business!

For those not familiar with the Treasure Coast of Florida... or Mel....

https://www.melfisher.com/SalvageOperations/TributeToMel.asp

 

[trike tech]

Well, the box was in Texas yesterday... and in the words of Mel Fisher -

TODAY'S THE DAY! :clapping:

Scheduled to be there by close of business!

For those not familiar with the Treasure Coast of Florida... or Mel....

https://www.melfisher.com/SalvageOperations/TributeToMel.asp

When you have a moment would you please shoot an email my way (tech@motortrike.com) with your information. That way I can go ahead & put you in our system to get the ball rolling a little bit faster once it's processed through our warehouse.

 

[Volkemon]

When you have a moment would you please shoot an email my way (tech@motortrike.com) with your information. That way I can go ahead & put you in our system to get the ball rolling a little bit faster once it's processed through our warehouse.

Will do!

 

[Volkemon]

The adventure continues.

Crate arrived today, contents received with glee! :clapping:

HOWEVER... I really do have an antique. The rear axle I have is not a match to current production. Has not been for ~10 years.:xzqxz:

The current production jig is not usable on my axle.:annoyed:

So a flat table, much measuring and even fabbing up a set of VTX ladder bars are in the process. Richard talked me through the process ahead, and I appreciate the extra work. :Angel:

He did note that their inspection also found irregularities with welds, and even maybe many possibly missing in the support welding. Current production apparently has *everything* getting a bead. :Shrug: And maybe something with wire selection. BUT.... There is NO body in the shop presently that was working there then. They are certainly standing behind their work, to say the least. Shows you the devotion of a company covering this to a secondary purchaser.

Original ETD from MotorTrike was tomorrow, amazingly enough. But having to 'one off' this takes time.

And with new developments it is moved to next week after wed. NO worries. I am extremely grateful the process is underway. BEYOND grateful.

This ride is gonna be right. :good: Poor Mrs V is standing firm as the trike gets ripped to shreds... :crossing:

 

[Warlock]

Glad Motor Trike is standing behind you on this. Me having a Motortrike kit also feels better to know they do care about the customer and going above and beyond to make it right.

David

 

[CrystalPistol]

Glad it is all coming together for you.

So it was poor … or lack of … welding huh?

Are they making you new ladder bars or are you … did attachment points change like they maybe cut all new bracing, gussets, etc.

 

[Volkemon]

Hard to say exactly what it was, but welding process was the best guess. As I stated above, there isnt a person in the construction end that was there to say WHAT was 'normal' to weld or not back then.

No need for new ladder bars. As I understand it, they made up a pair of the ones like I have just for fitment in the shop. IF indeed I do need new ones for whatever reason, I expect they will let me know.

Being that they are going above and beyond what I already considered superior response, I am open to things changing.

Their 'task' got bigger the moment they realized the age of my conversion. Could have VERY easily been a phone call saying 'sorry we cant do this'. Instead it was an explanation of why a jig wasnt being used, as initially stated. That it was being done as a one-off, with all the extra work that NOT having a jig entails.

Might I add WITHOUT ONE MENTION of added costs.

The original estimate was so reasonable, I doubled (!) it just in case. Even doubled it was a bargain, and even more so now seeing the work going in. I would have been having to do the same, on my own, WITHOUT a shop full of trike experience around me. Whatever it takes, I am confident that the work will be top notch.

I will bet my, and My Wife's life on it.

 

[Volkemon]

'Florida Freeze' here, 37* this morning. Falling Iguana Warnings posted. :afraid:

No kidding. And you thought 'Raining Cats and Dogs' was tough.

Better than my 10thMTN INF days in Valcartier base....we saw 20-30 BELOW zero this time of year. Dont miss it.

BUT.... today should be the day I hear about the rear end being...done? Near? Bad news travels fast, and I have not heard a thing, so thats good news in my book. :wink:

So looking forward to it.

 

[CrystalPistol]

Thirty Seven? Saw that on our news here in Va. last night, "falling iguanas" … :laugh: I told the wife of when I was a kid in Del Rio, Tx., back in the '50s, was a hurricane hit the gulf coast likely, but Mom & Dad told us about it raining frogs. Wasn't many trees, the frogs had been swept up by the winds elsewhere and literally rained down in west Texas. Gooey mess on the road. Was a hurricane in like '54, flooded the Rio Grande, the Devil's R. flooded, then was draught for years after.

I suspect iguanas would get your attention … especially if they fell on your helmet face shield as you rode. But iguanas falling from trees likely will survive … unless they then get smootered on the road.

For some reason, I thought I had read the rear was done, but then all day yesterday this sight was kaput to my PC? Hope it all goes well and a speedy return is the result, I know the anticipation & constant planning of things to tend to upon reassembly.

"Glee on 3" would be a tight fit on a MC plate.

 

[Volkemon]

Yeah, I couldnt log on.

Unfortunately only 5 digits on a cycle tag. Works on a regular tag though!! May have to vanity tag the cycle hauler. :clapping: '2 ON 3' will look nice with hearts below.

My wife dreamed we had it done. Everybody dream with us.

 

[Volkemon]

Thanks for the dreams folks. Couldnt have written the story better.

Richard called. Its done. I also added two latches, hinges and a motortrike emblem, as mine is a little ratty.

Initially he quoted me $300. No, i I didnt miss a zero. $300.

Thought that was crazy cheap, so planned on ~$500. With shipping, I got less than a grand in the repair.

As y'all might have read, things got even more complicated. The jig wouldnt work on my old axle. Had to be hand done. Their lead welder was on the job.

And I added stuff. Soooooooo..... my new total....

$198.77



:xzqxz:​

I tested myself to ensure I am awake. Not a dream. Box is shipping out today.

Absolutely infreakincredible.

THIS is what customer service is all about. Actually, FANTASY customer service. 'Real world' customer service would have had it returned to me as obsolete and irreparable.

I am so excited I cant even eat lunch. Been trying for a 1/2 hr.

MOTOR TRIKE.... you rock. I am humbled and impressed. No sh*t, you have a grown man moved to tears in a partsroom in FL, trying to compose himself to go back to work. Been a little tense about this, $10K in on a trike that we rode four times. Relief hit me.

GLEE ON THREE is Coming back soon.

 

[3W-lonerider]

i'm extremely happy for you. can't wait to see it all back togather and rideable.

 

[Volkemon]

Its home.



With a small box of shiny stuff too! :clapping:



Unfortunately, this crack came home too. :blush:

REALLY?!?!?

Not like I POSTED F"N PICTURES IN HD OF EVERY SINGLE CRACK..................... :xzqxz: :annoyed::badmood::blowup::mob:



(above picture is before it left. I am not in the mood to switch my camera lens, set up the light etc for one pic)

Makes one think about quality control. :nonono:

I am going to enjoy some of the areas finest fish and chips, and relax and think before I comment in detail.

 

[CrystalPistol]

Delivery man dropped it? :Shrug:

Makes you wonder how deep the welds are? Stresses built up?

I know you're going over welds with magnifier & bright light, I would be. If that was the only one cracked, I might would Vee it & put some of my own melted metal on top.

Is that rust I see? Any chance that's a cracked weld from before?

Cracks in welds ain't horse shoes ... close don't count.

 

[Volkemon]

Delivery man dropped it? :Shrug:

Makes you wonder how deep the welds are? Stresses built up?

I know you're going over welds with magnifier & bright light, I would be. If that was the only one cracked, I might would Vee it & put some of my own melted metal on top.

Is that rust I see? Any chance that's a cracked weld from before?

Cracks in welds ain't horse shoes ... close don't count.

Delivery man could have tossed that crate off a truck, it would have done lots of crate damage before ever getting close to affecting the contents.

The rust was there when I sent it. The picture is from BEFORE I sent the axle out. Evidently they didnt bother to check the axle thoroughly.

Its not like I provided a full color high definition collection of pictures showing the cracks. Wait..... I DID.

And Richard made it clear they were aware of this thread.

Not to mention they doubled up on the welds for the spring shocks and airbags. FOR NO GOOD REASON I can see but to run beads. I am sincerely hoping they didnt warp the axle tubes. Whoever was welding got penetration all right....

There is some serious weld warping on the ladder bar bracket. The welds look great, but a lesson in weld sequence and weldment warpage might be in order.

Here is a simplified expanation of what I am referring to.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/welding-distortion.html

""The accumulation of weld metal shrinkage stress from a weld bead can be compared to boot laces.When you lace a boot each lace holds a bit of stress.

And if you ignore that fact, you can wind up with boots that are laced too tight at the ankle.

Each ripple of a weld bead is a freeze line and indicates a solidifaction of weld metal that shrinks upon cooling. All that shrinking adds up and that is why the direction of travel of a weld bead has a great affect on distortion.""

So... once I cool down a bit, a proper inspection of the axle will take place. See how welds were put down, start using a straight edge to see how much things are distorted.

Try to get a feel for how much locked in stress there might be.

Check and see if the axle ends are still pointed towards the center of the differential. All those *$#*@#$ UNNECESSARY beads on one side of the tube, and possibly put down with no regard to warpage.

See if I am going to have to anneal the entire axle, and if that is even practical.

I am just in a bit of shock. After feeling so good about the service, to have such ....well... 'product' sent to my door..

I would be very hesitant to trust their work without intense inspection. SO glad I spec'd no paint on the axle. Thick coat of black paint would have hidden things. I would advise anyone getting a weldment to request NO PAINT.

Returning it with the same crack(s?) it left with... Damn. Thats sad.

I sent these guys my best. If this is their best... there is plenty of room for improvement. Next time charge me more and do the job completely.

Sorry for the rant. I have to get back into 'work mode' and attend to this later.

 

[Jack Klarich]

That really sucks. Shouldn't that crack been ground down before welding? Shame on the welder

 

[CrystalPistol]

Delivery man could have tossed that crate off a truck, it would have done lots of crate damage before ever getting close to affecting the contents.

The rust was there when I sent it. The picture is from BEFORE I sent the axle out. Evidently they didnt bother to check the axle thoroughly.

… etc …

Well, I was mostly joking about the delivery man dropping it … :laugh: … but you did build quite a box.

Sorry to hear or read about the bad deal. Like a waste of time & effort not to mention a small outlay of cash . Looking pretty sad on their part, but on the bright side, the axle is shorter than Ford made it, so any distortion will show less, and there is a hair of room for variations. Hopeful that it's not too bad. The only real problem areas would be the alignment of bearing races/rollers at the wheel ends with the axle shafts I think, likely the splined ends are within tolerance where they'll enter the side gears. The other "tell" will be left to right wheel alignment, or toe.

It's a pretty robust housing for the job at hand, that's good thing.

More I think on it, unless it's really warped bad, you'll be OK with some welding. I know it's a small comfort, but soon Spring will be here.

 

[Volkemon]

That really sucks. Shouldn't that crack been ground down before welding? Shame on the welder

Little misunderstanding here... the cracked weld you see was on the axle when I sent it to them. Welder missed it....

I will be welding it, and HELL YES it will be 'Vee'd' out before welding.

 

[Volkemon]

Well, I was mostly joking about the delivery man dropping it … :laugh: … but you did build quite a box.

Sorry to hear or read about the bad deal. Like a waste of time & effort not to mention a small outlay of cash . Looking pretty sad on their part, but on the bright side, the axle is shorter than Ford made it, so any distortion will show less, and there is a hair of room for variations. Hopeful that it's not too bad. The only real problem areas would be the alignment of bearing races/rollers at the wheel ends with the axle shafts I think, likely the splined ends are within tolerance where they'll enter the side gears. The other "tell" will be left to right wheel alignment, or toe.

It's a pretty robust housing for the job at hand, that's good thing.

More I think on it, unless it's really warped bad, you'll be OK with some welding. I know it's a small comfort, but soon Spring will be here.

Here in the land of eternal summer, AKA Florida, Spring coming means heat is too. THIS is the time of year to enjoy riding.

I am sincerely hoping things go together and work. When disassembling the axle, I found one of the backing plates had washers between it and the axle. Only one... so when I assemble, I will not install them and see if there is a problem with spider shaft clearance or similar. I bet they got put there to fix something..

Or possibly the idiots that last worked it over installed them wrong and didnt care. Hard to say, so every single stage of assembly will be done with frequent stops for inspection.

This is 'life' getting a used kit without instructions. Can get....exciting. And frustrating. I bet I r&r'd the exhaust 15 times. But it looks fantastic, and like it is a factory job.

My wife is very trusting of me, and my abilities. She really misses the trike, and cant wait to go riding again. She knows I will leave no stone unturned while I look for issues. I may install the housing before assembly so I can establish the exhaust routing. HOPING to go over the axle with the pipes... would be slick.

But I hope we get some good riding in before spring arrives... New Years day was last ride.

 

[CrystalPistol]

I may install the housing before assembly so I can establish the exhaust routing. HOPING to go over the axle with the pipes... would be slick.

Gonna be tight too. :cxtv:

Finding these things, taking time and paying close attention to details to suit yourself is normal.

When I got our trike I had a problem with some lights, got to looking, found a bad ground splice, also found a bunch of blue scotchlok wire splice connectors that I learned long ago to NOT trust (they cut open insulation, let moisture in, stress the wire strands, cut some strands, etc) as I've stopped a bunch of stuff (tractor trailers or other towed vehicles usually) at night for no rear lights or flickering lights only to find wiring done with them. I pulled every one and did proper spllces using good technique, solder, my dad's old Weller (1950s era, get's hot fast on second click) and tape (Scotch Super 33) … & maybe shrink tube in places. I always almost add a small zip tie, though not needed, just how I am?.

End of my light issue, but it took some time. I have the manuals & other paperwork, invoices, etc, it's simply how kits get installed because it's faster & easy, I saw that installer did it by the book using kit supplied Scotchloks. I mentioned it a few times to the original owner / installer … he asked why I did them all and not just fix the bad connection & ride. :laugh: Just a different view.:Shrug: Scotchloks may work on low current wires when insulated with tape, but they still stress wires & cut strands, I just don't like them.

Back in 2010 I was driving my "new to me" '07 FX4 Ford. Wife & puppy with me, was dusk, we were eating ice cream cones. Mama deer & small spotted fawn run out from brush, one hit my bumper and bent it on left end. Called local PD, they come, made note of non reportable crash, gave me his name for my ins. co. (I have $50 deductible from the '70s still). I get estimate at great local shop (Estimater "Mr. *&%%$#, it's gonna be $1,056.27 to replace & paint that bumper with a new Ford bumper", …me "Oh, that's OK, I quit caring when it passed $50"), old friend runs it. They fix it, paint new bumper, beautiful paint ... I could tell though that the headlight and panel above the bumper were not aligned just right or something. I paid, get home, crawled under for a look. When I took the truck up there I had pointed out a bent left side frame horn bracket that needed straightening, the boys in his shop did not do that.

They used front end alignment horse shoe type shims and the bolts was just barely tightened. I removed the fog lights, took the bumper, the upper bumper cover off and saw they had also not mounted it right under the headlight, hence the decreased gap at the headlight base. I straightened the bent bracket, put it all back together right, I mean perfect. Put the shims in a bag and a few days later dropped in on my buddy and give him back the shims. He was apologetic, I told him I knew that he didn't do it, but his shop boys did. He took the shims. I did compliment the painter. I told him only took a couple hours to fix.

I know, $50 is a low deductible, my insurance people tell me it will not save me much to increase it and that once I do, I'll never see it at $50 again. Been with them & Erie since '76.