My Trike

[LarryA]

for what it's worth..... I'm using a Dunlop 4.00x18 bias up front, nitto 225x40x18 radials on the rear..... the o.d. of the rears is near what the original tire dia. was, I wanted to keep the same gearing as the Datona. That said, the combination, in my opinion, works great. Now, this is the only trike I have ever ridden, but, at this point in time, I see no need to change anything.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Thank you for the feedback, I just wanted some rider input and not a salesperson input.

I have to decide on pivot plates, make my own and weld them in the down tubes, or purchase a set of machined pivot tabs that insert into the down tube and are welded into place. I have to locate them first if I can.

So the triple trees take a 39mm down tube, not but a hair larger than a 1 1/2 pipe, that is what I am using in the mock up, and the trees seem to tight down nice on them.... am I wrong...

Should the down tubes be thicker than stock, to me they look like 1/8th thick, and I was thinking they should be at least 1/4" thick down tubes due to the rake and stress felt below the lower tree area, or the thinner stock with stronger pipe inserts in the triple tree area for that added strength ?

 

[LarryA]

I would be a little concerned about tubes of only 1/8 in. wall. I used 1/4 wall drawn over mandrel tubing, which is I believe, just mild steel that is welded and sized od and id. , maybe chromemoly or more exotic materials would work in 1/8 wall??? I was wanting to accumulate front end weight also, maybe you have the same thoughts? the fork tubes are sprung weight anyhow. I suppose some, or all of the rocker weight is unsprung? If I remember, Rex used solid stainless on his down tubes? Hopefully he will share his opinion on this subject! just my 02.:xzqxz:

 

[grandpanystrom61]

I want a solid front end, one that can withstand a few wheelies, not that I want to do them, but they do occur, LOL

The rake is just enough that spring tubes and hydraulic tubes will not function properly, all I have read says they have a 45 degree limit, and that is pushing them at or beyond their limits.

It will come together.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Whew....

Ok....that is around a .035" difference in diameter. That is as good as a mile in a machinist world.

Even though the bolts tighten up you will probably only be contacting in two points solidly in the bore.

Weld them to the yokes or make new yokes or make the legs much closer to your mm.

Bought forks typically are chromoly or some related alloy that is hardened. Harder and thinner. Most anything you can job shop will be plain soft A36 to 1018 mild steel. It will need to be much thicker to have the same strength. I would think anything from .200 wall and up would be good.

I started making mine from stainless tubing machined on the outside. But they did not turn out right. I then went to solid stainless bar. I did drill them deep into the ends.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Interesting how I keep learning new things.

I would love to have all that is needed for in house springer build, but I do not and by the time I get it all I will out price myself, if I even had room for it in the garage.

I am going to see what FranksForks will charge for made down tubes, if they will even make them for me. Get a qoute from them.

On the other side, might have to do it myself, so what can I do, well I can get the end of a solid stainless steel tube milled so the pivot tabs at the end of the down tubes are as needed. I was thinking 3/8" thick fork pivot plate and 5/8" thick rocker arms.

Is being milled out of a solid piece better strength than cutting the slit in a tube and welding a pivot plate into place ?

My mind says the milled fork would be stronger, please correct me if I am wrong.

Rex, see your point of the 1 1/2 in the 39mm clamp jaws, wow, hope all works with these trees, but now is the time for change if it needs to happen.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

There is a lot of grades of stainless steel, finding the right size is my secret.

303 solid stainless steel bar with a 1 9/16"OD, cost for 38 inch's 153.68, or the 1018 solid cold rolled steel rod at 1 9/16" OD at a cost of 61.18, not sure if either is what I want, the spec's on both read like they are good, tolerance on how straight is probably the more important factor along with strength.

I got a little lost and confused on fork design, figured out my mess and now working the plan for the mock up.

I want to center the rocker's width with the fork tube center, cut the 5/8" wide slot down the center at the end of the bar, drill the pivot hole dia., shape the ends for the bullet look, or do it first before cutting the slot out, machinist decision.

I am still looking over metric size suppliers, fun stuff, LOL

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Mine are 1-1/2 diameter 304 Stainless.

Way overkill, but my tubing would not stay straight as I welded and machined on it.

The eyes are welded on.



I really wanted something I could make shiney, so mind was set on SS.

But mild steel would be a lot more forgiving and easier to work with.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

So thought I was onto something, the 1 9/16" thick would work, NOT, wow, a tight as fitting clamp on the tree.So even a 39.53 mm dia. metal flash light would not fit into the tree clamp, removed the screw from clamp thinking I could spread it open, not much give at all and thea flash light would still not slide inSo the larger than 39mm is not working. I do not think getting 1 1/2" stock chrome plated will equal 39mm's, getting a fine hair closer, but not the exact size.Oh why not weld the down tubes to the trees, these 39mm trees are aluminum, begining to feel I screwed myself again.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Lathe turn the od. Or bore the clamps.

Which is easy for me to say.......

If you were next door I could give you a hand every once in a while.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

I finally did find 39mm dia. 1045 TG&P bar, but I have to be a buisness or shop to order it from them.

I have learned the more carbon the steel has the harder it is to weld and machine. Not the best for these two, but is stronger than 1018, so is it usable for the task ???

I will check with one locally and see if they will order it for me.

I really thought the clamp would spread open more, but it just does not give that way, but Rex you are right, that small distance that 1 1/2" lacks is just enough so that true solid clamping force does not occur.

Oh, crap, my daughter's boyfriends shop should beable to do it for me, duh!

but I do not want to purchase it if it is not suitable for being front down tubes. Help.

 

[LarryA]

Andy....that material sounds pretty good to me. Stronger than 1018 cr and the ground finish should make it straighter than 1018 ....One thing about the 1/4 wall dom I discovered was not to my liking, was that it varied in straightness about .010/ ft., but the tube was straight overall, in other words it snaked .01 on this 12 in then snaked back in the next 12 in. the whole length. Not a problem you might say! well my trees were about 8/9 in apart. when i went to clamp the tubes, the ends were not inline down at the rocker pivots. WTH. that's when the discovery was made!....I ended up having to rotate both tubes just right to get the ends to line up..:xzqxz: then I welded in the slugs that were machined to fit the rockers.

Just another situation where things should have "gone right" but didn't.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Well does the daughter's boyfriend's shop have machine and fab tools?

If so it looks like more daughter time is in order....lol

That metal would be fine.

Of course you could use the larger inch stuff and turn the ends to fit in the clamps.

 

[Sidecarbill]

I don't know if you're building your own front end because you want to which is fine. But tcbros.com has a really nice springer seems to be pretty good quality for 6 bills you might want to check it out. They have a video of how its made.

 

[stacebg]

Good morning to everyone, well I have spent some time trying to get the drawing program to work for me. I have what was required to run it, but I think I lost patience with age, or like other programs a short course in how to use them is needed. Not giving up, just not making head way as fast as I wanted.Okay, tire size, wow, been going back and forth on what I should do, what is best for the trike.I remember on this 3speed bicycle I had, chopper it was called and had a little front wheel with lots of trail I am sure. It was great until high speeds down the step hill, front end would wobble uncontrollably. Usually a spill on the pavement followed.So does the design of the drop pivot with a tighter trail eliminate this with a small tire ? or does it still happen?Finding a 18 x 2.5" Harley rim has not been easy on ebay. 19" rim size seems what stock was on a lot of them, but can not go past 12 1/2" axle height. Okay seems house is up, need to take care of things.

even without a cad or drawing program if you can draw what you want full size it can be traced

i flame cut these from a full size template then machined the holes

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Thanks sidecarbill, the address did not work and so I could not check out the set of forks.I am rebuilding the front end because it was wrong and the set of springers on the trike are bent, worn, and showing signs of fatigue stress. This just gave me the chance to correct what was wrong and build a set of forks for the trike, most all home built trikes require custom forks for the trike. Probably because of the fact that most have rake's past 45 degrees.I do not have all that is needed to make them, so I will get help from local shops I hope, or pay the big boys in the city, but I will get it done.Working on the rocker pattern and template, than I get to see if it all works on the mock up.Again a huge "Thank You" for everyone's help on this.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Lathe turn the od. Or bore the clamps.

Which is easy for me to say.......

If you were next door I could give you a hand every once in a while.

:xzqxz:, now to many choices of how to get it done. There is room to bore the clamps out to 1 9/16" with out issue and is looking like the way I may go. Getting the 39mm stock seems to be more trouble and expensive than it needs to be, but one more to check out before giving up on 39mm stock.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

I do need help deciding what to purchase for the down tubes.

[h=5]1045 - Steel Round Bar (METRIC) TGP- 1045 ROUND BAR (METRIC SIZE) 40MM OD 36" LONG[/h][h=6]PID: 22053[/h]	$0.00	$142.83		x $285.66
Add Reference Numbers (Optional)
[h=5]304/304L Round Bar - METRIC- T-304 STAINLESS ROUND BAR (METRIC SIZE) 40MM OD 36"[/h][h=6]PID: 22262[/h]	$0.00	$365.15		x $730.30
Add Reference Numbers (Optional)
[h=5]Stainless T-304/304L Cold Finish Round 1.625" Cut to: 36" [/h][h=6]PID: 96[/h]Okay, if I use the 40mm bar I figured I would go with recommendation of machinist, do the bore the clamps or turn rod to 39mm dia. Now not happy with the price on 40mm 304 bar, so think I pass on the middle one, mainly because the last one is nicely priced and yes it would cost more to turn it to 39mm from the 1 5/8" it is. So do you have to heat treat the 304 for it's strength ? I read where 1045 will not get it's true strength unless it is heat treated, do all forks get built with out this heat treatment ?, or just the best built is heat treated for max strength.	$0.00	$103.92		x $207.84

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

First......it does NOT have to be solid bar.

The most common thing is 1-5/8 x .250 DOM tube with a plug welded button on top and a plug welded eye at the bottom.

DOM is not perfectly straight, but is one of the straightest tubings.

I used solid bacause I wanted Stainless. The heat of machining and welding easily blows stainless. I tryed and could not keep ss tube straight enough. That is why I went solid. Was NOT for the strength.

The 300 series ss is not for heat treating. It is roughly the same load capability as the 1018/1045 plain is. As in it will deflect about the same per pound load. Ss has more memory though, so it will "spring back" much more than the plain carbon steel.

The tgp would be the straightest of the choices and the easiest to weld. Unless you have a welder well experienced with ss you may want to stay carbon.

So.. .all your listed choices and dom would make a good fork ...the end difference is what you can work with and what you want it to look like.

 

[Sidecarbill]

Thanks sidecarbill, the address did not work and so I could not check out the set of forks.I am rebuilding the front end because it was wrong and the set of springers on the trike are bent, worn, and showing signs of fatigue stress. This just gave me the chance to correct what was wrong and build a set of forks for the trike, most all home built trikes require custom forks for the trike. Probably because of the fact that most have rake's past 45 degrees.I do not have all that is needed to make them, so I will get help from local shops I hope, or pay the big boys in the city, but I will get it done.Working on the rocker pattern and template, than I get to see if it all works on the mock up.Again a huge "Thank You" for everyone's help on this.

Thats unfortunate I just tried and it worked for me:Shrug:. You could do a youtube search for tcbros.com and it will come up. The interesting thing about that springer is the fork legs are one piece forgings, gotta heavy duty look to them.

And your trike maybe over 45 degrees but mines homemade, and it doesn't come close to that. When your building your own you get to decide what you want. A rake over 45 degrees certainly is laying the forks down. Why do you have to have such an extreme angle? Are you going for the long chopper look? Alright I'm sorry to many questions, just thinking financially it would be better to buy something thats allready made.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

It did finally work for me Sidecarbill, in fact I just got done looking it over again.I do not care for the style forks the make, the stock lengths also make it hard for them to fit the length of fork I need.Rake, yes we can set as we desire, but we have to keep in mind the front wheel rotation and clearance needed on the back side of tire.This frame design was to fit the fiberglass body, so narrow 7" wide trees is the max that fits with some adjustments. The rake angle allows the front tire to move forward away from the riders feet and out from under the body. The trike did not have things done correctly from start, so just getting things they way they should be for me. You do not want to lift the front end up high into the riders vision area, nor do I want a nose diving downward, so there is a fine medium point to it all and I feel I found it, at least to me it feels good. My choice maybe, just hope it is a good one. Just like the metal, many could be used, again a choice what I want, my problem, not sure what I want other than a front end that works. Do I want to chrome it out after all is built, yes I think so, I do not think powder coating would last as long as chromed.Do I want a lot of work to do, not really, but a lot of springers today have the springs up high. For my trike body this is trouble and a no fit. It is just a custom job and from what I have seen so far there is not a premade set of forks out there for me, at least not that I have found.Have a great day everyone.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

stock on mock up

bummer, can not correct the typo in the title, so yes "stuck" is the correct word, my bad.

Good day to everyone, hope all are enjoying the day.

I have read over material data, found 304 SS to be more what I will use for the fork construction.

Have gotten most all the metal in the shopping cart, but realized I am not sure of the style of suspension system yet.

Need the brake calipar in hand to see about clearance and etc., but here are pic's of the mock up so far.







Not sure why this Bird shape rocker came about, but I like it.



Dog must have bumped it, not all aligned as I left it. I used hose clamps around the tubes below and above the trees to hold them into position. Need to get the tire and tube still, but again wanted to see if all is what I wanted first.

The distance from RearPivotPoint to Axle center is 5 3/4", with the loaded compressed position of the rocker being as the set in the photos leads to a 1 1/2" trail.

Got a little depressed, got positive because I thought I had my order for metal ready, than not happy because I still not sure what I am doing. Yes I want it done, but waiting and getting all figured out before ordering anything is probably the smarter move.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

304 is a bit tougher to work with, but will be fine.

Mine is 1-1/2 304 bar.

Brake stay ideas.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Yes my curiosity was getting to me about how you did yours. It is clean and tight looking.

Funny I had already drew up a V type main axle support for the caliper, oh which looks like will be here tomorrow.

I could be wrong, just as I read over things about the different grades and getting things in the size I needed, well had 303, 304, 1045 TG&P ( something about tempering the metal after welding of any heavy type ) and I could only find 1018 flat plate for the rockers, unless I went half inch thick.

I was not sure how fast I would get to getting things chromed or powder coated, liked the look of the SS and the idea of memory ( a bit of flex ) if needed. Just thought it would be what I could work with.

I hope to get to looking over more pics, but right now the smaller dia. spring fork tube seems to allow needed room, but that is what I see now, need to get all set up on the trike so proper angles on the tubes/trees/ and all can be seen much better than.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

The caliper came today. I needed a floating style with the pistons on the outside. Spoked rim does not provide the clearance needed for new designed calipers.

The forks are setting at a 46 degree angle, just needed to get an idea if all is workable.



I guess I could just flip the rim around and than the brake system would be on the right hand side of the trike. If you have have a lock up pull it would be to the right rather than to the left into traffic ? Or is it just what side the rider likes it on ?



And after talking to the person welding for me I ordered the metal this morning, moving forward.

 

[stacebg]

The caliper came today. I needed a floating style with the pistons on the outside. Spoked rim does not provide the clearance needed for new designed calipers.

The forks are setting at a 46 degree angle, just needed to get an idea if all is workable.

View attachment 61473

I guess I could just flip the rim around and than the brake system would be on the right hand side of the trike. If you have have a lock up pull it would be to the right rather than to the left into traffic ? Or is it just what side the rider likes it on ?

View attachment 61474

And after talking to the person welding for me I ordered the metal this morning, moving forward.

the side of the caliper will NOT make the front end pull... no way no how probably put a spacer behind the disc if you need room

 

[stacebg]

The caliper came today. I needed a floating style with the pistons on the outside. Spoked rim does not provide the clearance needed for new designed calipers.

The forks are setting at a 46 degree angle, just needed to get an idea if all is workable.

View attachment 61473

I guess I could just flip the rim around and than the brake system would be on the right hand side of the trike. If you have have a lock up pull it would be to the right rather than to the left into traffic ? Or is it just what side the rider likes it on ?

View attachment 61474

And after talking to the person welding for me I ordered the metal this morning, moving forward.

have u checked your trail ??

 

[grandpanystrom61]

stacebg, yes the deminsions of it are, 5 3/4 " from pivot point to axle, springer pivoit point at 2.5 from rear pivot point.

As it sets now, rocker arm and axle are 90 degress from tube angle, one sets the loaded position here at this point.

This all gives a 1 1/2 " trail loaded, full extension brings close to 0 trail and full compression will bring you closer to 2 1/2 to 3" trail, rocker arm travel.

I have not played with it physically yet, just on paper and a little hands on. I am still waiting on welder to set my neck tube and extension piece. Than I will find out what I can truly get or can not get.

The newer style caliper's will work great for rear disc set up, when I get to it, when I looked at it yesterday it was like they were made for what I needed, LOL

Yes, I did realize that one could get some smaller spacer behind the rotor so it gave more clearance on the inside edge, and shim's and what not maybe needed so all is aligned properly, but all seems to line up and look doable.

Okay I set it up on the left side, ebay side it was a left side caliper, but when I flipped the caliper to the right, well those mounting holes would have lined up with the down tube for mounting, good be error or still just to early for me. No rush yet, have time to figure it all out after I wake up more.

 

[Sidecarbill]

I could be wrong but I don't think you'll be making any u turns on a normal road. I believe it will take a lot of room to maneuver with the forks laid down like that. But I've been wrong before.:laugh: Even with springer type forks with the angle you've got the rockers you're not going to have much suspension travel in that set up.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Of course the more forward level laying rocker arm would allow more travel of the swing distance for ext./compression, but building a springer it is said that 65 degree swing radius is needed for all to be proper. This mock up was just me playing and wanting to see what things would look like. Plus it allowed me to see what the rockers/rim placement would be if rockers were mounted by the center line of the down tubes. (spacing and all that )You say U turn, humm, not much has changed from orginal forks and I could do a 360 turn in my double car drive way, a super tight U turn NO, but it could not do it before either.I do believe, so space is on the axle for the caliper support arm, and so all keeps centered, I will have the rockers off center line of the forks. Inside edge of the rocker arm would line up with center line of the forks. Rocker arm rotation is limited to design and suspension limits, all that one needs is tobe within those limits and have those limits meet the needs of the suspension system.A mock up is done so we can see what does not work, or how screwed an idea is, but this is proven already to work and I have just followed their design and math. Yes they were dealing with a 45 degree rake, I am dealing with a 47.5 degree rake, they had non offset trees, I have offset trees, but we will see soon enough if I am wrong or not.