My Tow-Pac 14" InstaTrike Install on Ultra Classic Harley

[dadztoy]

Bob,

Really sorry to hear of all those problems with Tow Pac... When I bought my kit, I still lived in Illinois, about 90 miles north of Tow Pac, and I simply drove down to test ride one and talk with them... They were quite cooperative when I was there and bought my unit... I also had them do the install, but I was quite disappointed with it, as one day I went to remove a saddle bag, and found that the bike wiring harness was twisted around the frame and soon would chafe thru and cause bike problems...

I spent many days reworking the wire harnesses and adjusting and tweaking down force, lean stop brackets, and adjusting parallelism as well... I think the basic concept of the kit is good, but it would seem that Tow Pac may be growing a bit too fast these days trying to accommodate all brands and makes of motorcycles and their customer service and follow up is suffering... It is a pretty small operation as I remember, and they didn't have a lot of staff, so that may be part of the problem if that is still the same...

When I was there, I asked for a comparison between Tow Pack and Voyager, and I was told by the owner that the Voyager kit was actually designed by him, but due to partner incompatibility (the partners allegedly were only interested in money and not the technology) he (the owner of Tow Pac) left the Voyager Company and started Tow Pac... Now whether all that is true or not, I don't know, but that is what I was told at the time...

When I bought mine back in 2013, I paid $3K for it as it was a demo unit, I was told... It cost me about 400 dollars to paint it and another 50 bucks or so for aux lighting, so I have a total of about $3500 dollars in it... Since then, I have had to replace wheel bearings and races once due to water infiltration and am now on my second set of tires (normal wear)... I just recently readjusted my down force as there a slight difference in height from top of frame to floor level from left to right, but I haven't ridden it since the adjustment as I have been riding on two wheels here lately...

Considering that I just priced a full trike conversion for a Road Smith trike and the dealer quoted me $17,200, I think I got a bargain with the Tow Pac... True, the Tow Pac isn't the same as a full conversion, but still - - - - it does essentially the same thing for a lot less money...

So the moral of the story here is: even though it's a giant PITA trying to get your conversion fitted, it WILL be worth it in the end...

Should you have to go thru all this??? DEFINITELY NOT!!! And in the end, if Tow Pac continues this way, their business will dry up and go away as there are too many other conversion shops to chose from with assumably better customer service...

I will do what I can to help you along with the conversion, and it sounds like your well on the way, so hang in there brother - - we'll get this done, and get you on a trike, and get all the issues ironed out... :clapping:

Les

PS - looked up your town and see that your down in Bayou country - nice!! Was looking to see if I could take a ride down and help, but it's a bit far for a day trip!!

 

[HarleyBob]

Les

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

I just stopped for lunch, I'm working on the frame on the bike, now that I finally

have the spacers missing from the kit. I got it almost all LocTite and torqued

down! Looking good and sturdy! I should finish up in an hour or so. I'm taking my

time and double checking everything. I'm off for 5 days starting Wednesday, I

hope to be test riding this weekend. I'm going to use the wheel studs that came

with the kit. After installing the spacer, they give me a good 1/2" of thread per lug

nut. Very hard to find the longer studs, without knowing what type they are. I'm

hopping the factory will know! My mic. is at my shop and I will measure them

tomorrow when I go to work. I need to find out the knurl size to get the right ones.

I may have to go with the ones I have.

I'm not disappointed with the basic kit. After paint, lights etc. I will have about 5,500.00 in it.

The part I like about it is I can two wheel when ever I want, and the cost.

 

[HarleyBob]

Your experiences with this kit are better than any review you'll ever read. Real world experience start to finish. I've kicked around the idea of putting something like this on my Kawasaki. It definitely won't be a tow pac. That reverse sounds useless for that gradient and no passenger.

A few years back I help a friend with a Voyager kit already on his Harley. We never could get it set right,

I didn't like how it was put on his bike held on by 1/4" u bolts to the frame at the bottom leaving very little ground

clearance. Didn't look strong to me! I do like how Tow Pac is mounted, much stronger and will stay in place and not slide

around like the Voyager kit did, and you sacrifice no lost of ground clearance. The reverse sucks so far on Tow-Pac but still have to test it.

If you can afford to put a reverse on you motorcycle trans or push it, then that may be the way to go. Other than the reverse

problem their instruction are lacking but I got that part completed all torqued down today and it is strong and looks good.

Still yet to test drive and hope to do that next weekend.

 

[HarleyBob]

Today I finally finished step one.

All brackets and parts are installed on my motorcycle.

Everything torqued down and Red LokTite put on all bolts and nuts,

They are all locking nuts but I used lokTite anyway.

These parts will stay on the motorcycle.

Next will be trimming the side covers just a little at the bottom to fit brackets.

Replacing the saddle bags.

Doing the electrical wiring under the seat and running the wires to the back of the motorcycle for tail lights. This will in tale more than I first thought. The lights must draw current from the battery and the signal from the wiring harness. So two Items do this on a Harley for about $120.00. To go direct to the harness is not correct and can cause problems.

At that point the bike part of this build will be finished. Electrical Parts are on order Now.

***Note the kit does Not come with tail lights, just reflectors***

So you can skip this part if you don't want tail lights on the cart.



The frame looks Very good and it is strong! Notice it is high on the bike and will not hang low and drag like other kits I have seen do! ThumbUp

 

[Pooch]

Thank you for posting this, very good information and pictures.

 

[dadztoy]

Sub-frame looks good Bob... May I suggest you go with LED lighting to keep the current draw down... That way you can probably go directly to the particular lights directly... That is what I did with mine and encountered no problems to date...

 

[HarleyBob]

Sub-frame looks good Bob... May I suggest you go with LED lighting to keep the current draw down... That way you can probably go directly to the particular lights directly... That is what I did with mine and encountered no problems to date...

Les

I'm going with LED 6" round lights. They draw very little, and I thought the same as you and we are probably right but both Harley and the factory, for the electronics, assured me that wiring direct into the wiring harness can cause problem no matter the draw. I know they want to sell there product but I don't want to take any chances. I can't see how .0654 amps. could hurt anything. Factory guy said it's not the wire it's the computer. Don't want to take a chance. I know it sounds like I bought a bill of goods!

A guy I know changed his stock Harley horn to an aftermarket one, on his new bike. He was having all kinda of problems, so he brought it to Harley. They found out it was the new horn not being accepted by the computer.

Next thing we will have to buy Harley Gas! LOL!

 

[HarleyBob]

This is where the Two wheel Cart will attach to the motorcycle in three places. Very good strong attachment in my opinion! On the hitch attachment, in the center, there in another large bolt that you can't see in the picture. Also of course you can't see the left attachment that is just like the right one you can see.

 

[HarleyBob]

Thank you for posting this, very good information and pictures.

Thanks Jim, I tell it like I see it and don't hold back any punches.

I'm hoping people can benefit from this,

I hope people will even smell the paint when I get the parts back from the paint shop! LOL!

 

[dadztoy]

This is where the Two wheel Cart will attach to the motorcycle in three places. Very good strong attachment in my opinion! On the hitch attachment, in the center, there in another large bolt that you can't see in the picture. Also of course you can't see the left attachment that is just like the right one you can see.

View attachment 51516

Yep, agree Bob... I have had my cart off and on several times over the last few years and there is no issue with the attachment points... I did have an issue with the left attachment bolt cross threading once when I tried to remove it, but running a threading die up the bolt cleaned up the thread nicely and it was usable again... Looks like your getting close - I am anxious to see the finished product and hear your thoughts on ride and handling...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

I had a long talk with the factory about my issues. They are staying with their recommendation on 1/8" gear mesh and 1/8" motor to tire clearance. I told him I would not go with that and he did like my idea about the spacer and longer studs and said he was fine with that. He also told me I was #3 on purchasing the larger tire kit with the reverse and the other two reported no problems.

Here is Tow Pac's patented independent suspension. I'm yet to put it to the test.

Seems the A frame swivels and you get the suspension when the bolt stop pushes agents the hard rubber in cased in a metal frame. He said it works well. He said you get about 2" of suspension and that is all you need!

I'll have to report on this!

 

[dadztoy]

Hummmm..... You'll have to report back on that suspension and let us know how it works... Mine has regular torsion arm suspension - I forget the manufacturer but I could look at them and find out as it's right on the tag on the torsion arm...

Regarding the reverse issues, a sample of 3 units is not very large... I think your spacer idea is superior to their minimal spacing - I'm not very impressed with their answers...

Sounds like your making progress Bob, you could bolt it up to the bike without the fenders and go for a little test ride - whatcha think???

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

I hope this video works of the reverse! Remember Time, Speed and distance so the outside of the tire will be going a little faster!

[video]https://www.facebook.com/bob.josey.3[/video]

Let me know if you can watch the video! It's the last thing I posted

on my Face Book page!

 

[GRR]

I hope this video works of the reverse! Remember Time, Speed and distance so the outside of the tire will be going a little faster!

[video]https://www.facebook.com/bob.josey.3[/video]

Let me know if you can watch the video! It's the last thing I posted

on my Face Book page!

I could see the video. You don't need to back up fast, so speed wouldn't be my concern.

My concern is if that little motor has enough torque. They have a pretty big gear on the reverse which helps lessen the load on the motor, but it has to move a lot of weight.

 

[dadztoy]

Yeah, video looks good Bob... The Wing backs up at about 1.5 MPH or so... Not sure how the wheel movement in your video equates to that but like GRR said, it's more about the torque and moving a #1000 motorcycle than it is speed...

I looked all over the Internet and could NOT find any demo videos of the Tow Pac reverse kit so we'll just have to wait and see how yours turns out I guess...

I roughly timed the wheel rotation from your video and it looks to be in the area of 4 RPM... If in fact that's true and if it maintains that speed under load, that would be about (assuming my 6th grade math is correct) 4 feet (47.1") per revolution or about 16 feet per minute... To my way of thinking, a 20-30 second run of the motor should be sufficient for most back up needs...

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think those numbers work... 3.14 x15" = 47.1" X 4 = 188.4" divided by 12 = 15.7 feet per minute...

Should work - eh???

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Yeah, video looks good Bob... The Wing backs up at about 1.5 MPH or so... Not sure how the wheel movement in your video equates to that but like GRR said, it's more about the torque and moving a #1000 motorcycle than it is speed...

I looked all over the Internet and could NOT find any demo videos of the Tow Pac reverse kit so we'll just have to wait and see how yours turns out I guess...

I roughly timed the wheel rotation from your video and it looks to be in the area of 4 RPM... If in fact that's true and if it maintains that speed under load, that would be about (assuming my 6th grade math is correct) 4 feet (47.1") per revolution or about 16 feet per minute... To my way of thinking, a 20-30 second run of the motor should be sufficient for most back up needs...

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think those numbers work... 3.14 x15" = 47.1" X 4 = 188.4" divided by 12 = 15.7 feet per minute...

Should work - eh???

Les

Thanks Les

For your input.

They say 20' per minute.

I'm looking at a 900# bike + a 200# Cart + Me 200# = 1300# + or - a few #

I'm not sure of the weights!

***Oh wait, Bird Day is almost here !

You may want to add a few L Bees to that total! LOL! ***

 

[HarleyBob]

I could see the video. You don't need to back up fast, so speed wouldn't be my concern.

My concern is if that little motor has enough torque. They have a pretty big gear on the reverse which helps lessen the load on the motor, but it has to move a lot of weight.

George

I'm thinking My bike, the cart and myself together will be about 1300#

So I will put it to the test and we will see!

 

[HarleyBob]

Drive wheel put back together.

I found that the large sprocket was not torqued to 24 FP. when I took it off. So I put Red LocTite on the 5- grade 8 bolts and got them right.

Then I put some adhesive on the spacer and centered it.

In the picture it looks off a little but it is not! This was completed at 6 AM this morning.

So now it is time to put the wheel on and start putting the cart together.

 

[HarleyBob]

Cart on bike! the wheel base looks much wider on the bike than I thought it would!

Tires look Big and nice! Saddle bags and side covers stay off until it's all adjusted.

The finders, fender "T" brackets and rear frame covers are still at the paint shop!

Lunch time and some adjustment reading!





***I think before adjusting anything, I will take a short test ride to let things settle, if you will. First I will make sure all bolts are tight!***

 

[HarleyBob]

I've been riding it around our yard. Note how wide the wheel base is compared to our Big SUV! Wide to me mean more stability, So far handles like a dream at low speeds!

 

[HarleyBob]

Toe was out a bit so I will ride it around the yard and down a little street today.

Tomorrow the Grand Kids get to ride with Paw Paw around the yard. Then Friday and Sunday I will get back to work on adjustments and wiring.

I'm going back to playing on the bike!

***Fenders, fender "T" braces, and back frame covers are at the Painter! Saddle bags and side covers go on after adjustments and tail lights and reverse wires are installed. Side covers need to be trimmed a little at the very bottom. Then some Test driving at faster speeds! Still a bit to do! ***

People may think I'm meticulous, I am, My background is in mechanical engineering and Jet Aircraft Mechanics. All those have to be precise, and I want my stuff right on a machine I will have the wife on and be going down the road at 70 M.P.H. !

 

[BillR]

That is looking real good, Bob.

Pick one for me. :bass:

 

[dadztoy]

Cart on bike! the wheel base looks much wider on the bike than I thought it would!

Tires look Big and nice! Saddle bags and side covers stay off until it's all adjusted.

The finders, fender "T" brackets and rear frame covers are still at the paint shop!

Lunch time and some adjustment reading!

View attachment 51631

View attachment 51632

***I think before adjusting anything, I will take a short test ride to let things settle, if you will. First I will make sure all bolts are tight!***

Looks great Bob!!!

Yeah, the wheelbase on most outriggers is larger than a regular trike conversion... Mine at the outside of the fenders is right around 64"... That's why I take the fenders off when I load it into the pickup bed as I have about 62" between the side walls of the bed... Outside of wheels is about 60" on mine...

Try and keep the toe (parallelism) to 1/16" or less... It will take some time to get it this close but will pay dividends in tire wear...

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours... We're in Chicago (suburbs) for a few days at the daughters celebrating Thanksgiving with the daughter, husband, and granddaughter... Have a wonderful holiday...

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

Looks great Bob!!!

Yeah, the wheelbase on most outriggers is larger than a regular trike conversion... Mine at the outside of the fenders is right around 64"... That's why I take the fenders off when I load it into the pickup bed as I have about 62" between the side walls of the bed... Outside of wheels is about 60" on mine...

Try and keep the toe (parallelism) to 1/16" or less... It will take some time to get it this close but will pay dividends in tire wear...

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours... We're in Chicago (suburbs) for a few days at the daughters celebrating Thanksgiving with the daughter, husband, and granddaughter... Have a wonderful holiday...

Les

Thanks Les

Same to you, Happy Thanksgiving. I road the grand Kids around the yard on the bike today, they loved it!

 

[HarleyBob]

******THE TEST RIDE******

I got it all adjusted in about 1-1/2 hours this morning.

I didn't fool around with the down pressure.

Then took it for a test drive. The following was the test results on different types of roads.

I've been riding 3 hours!

Test #1--- 0 to 20 M.P.H. No shimmy as the Harley free-wheeler I rented did at low speed. Very smooth out the gate.

Test #2--- 0 to 50 M.P.H. Easy steering, one hand no problem, No pressure needed to keep it straight.

Test #3--- 0 to 65 M.P.H. Same as test # two, curved well. not shacking very smooth ride.

Test #4--- 0 to 75 M.P.H. Same as all of the above. No finders on the bike to test shake. Smooth. Now I didn't go one handed on this test, But I could have.

It short I'm more than satisfied with the performance of this kit! In my opinion it out rode any Harley kit I have tested.

Suspension worked awesome, better than Harley's straight axle set up! Stability was superb!

Now I'm yet to complete the set up and test the reverse and the finders on the kit.

More riding is in order and more testing, but so far I'm glad I got this Tow-Pac Kit!

 

[HarleyBob]

Harley wires and isolator, neat under the seat Two Hot and Two ground not connected but for tail lights and reverse.



Tail lights wire harness run to back awaiting plug that's on order.

Also notice tail light wiring on cart run and awaiting fenders.







Factory wiring for reverse that will attach to finder skirts, I will add wire loom!

Note the switch that will go through hole in fender skirt I will drill, the lighted Red switch is sideways in picture.



Blue tape is just temporary to hold wires out the way so I can ride awaiting paint job on fenders!

Tie wraps are loose and I have extra wire until I can complete the job. Could be two weeks for paint job!

Next will be to test the reverse and test the tail lights. Also more riding and testing!

Then readjusting and checking wheel alignments and replace saddle bags!

***This bike needs to be washed and waxed!

That will happen soon!***

 

[dadztoy]

Looks great Bob - keep the pics coming!!

Les

 

[HarleyBob]

The tail lights are still not working right. I installed Rivco kit HD007-13 on my bike harness under the seat, then had to put in Rivco GL18007-IU still not working right. brake lights stay on all the time, everything else works. Now they are telling me I need Rivco kit EC 07664 to add to and go between the two kits I already have installed, because my cart tail lights are four wire and the bike is a five wire. So it's on order and shipped out.

These are my Big 6" tail lights I'm testing, I wanted surface mount LED's in 4" but couldn't find them. I'll have to use gaskets and a little caulking , because the finder have a slight round to them and the lights are flat.

I'm still waiting on the painter. This morning I will ride over to his shop on the bike to check on my parts. His shop is only 5 miles away.

 

[HarleyBob]

********************Reverse Test*************************

Save your money, $400.00 for the reverse ordered with the kit. Now it is a 'Reverse assist' Only. It will not back up at all, in short grass in my yard. On flat lever concrete it will but So Very slow. Not to be used with a passenger.

You have to help it along with your legs if it's not on a flat smooth concrete surface. Put your $400.00 toward a reverse put on by the dealer. It's also hard to disengage with your foot, you have to reach down to the pavement with your hand to disengage or pull the heel off your riding boot! It's not worth much!