Swing arm complaint has been submitted to NHTSA

[Capt.Bob]

Wratten Story

Bill,

What a fascinating story about your great great grandfather and his exploits. He was reportedly one of 500 scouts hired by the Army to find and capture Geronimo who evaded capture for quite some time. It must have been a very confusing time for both your great great grandfather and Geronimo in terms of their relationship and how the government treated Native Americans in captivity. It is also very sad that the great Geronimo succumbed to incarceration in his later years. It is said on his death bed that Geronimo proclaimed that he should have fought until he was the last man standing and been killed in battle. What further makes this story compelling is that he was incarcerated about 3 hours West of where I live at Fort Pickens in Pensacola, Florida. However, some of Geronimo's fellow Apaches felt that his armed insurrections against the Army led to harsher treatment of his fellow Native Americans.

It appears that both men were fearsome warriors in their own right. I suspect that in your younger years sans your current physical limitations that people didn't mess with you as well given your genetic background

Unlike your great great grandfather who died after falling off a horse, your fate of falling off your iron horse did not ultimately take you out like your great great grandfather. The story is just too thick with irony!

Glad you are riding and enjoying a trike. Keep us informed about how it goes with NHTSA and your concerns. We all benefit from getting a better handle on what is going on with our suspensions.

 

[wlibert]

Bill,

What a fascinating story about your great great grandfather and his exploits. He was reportedly one of 500 scouts hired by the Army to find and capture Geronimo who evaded capture for quite some time. It must have been a very confusing time for both your great great grandfather and Geronimo in terms of their relationship and how the government treated Native Americans in captivity. It is also very sad that the great Geronimo succumbed to incarceration in his later years. It is said on his death bed that Geronimo proclaimed that he should have fought until he was the last man standing and been killed in battle. What further makes this story compelling is that he was incarcerated about 3 hours West of where I live at Fort Pickens in Pensacola, Florida. However, some of Geronimo's fellow Apaches felt that his armed insurrections against the Army led to harsher treatment of his fellow Native Americans.

It appears that both men were fearsome warriors in their own right. I suspect that in your younger years sans your current physical limitations that people didn't mess with you as well given your genetic background

Unlike your great great grandfather who died after falling off a horse, your fate of falling off your iron horse did not ultimately take you out like your great great grandfather. The story is just too thick with irony!

Glad you are riding and enjoying a trike. Keep us informed about how it goes with NHTSA and your concerns. We all benefit from getting a better handle on what is going on with our suspensions.

Thank you! and there is more irony to it too.

I have a very large American Indian Heritage in my blood including an renowned American Indian Sculptor and Artist with sculptures and Art in museums around the world. His works are in places like National Museum of the American Indian for starters about 45 miles south my house. His name is Allan Houser. So I can feel the pain on both sides of the coin I guess in regards to our government and the relationship with the American Indian.

 

[wlibert]

I am on here at 4:00am EST ( I don't sleep much) to report I got a called yesterday, 7/6/17, and was told my trike is ready for pickup. There was no bearing damage in the swing arm, however there was movement. They were glad I pushed forward and got help from others to shine some light on the situation and show them pictures of a situation that quite likely could be occurring given the rubber debris behind the caps. Every thing but the shocks were replaced in the rear of my trike that is suspension related including a rear motor mount of some sort.

I was informed that the rubber fragments that I discovered and so did others on this forum and one other are NOT normal. It is excessive wear. At worst there should be nothing more than a fine black powder in there. Root cause: unkown

I need to update the other forum and then go to a third where I started a thread last night explaining this same issue.

I will not declare any victory until I have 2 to 3 hundred miles on my trike to ensure all of the symptoms are gone. I will also continue to watch this issue here and on the other forums and keep people updated as the NHTSA complaint moves along, hopefully! Feel free to contact me here or via email: wlibert@hotmail.com

Thank you everyone who has participated in this thread. Problem or not you all made a contribution and that's what forums should be about.

 

[wlibert]

I picked up my trike today and well I got a problem and this damn thing is too tight. You gotta look at the picture at the bottom to understand.

Before I left the dealership the director of Customer Relations that has been very helpful and professional in the effort to correct this issue wanted to show me the parts from the swing arm, tell me what they found, and then review what was done to rectify the situation so here is what I was told

• The rubber wear seen in the area combined with the pictures causes concern in their minds so that is why they decided to replace everything - thank you everyone who participated for sending me pictures. They showed my the rubber mounts and see where they are worn but root cause: unknown
  
• They did not find damage bearings in the swing arm and showed me bearings. But, the rubber shavings generate concern that something is going on in there
  
• The darting off the road issue I reported - they were finally able to reproduce it and they said after rebuilding every thing the dart issue is no longer there. And the were firm about this, the trike will never hold a straight line on a road with a crown. It's the same as a car. It will ways drift away from the crown in the road. If it's climbing the crown then the rear end is not in alignment. A two wheeler can do a better job of dealing with a road with a crown in it. They said like car and unlike a motorcycle there is a lot of wind hitting both the airing and the fenders it going to have an effect.
  
• Inability to get belt deflection correct. They told me that when they set the belt deflection right after they picked up the belt did tighten further however once they replaced everything and aligned the rear end the belt deflection could be properly set
  

The following parts were replaced:

Pivot shaft qty: 1

Rear engine isolators qty: 2

Pivot shaft nut qty: 2

Cup washer qty: 2

Pivot bearing qty: 2

Labor N/C normal cost 3.75 hrs @ $102.00

They also told me:

• The herky jerky motion when giving the trike throttle or letting off the trottle is gone - Yes it is
  
• The transmission shifts should be clicks not clunks and there will be times when I shift that I think I missed a gear - Yes the shifting sound is significantly quieter
  
• Please go to this section of road and I will be able to drive on a flat surface at 55mph and it's on my way home. Call us when you get home and tell us your findings
  
• And lastly they said thank you for your calmness and polite attitude with us. It was a delicate situation and you handled with out loosing your cool and convey a stiff message in regards to your actions without a threatening ton. Thank you for not throwing around names in regards to this and finger pointing
  

The last thing I did was ask them for help to make this issue more visible and they said that is up to HD but it works like this. When a customer makes it to the Customer Relations Management Team the management team is required to document the whole situation, submit any pictures they take, and turn in all parts that are replaced. All of this effort is done but the customer relations staff and a report is submitted to HD. And I was told that parts when parts fail that were designed for longevity fail the parts there is a process to record that information in the work order and flag it as requiring additional attention.

How true is all that I have no idea.

I have two other forums involved now and I need to update the threads there but be rest assured I am now in this for the for long haul.

So I got could use some help and and it's easy!

I can't get this F'ing helmet off of my head. I chit you not, damn it. This is the third time. I had to have it cut off the last time at a dealership. I thought they were going to open up my throat with the cut off wheel. The quick release won't detach. I can't get the strap to loosen up, and the strap is so tight I can't slide it up over my chin. Fortunately, I just got a text from wife and she is on her way home. She thinks it's going to take her about an hour and half.

 

[MikeyTX]

Sharp scissors ? Stand in front of a mirror so you don't stab yourself.

 

[Gorilla]

That is the reason I gave up on using those quick release for the helmet strap. They either got stuck or broke. Good luck getting it loose.

 

[MikeyTX]

Yeah that ! A lot of shops here in TX have quit carrying them because they have the nasty habit of coming open at the wrong time.

 

[mirider]

Before I left the dealership the director of Customer Relations that has been very helpful and professional in the effort to correct this issue wanted to show me the parts from the swing arm, tell me what they found, and then review what was done to rectify the situation so here is what I was told

• The rubber wear seen in the area combined with the pictures causes concern in their minds so that is why they decided to replace everything - thank you everyone who participated for sending me pictures. They showed my the rubber mounts and see where they are worn but root cause: unknown
  
• They did not find damage bearings in the swing arm and showed me bearings. But, the rubber shavings generate concern that something is going on in there
  
• The darting off the road issue I reported - they were finally able to reproduce it and they said after rebuilding every thing the dart issue is no longer there. And the were firm about this, the trike will never hold a straight line on a road with a crown. It's the same as a car. It will ways drift away from the crown in the road. If it's climbing the crown then the rear end is not in alignment. A two wheeler can do a better job of dealing with a road with a crown in it. They said like car and unlike a motorcycle there is a lot of wind hitting both the airing and the fenders it going to have an effect.
  
• Inability to get belt deflection correct. They told me that when they set the belt deflection right after they picked up the belt did tighten further however once they replaced everything and aligned the rear end the belt deflection could be properly set
  

The following parts were replaced:

Pivot shaft qty: 1

Rear engine isolators qty: 2

Pivot shaft nut qty: 2

Cup washer qty: 2

Pivot bearing qty: 2

Labor N/C normal cost 3.75 hrs @ $102.00

They also told me:

• The herky jerky motion when giving the trike throttle or letting off the throttle is gone - Yes it is
  
• The transmission shifts should be clicks not clunks and there will be times when I shift that I think I missed a gear - Yes the shifting sound is significantly quieter
  
• Please go to this section of road and I will be able to drive on a flat surface at 55mph and it's on my way home. Call us when you get home and tell us your findings
  
• And lastly they said thank you for your calmness and polite attitude with us. It was a delicate situation and you handled with out loosing your cool and convey a stiff message in regards to your actions without a threatening tone. Thank you for not throwing around names in regards to this and finger pointing
  

The last thing I did was ask them for help to make this issue more visible and they said that is up to HD but it works like this. When a customer makes it to the Customer Relations Management Team the management team is required to document the whole situation, submit any pictures they take, and turn in all parts that are replaced. All of this effort is done but the customer relations staff and a report is submitted to HD. And I was told that parts when parts fail that were designed for longevity fail the parts there is a process to record that information in the work order and flag it as requiring additional attention.

After reading and re-reading this post four or five times I am still somewhat confused as to what the problem was or if there even was a problem ??? Sometimes weird things happen and your alignment issue was hopefully solved. The real question should be what caused the issue in the first place. I note the dealer replaced a bunch of parts but were they bad or did they just shot-gun it? You state they told you the swing arm bearings were OK so what did they say caused the debris you found ?

IMO the NHTSA is unlikely to take any action without some definitive problem documented and I doubt HD will either. Glad you apparently got the problem fixed whatever it was. Please keep us informed of any future developments.

 

[rhino 2]

Sometime Sh*t just happens......

 

[headheaded]

on my trike the pivot shaft was loose and it wore on the bushings. this allowed the shaft to move around inside of the bushings. my swingarm bearings were fine. i could see the play in my swingarm when jacking the trike up.

 

[wlibert]

After reading and re-reading this post four or five times I am still somewhat confused as to what the problem was or if there even was a problem ??? Sometimes weird things happen and your alignment issue was hopefully solved. The real question should be what caused the issue in the first place. I note the dealer replaced a bunch of parts but were they bad or did they just shot-gun it? You state they told you the swing arm bearings were OK so what did they say caused the debris you found ?

IMO the NHTSA is unlikely to take any action without some definitive problem documented and I doubt HD will either. Glad you apparently got the problem fixed whatever it was. Please keep us informed of any future developments.

I doubt any one will take action either. The offered no explanation about root cause. They only said the rubber in there should be black dust not shavings. No other issues were found however they were concern after seeing the pictures and they couldn't get the belt deflection set properly.

I worked for a local state county where I live. People would try and try to get traffic lights and stop signs. Didn't happen until enough people were injured or killed. Sad...

 

[rhino 2]

I doubt any one will take action either. The offered no explanation about root cause. They only said the rubber in there should be black dust not shavings. No other issues were found however they were concern after seeing the pictures and they couldn't get the belt deflection set properly.

I worked for a local state county where I live. People would try and try to get traffic lights and stop signs. Didn't happen until enough people were injured or killed. Sad...

So Bill, Where do we/you stand now?.....Did they fix your problem to your satisfaction:Shrug:.....

 

[MikeyTX]

I wanna know if he ever got his helmet off ? Man, life would be kinda rough having to sleep with it on. Worse would be having to shower with it on. Oh ........... Wait ............. I recall having to do that in the corps. :clapping: