Dreaded CSC Driveshaft Failure

[rhino65]

Wondering which way to go. Either with the Mountain Trikes driveshaft or the complete CSC changeover kit.
Being my driveshaft has been welded if i go the Mountain Trikes shaft does it come complete or is it designed to be used with part of the Goldwings driveshaft?

It's $500 and you get complete new driveshaft. Something I will mention on the Mountain Trike shaft you will have to take a sawzall or some kind of cutting tool to cutoff a round nub from old CSC shaft at the front of gearbox. Sounds intimidating but was easy to do if you can get trike up high enough to get under it. I made 10" blocks for all 3 wheels then jacked up rear first then front to place blocks under.

Will told me order update from CSC parts are $500. Then they charge labor for 8 hrs. but takes better part of 2 days and of course you would have to take trike to them. Roughly 1200-1400 for complete update with labor. Any other questions just ask or call. 217-840-2844 or 217-578-2844 is home phone. Be glad to share what I've learned since November

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Going to go with the CSC update kit and change out the driveshaft and get rid of the gearbox. A CSC dealer in Rapid City, SD is going to do it for us sometime in April of this year. So if anyone is wanting or needing a gearbox let me know as i will have one for sale.

 

[rhino65]

Going to go with the CSC update kit and change out the driveshaft and get rid of the gearbox. A CSC dealer in Rapid City, SD is going to do it for us sometime in April of this year. So if anyone is wanting or needing a gearbox let me know as i will have one for sale.

Would like to hear how you like upgrade when done. Sent you a pm as well

Brian

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Would like to hear how you like upgrade when done. Sent you a pm as well

Brian

Roger that Brian. We are going to take it down to Rapid City for the change over in 2-3 weeks.

 

[rhino65]

Roger that Brian. We are going to take it down to Rapid City for the change over in 2-3 weeks.

Thanks for update. I'm sure it will be much improved

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Going to be picking up our trike later this week :clapping: as installer has had it done for some time but we weren't able to get it. Will let y'all know how it goes.

Had him also switch our blinkers and tail lights to LED. He said Honda makes a special flasher for this if i understood him right. Also had him wire the top luggage lights so they work as blinkers as well as tail lights too. Had many complaints on bright days from people following us that the blinkers lights were very hard to see in bright daylight. See how that goes and hope it is much better !

 

[Bronson512]

Wishing you Good Times ahead!

As was was said earlier, keep us posted.

 

[rhino65]

Also curious to see if mpg improves. Can't wait to hear your feedback on upgrade.

 

[rhino65]

Well the rear seal on my gearbox has been leaking since I bought trike used last November. Thought I could hold out till this winter to replace but am now adding couple oz. of gear oil every 600 miles. Gradually or rapidly getting worse. Take it to Neihaus Cycles in Litchfield, IL. July 7 for the CSC update driveshaft and removal of the gearbox. Original CSC Kit was installed in 2009. I've called CSC several times with questions always talking with Will about the update, servicing the rear end, ect. He is thorough, very nice to talk with & bery willing to help in any way.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

I'm glad to hear some are upgrading their shafts. Their new shaft design is solid with no splined sleeve in the middle. I believe both u-joints are replaceable, and the front one is larger then what they've used in the past. Unfortunately, because the shaft has no splined sleeve, that means it is no compressible and able to be easily remove for an inspection or service. However, a shaft without a splined sleeve should last longer and be more trouble free. I'd bet a new shaft will provide a smoother ride too.

 

[rhino65]

The splined shaft had slop and bone dry when I got it. Which is why I put the 3rd shaft in being one from Mountain Trike. It's got no splines and grease zerk at rear. Only have about 3200 miles on it. Hopefully someone will need it or add it to my other parts I replaced or upgraded. Lol

 

[Bronson512]

I'm glad to hear some are upgrading their shafts. Their new shaft design is solid with no splined sleeve in the middle. I believe both u-joints are replaceable, and the front one is larger then what they've used in the past. Unfortunately, because the shaft has no splined sleeve, that means it is no compressible and able to be easily remove for an inspection or service. However, a shaft without a splined sleeve should last longer and be more trouble free. I'd bet a new shaft will provide a smoother ride too.

can you explain that highlighted portion please. I'm missing something somewhere. Thanks

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

can you explain that highlighted portion please. I'm missing something somewhere. Thanks

Yes ... on most, if not all with independent suspension, the distance between the engine and the final drive unit stays in a fixed position ... it does not move up/down like a solid axel. That means that a solid shaft, or fixed-distance-shaft, can be installed with u-joints on both ends. It's my understanding, that because it's a fixed shaft, to install it, either the engine needs to be pulled forward, or the final drive unit shifted backwards, or downwards, in order to get the shaft in or out.

Road Smith uses a similar shaft but theirs has a sealed splined sleeve in its middle. This allows the shaft to be compressed just enough to pull the rear part of the drive shaft free and clear, so that shaft can be slid out for an inspection and service.

 

[07BlueCSC]

CSC Drive shaft

With the new style CSC drive shaft, the plate that holds the differential is slotted.

That way the driveshaft can be removed.

The four bolts are loosened and the differential is pulled back so the driveshaft

can be removed.

On the early new style kits, the differential needed to be pulled back to change the

differential oil.

 

[Bronson512]

Yes ... on most, if not all with independent suspension, the distance between the engine and the final drive unit stays in a fixed position ... it does not move up/down like a solid axel. That means that a solid shaft, or fixed-distance-shaft, can be installed with u-joints on both ends. It's my understanding, that because it's a fixed shaft, to install it, either the engine needs to be pulled forward, or the final drive unit shifted backwards, or downwards, in order to get the shaft in or out.

Road Smith uses a similar shaft but theirs has a sealed splined sleeve in its middle. This allows the shaft to be compressed just enough to pull the rear part of the drive shaft free and clear, so that shaft can be slid out for an inspection and service.

Im having a difficult time grasping the fixed shaft coupled to a differential with suspension. Wouldn't each time you hit something to cause your suspension to collapse to actively cushion the blow cause a lengthening or shorting in the distance between engine end and differential end?

Greg, could the problem be sub standard parts as splined expanding drive shafts are used in almost every other application out there including severe service equipment to high mileage over the road trucks that are loaded with 80,000 lb one day and nothing the next. Point here being drive line angles......

Ive got to do so more reading.

Thanks for being patient.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Im having a difficult time grasping the fixed shaft coupled to a differential with suspension. Wouldn't each time you hit something to cause your suspension to collapse to actively cushion the blow cause a lengthening or shorting in the distance between engine end and differential end?

Greg, could the problem be sub standard parts as splined expanding drive shafts are used in almost every other application out there including severe service equipment to high mileage over the road trucks that are loaded with 80,000 lb one day and nothing the next. Point here being drive line angles......

Ive got to do so more reading.

Thanks for being patient.

Most of the final drives are fixed to a subframe that's attached the bikes frame and the distance between the engine and final drive always remains the same. Coming out of the final drive on each side are 2 CV shafts. The CV side shafts are what swing up and down supported by the rear suspension. The CV shaft assemblies are what allow for extension and contraction as the tires move up/down.

As for sub standard parts. It's more of poor design. There is nothing wrong with having a splined sleeve allowing for expansion and contraction of a shaft ... but it needs to be sealed and not like the video. You will see that the male end is dry and open to the elements.

 

[Bronson512]

I guess I'm still trying to figure out why a device (drive shaft) that's used in nearly every instance where the power source is mounted apart from a transmission or differential is such a source of problems in a trike.

Greg, Thanks for your informative replies to my questions. I'm going to do more reading and talking to my mechanic brother. We're headed to Lima Flat Track tomorrow so we'll have plenty of time to talk. Those Indians are really putting it on the H-D's. Kind of sad!

To all the other boards members who just wish I would go away and leave it alone, Thanks for bearing with me while I try to grasp this.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

I guess I'm still trying to figure out why a device (drive shaft) that's used in nearly every instance where the power source is mounted apart from a transmission or differential is such a source of problems in a trike.

It boils down to cost $$$$$, and it being a competitive market. I'm sure a shaft like RoadSmith uses is several hundred dollars.

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Finally got out to ride our Goldwing 2010 CSC Trike after having the driveshaft changeover kit done by A&L Trikes in Rapid City, SD. He did that and changed our lights over to LED's, tightened up the bearing on our front forks, and did an over all service of everything. It now has about 9,000 total miles on it.

What a difference it has made getting everything done to it. No more thumping or vibrations and it handles like a dream after tightening up the front fork bearings too. Goes into a curve like it should and like i said it is a totally different trike! Can't say enough about AL as he is very neat and meticulous as you can tell by the inside of his shop! We put 120 miles on it the 4th of July and really enjoyed riding it.

Can't say anything about the gas mileage yet as we drive really conservatively and mileage seems to be pretty good. We are going to be at the Trike Rally next week in Deadwood, SD. I think it starts on July 10th if i remember right. Google Deadwood Trike Rally to get info on it. Will try to check the mileage out and post it back on here in a couple weeks.

If someone needs the gearbox we took off get in touch with Al. I left it with him as i won't be using it ever again!

 

[rhino65]

Good to hear about all the improvements on your trike. My 02 is at Neihaus in Litchfield IL. They got the update or retro kit as they call it installed. They also installed bushings on rear that were not there originally and should have been. The side panels now fit perfect and fenders were lose as well but I never noticed any movement in them.They found my steering head bearings were bad also, Having them replaced as well.

Feel very confident in it will finally perform and be as it should when I pick it up. Neihaus has installed over 1200 trike kits with they're tech Roger having done most all of them. He has in 30+ years with them

 

[OldFart]

I am at CSC yesterday & today having mine upgraded. My trike had developed a loud roaring noise that started about 2,000 miles ago and continued to get louder and louder. When Will got it disassembled one of the barings had gone bad, the gear box was full of metal shavings. Glad I came when I did, it was near leaving me stranded.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

They also installed bushings on rear that were not there originally and should have been.

I once was hired to managed an automotive repair shop that had the worst workmanship, or craftsmanship, I'd ever seen. At the time I told my friends that "in my worst nightmare," it could not be as bad as I saw. It was a large chain, and after asking around, I realized that what I was witnessing, at least for this chain, was common. After 6 weeks, because of it, I left.

In the GL1800 world, I see a lot of the same.

 

[rhino65]

I am at CSC yesterday & today having mine upgraded. My trike had developed a loud roaring noise that started about 2,000 miles ago and continued to get louder and louder. When Will got it disassembled one of the barings had gone bad, the gear box was full of metal shavings. Glad I came when I did, it was near leaving me stranded.

About how many miles was on your old gearbox version? I had 40k on mine when front seal began leaking. When I started adding gear oil every 600 miles or so it was time for Retro kit

 

[OldFart]

About how many miles was on your old gearbox version? I had 40k on mine when front seal began leaking. When I started adding gear oil every 600 miles or so it was time for Retro kit

29,800 mi. Everyone as CSC was super nice to me while I was there, kept me updated as to what they were doing and eta to completion. I am a customer of there's for life.

 

[bikerbillone]

Yikes, in my humble opinion a gear box should not fail at that low mileage, thought CSC had that problem resolved? Hey Greg, welcome back to the real world from the BRP riding experience. Some folks missing you over on the 'other forum', some good words for you and your work.

 

[Papa Zook]

Yikes, in my humble opinion a gear box should not fail at that low mileage, thought CSC had that problem resolved? Hey Greg, welcome back to the real world from the BRP riding experience. Some folks missing you over on the 'other forum', some good words for you and your work.

Invite them over here Bill. A few drama queens ruined that site, tried to ruin this one. I didn't wait as long as they did to clean house.

 

[Papa Zook]

29,800 mi. Everyone as CSC was super nice to me while I was there, kept me updated as to what they were doing and eta to completion. I am a customer of there's for life.

Dwight and the whole CSC staff are a class act company. I've seen them go above and beyond what they were obligated to do to take care of their customers. Dwight was an employee for many, many years and is now a partner and is serious about taking care of his customers. I have frequent conversations with him and can tell you he is on top of his game.

 

[bikerbillone]

Invite them over here Bill. A few drama queens ruined that site, tried to ruin this one. I didn't wait as long as they did to clean house.

Right on Zook and copy that. Not my fav place, but I go there because there are nuggets of good information occasionally. See ya in Maggie.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Right on Zook and copy that. Not my fav place, but I go there because there are nuggets of good information occasionally. See ya in Maggie.

You are correct, there are "nuggets" of info there. Unfortunately for the DIY's, most can't tell the difference between a good nugget and a bad one. I've always advised all to ask a poster if he has personally done what he is recommending other do. Unfortunately in doing such, it can expose an angry arm-chair-quarterback, and his attacks can start. Sometimes, the "advise giver" will have many screen names, and his other screen names will jump in and support his cause.

Long ago I discovered there were only 2 individuals who I could count on for advise. Max from Traxxion, and Rob (Techdude). Both are professionals in their own fields. Behind the scenes we are always exchanging info regarding GL1800s.

Thanks to Papa Zook this site is well monitored.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Yikes, in my humble opinion a gear box should not fail at that low mileage, thought CSC had that problem resolved? Hey Greg, welcome back to the real world from the BRP riding experience. Some folks missing you over on the 'other forum', some good words for you and your work.

Thank you

Yes ... such failure should not happen so quick. They had a great idea, however it didn't work out well. What they were attempting to do was to make the drive shaft more inline with the output shaft of the engine. To do that they added a "transfer case" like one would see hanging off the side of a 4-speed transmission on a 4x4 PU in the 70's. The one used by CSC is much smaller and inside it are planetary gears instead of a chain belt like a transfer case has. Instead of "transferring" power to a forward differential like a 4x4 needs, CSC is effectively adding additional gears to space the drive shaft more rightward.