Brakes and Clutch

[East Coast]

It don't work that way. It has to displace and come up to pressure too.
Sorta like you could block off the gas line and you would use absolutely no gas at all.
It just don't work that way.

oh ok

 

[vw driver]

Dune buggy and sand rail brake parts. Many styles and applications to choose from.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Sorry for sounding so uhhhh snarky.
No offense intended friend. Not very social, I get along with machines better than I do with people.

- - - Updated - - -

In this pic you can see my unusually long for a motorcycle brake lever and the vw master cylinder mounted down the frame tube.

 

[East Coast]

Sorry for sounding so uhhhh snarky.
No offense intended friend. Not very social, I get along with machines better than I do with people.

- - - Updated - - -

In this pic you can see my unusually long for a motorcycle brake lever and the vw master cylinder mounted down the frame tube.

did you just use a normal vw master cylinder? do you got a better pic of your set up?

 

[stinger608]

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/11222-New-VW-Build/page2

He has some great pictures of him modding the brakes and clutch setup.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Excellent find.

No I do not have more pics handy. I can get some later. I am out of town. Have been to a Lecrae concert near atlanta.

 

[East Coast]

thanks

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I forgot to get a pic of the lever. But i have a pic of the master cylinder.*

I use a 22mm master, but I have front disc brakes on the back of mine, plus a fairly long lever.

Single piston/circuit master.

 

[East Coast]

something like this should work? just have to weld something up, and get a single circuit master cylinder?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

That does look like it would work.
Now to figure out how to get it on the scooter.

Mine is very similar. I cut the pivot out of the bracket and welded it in where I wanted it.

 

[East Coast]

That does look like it would work.
Now to figure out how to get it on the scooter.

Mine is very similar. I cut the pivot out of the bracket and welded it in where I wanted it.

But I need a single circuit master cylinder? I still don't know why I can't bleed and block off the front half

 

[vwbug72501]

Brakes and clutch

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mastercylinderreplace/howworks.html

 

[East Coast]

what about something likt this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unpolished-...ggy-/161295912965?hash=item258dfc5005&vxp=mtr

 

[stinger608]

what about something likt this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unpolished-...ggy-/161295912965?hash=item258dfc5005&vxp=mtr

That would probably work pretty good East Coast. epper:

 

[East Coast]

This one is a bit cheaper but not sure what size it is?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLKSWAGEN-...OIR-/231573008623?hash=item35ead3b0ef&vxp=mtr

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Yep. A std buggy unit. A good choice.
With a built in resivoir it has to be mounted level.

 

[stinger608]

This one is a bit cheaper but not sure what size it is?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLKSWAGEN-...OIR-/231573008623?hash=item35ead3b0ef&vxp=mtr

If you zoom in on the number of that master cylinder, it is merely a standard VW bug early style master cylinder. You can go to your local NAPA parts store and get one pretty much identical for cheaper. You can probably buy the res from them as well. Then you don't have to rely on Ebay sellers shipping the product to ya.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

It don't say what size it is.
But i do know that at least one of those stock type iron ones with the threads for the resivoir is a 22mm.

 

[East Coast]

If you zoom in on the number of that master cylinder, it is merely a standard VW bug early style master cylinder. You can go to your local NAPA parts store and get one pretty much identical for cheaper. You can probably buy the res from them as well. Then you don't have to rely on Ebay sellers shipping the product to ya.

I will go and price one out there thanks, plus I would have to get the ebay seller to ship it to canada

What year would I ask for?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Do not get the 22mm bore unit.
Make sure it is no bigger than 3/4 or 19mm.

 

[East Coast]

Do not get the 22mm bore unit.
Make sure it is no bigger than 3/4 or 19mm.

ok but whats the difference?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

A 34% difference in piston area.
So the peddle will be 34% more difficult/stiffer/harder to push with the 22 than the 19.

 

[East Coast]

A 34% difference in piston area.
So the peddle will be 34% more difficult/stiffer/harder to push with the 22 than the 19.

oh ok, not sure what size I had in the mock up but it was easy to move with my hand

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Ok.
That is not what I am talking about.
The mock up is excellent for helping understand the mechanical connection to the master cylinder.*
But what you are moving there is a near zero load.
Now you have to be able to consume the kinetic energy of 1200 lbs traveling at 70mph and convert it to heat.
You don't want a peddle that takes 800 lbs of force on it to stop you. This is where a mechanical advantage comes in. By multiplying the input with the ratio of levers and piston sizes you can create *a lot of force.
It will take a small diameter master and a large slave to do this. You will need to change the wheel cylinders on the back also.

 

[vwbug72501]

Brakes and clutch

Right on point Death. Here's a link that demonstrates the master/slave relationship. http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/engines-equipment/hydraulic1.htm One thing to notice is that the bigger cylinder has less stroke displacement than the smaller cylinder. So if your master cylinder is too small in relation to your slave you might not have enough stroke to apply the needed pressure to the brake shoes. Also consider the mechanical ratio of the pedal from foot pad to pivot and pivot to master cylinder tab. If you don't get this correct you might end up having to move your foot 18" to get enough stroke on the master cylinder to develop enough hydraulic pressure to push the shoes out and stop you. Could get exciting!

Remember when you were sitting in high school math class wondering "When am I ever going to use this stuff?" Well, here it is.

Another approach is to look at the pictures posted from other builds. If you can find something in the picture that you know the dimensions of, you can usually "guestimate" the dimensions that they are using.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Exactly vwbug.
Thanks for posting the link!
That is why I do not recommend using a motorcycle master cylinder. Just not enough displacement, even more so for drum brakes. The automotive /dune buggy stuff usually have more stroke length.
Still I would stay 17mm (11/16) to 19mm (3/4) master size and the 22.8mm super beetle front slaves nice condition drums and quality shoes. Or even better yet, get disc brakes.

 

[East Coast]

ok thanks guys

what year should I ask for? would it be for a bug or a bus?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

We may need some help from the guys who know some more history.*
But from what I remember. ..
The dual cylinder came in 66 or 67.
So i am gonna say 52 to 65 beetle if you are looking for cheap.
I like that aluminum buggy one you found before.

 

[East Coast]

We may need some help from the guys who know some more history.*
But from what I remember. ..
The dual cylinder came in 66 or 67.
So i am gonna say 52 to 65 beetle if you are looking for cheap.
I like that aluminum buggy one you found before.

yeah it was nicer looking and looked more for a bike, but it cost more and I would have to get it shipped into Canada

your talking about this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unpolished-...ggy-/161295912965?hash=item258dfc5005&vxp=mtr

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Yep that one.
Also solves the problem of mounting the resivoir and/or rubber grommet/ tube of a stock type master.*
I don't have the room for it on mine.
So take in account where you are gonna mount it.