Zero Trike Build

[Downtown Cowtown]

Whats price on rear suspension set up ???

 

[Free Bird]

Hey y'all.... long time no update....

I put 125 Miles on the Freewheeler Chopper yesterday... really nice day for it. Here it is for those who haven't seen it...



I ended the ride at Doc's to update them on my Zero Trike progress.... The doner bike reminds me of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail



It keeps getting pieces taken off of it....And I am not finished yet.

The engine cases are still out at polish, but some fab parts are coming back now. Here is my new rear axle...



Here is my header exhaust...





2 into 1 into 3.... TAKE THAT HOOKER!!! (reference to the FourBidden Exhaust of the middle 90's)



I think they will hear me coming....



Hey Kevin.... Does DK have a 3" torque cone? orag:

Nice again today... so I am off to ride for a while. Next update should include a rolling chassis for gas ax-ing and chopping and maybe an engine to cradle in it.

 

[Free Bird]

Ok.... next chapter..... We are starting to move from disassembly to assembly. The case polishing is finished and they are coming back Monday. Here they are:







I LIKES SHINY STUFF!!!!

Time to start buildin' a STROKER!!! I am getting stoked!

 

[Gorilla]

Nice job there. Will definitely be shiny

 

[Free Bird]

I saw Kevin's video on this topic and wanted to get the tribe's opinion on this.... (especially you Kevin). I get the Thunder Torque science. Makes sense. But, where (physically) is its effect optimized? I only need one. So Where is the best place to put it? (For those who just said to themselves " I know where he can put it".... please refrain from comment and go enjoy another beer orag PS.... the collector end is made from 3" pipe

 

[Jack Klarich]

Where you have the arrow in the picture is where I would start and run a base line run

 

[Free Bird]

Well Boys and Girls I'm Back.....

Howdy all!!!

Long time no post...

Well,things slowed WAAAAAAY down on the project with all of the COVID "stuff"

Let me first say to anyone and everyone affected by the virus, I hope it went as well as it could and offer my condolences for any lost loved ones

Here is an update on progress of my "Zero" trike

First Some Pictures...















She is on three wheels!!! That is a Kool Trikes indy suspension rear end with Wildwood Brakes and Ford rotors. The wheels are from TruSpoke with Excelcior tires. There is a matching 16" for the front as well, just not mounted yet.

You may have noticed some minor modification of the original 2000 TwinCam mill....

She is out to 107" and has very little left of the engine except the cases. I will run a seperate post on the engine build as it is a long story. The dual carbs are dialed in for a start up (idle) and initial setting for dyno dial in. But that will not come for several more months as I have to get the chassis finished and stuctural suport for the carbs, exhaust, controls. etc. integrated into the frame... there is still a LONG way to go before the first run

BTW, the exhaust I dreamt up was PERFECTLY executed by SIK pipes.... it tucked right in. Can't wait to hear 'em (Eat your hearts out LAF orag

The trike is headed up to the frame and fab shop this week for the long awaited choppin. She will get hacked and goose-necked and raked out to get the rake and trail of a trike plus all the mods for the streched fat bobs, panhead buddy seat, floorboards, fenders, boat tail fairing and trunk etc.

It's getting exciting now!!!

More to follow

Stay warm

Be safe

and Be Well

 

[Jack Klarich]

Very cool, 1 of a kind:clapping:

 

[Zammy]

What an awesome looking machine Jeff.

 

[David357]

Nicely done Jeff.:goodjob:

 

[Free Bird]

I did an update of the bad photoshop concept for the trike with my motor "in situ".... Got a little delayed last week on moving it, so hopefully this week I will get it up to the frame builder shop (this is gettin kinda like waiting for paint on the Freewheeler Chopper build :laugh This kinda shows the line of the finished trike

(yes it will have a disc brake in front)

 

[BKtrike]

I forgot the Repop 41 BMW headlight nacelle with HD compatible gauges.... The Freewheeler has spoiled me on things like speedo's and knowing if I need gas.... Custom gauge faces and instruments from Speed Hut

View attachment 79353

Keep us updated with photos!

 

[BKtrike]

Howdy all!!!

Long time no post...

Well,things slowed WAAAAAAY down on the project with all of the COVID "stuff"

Let me first say to anyone and everyone affected by the virus, I hope it went as well as it could and offer my condolences for any lost loved ones

Here is an update on progress of my "Zero" trike

First Some Pictures...

View attachment 95282

View attachment 95283

View attachment 95284

View attachment 95285

View attachment 95286

View attachment 95287

View attachment 95288

She is on three wheels!!! That is a Kool Trikes indy suspension rear end with Wildwood Brakes and Ford rotors. The wheels are from TruSpoke with Excelcior tires. There is a matching 16" for the front as well, just not mounted yet.

You may have noticed some minor modification of the original 2000 TwinCam mill....

She is out to 107" and has very little left of the engine except the cases. I will run a seperate post on the engine build as it is a long story. The dual carbs are dialed in for a start up (idle) and initial setting for dyno dial in. But that will not come for several more months as I have to get the chassis finished and stuctural suport for the carbs, exhaust, controls. etc. integrated into the frame... there is still a LONG way to go before the first run

BTW, the exhaust I dreamt up was PERFECTLY executed by SIK pipes.... it tucked right in. Can't wait to hear 'em (Eat your hearts out LAF orag

The trike is headed up to the frame and fab shop this week for the long awaited choppin. She will get hacked and goose-necked and raked out to get the rake and trail of a trike plus all the mods for the streched fat bobs, panhead buddy seat, floorboards, fenders, boat tail fairing and trunk etc.

It's getting exciting now!!!

More to follow

Stay warm

Be safe

and Be Well

That is BAD ASS!

 

[Jack Klarich]

Very cool Jeff:clapping: Are you using rocker lockers on the rocker arms? Kevin sells them https://www.dkcustomproducts.com/rocker-lockers-for-harley-davidson-twin-cam-motors-dk-rl-tc.htm

 

[Free Bird]

Thanks Jack,

No, I did not employ the rocker lockers, instead I installed an S&S forged roller rocker kit in the upper end. It has 50% more bushing support area than stock... should help the OEM design weakness.... Here is the tank decal I had made .... It kinda sums up the motor....

 

[Free Bird]

Jack, let's talk rake and trail one more time before the gas ax and frame jig come out....

I have reviewed a number of posts on the site and there is a LOT of debate regarding this topic on the internet in general. I wondered what your two cents was on final/net RAKE and TRAIL.

I have read a few different sources that say 44-45 degree rake is optimal for a trike but trail numbers run all over the place from 1-3 inches.

The fun part about springers is you can do all sorts of things with rocker arm geometry and get the look you are going for at the same time (remember Sugar Bear). Anyway, l would appreciate your thoughts on the topic.

This guy really laid his down.... No idea how it handles, but looks cool as heck!



Anybody else is also welcome to chime in...

 

[Jack Klarich]

This will depend on looks vs function IMO One advantage may be raked triple trees to help with too much off set

Longer rake looks cool but many times you give up slow speed maneuvering and a smaller contact patch( trail) JMO

I believe your stock rake is near 26 degrees, I would look for 35 degrees of rake and 3 of trail for easy steering and stability

 

[stacebg]

The trike is headed up to the frame and fab shop this week for the long awaited choppin. She will get hacked and goose-necked and raked out to get the rake and trail of a trike plus all the mods for the streched fat bobs, panhead buddy seat, floorboards, fenders, boat tail fairing and trunk etc.

be aware if you rake it out you are increasing the trail which will make it harder to steer

 

[Free Bird]

Thanks Jack and stacebg. Much appreciated

I am planning on employing some rocker tricks from the old days.....

You can have the look AND the handling if you design rockers to get you to the optimal R&T



This sketch above shows how 'Scimitar' rockers essentially work. In the old days it was done mostly by experimentation. But Ed Roth published a tech article on rake and trail in early 1969 that defined the math. This is one reason that Ed Roth is held in such high esteem. He always openly and unselfishly shared whatever information he came across. The diagram below is a CAD copy of a chart that relays what I am trying to accomplish. This particular chart was set up to determine the rocker geometry for forks where you want to maintain 3-inches of trail regardless of what the neck rake angle happened to be. On the full-scale chart it was easy to interpolate down to 1-degree of accuracy.



Those semi-circular arcs you see drawn between the axle and the rear pivot pin hole having nothing to do with the rocker shape but are there just to make it easier to understand what axle locations go with what pivot location.

In the end, these dropped rockers give the rider the impression (perceived feel) that the bike has less trail than it actually has in reality. Sugar Bear's LONG springers used this principle very successfully. Some people say that riding a a Sugar Bear bike with dropped rockers is like having 'power steering' in that it takes very little effort to move the front wheel. Basically what is happening with a set of dropped rockers is that you are 'tricking' the steering geometry into thinking that the bike is running a much smaller diameter front wheel that is set much further forward than the physical reality of the hardware.

Anyway, that is the idea. If I can get to a target rake/trail, it can be engineered into the geometry of the frame neck and rocker combo.

You can read much more about this concept at the Chopper Builders Handbook web site (an awesome source for ideas if you are into choppers) Here is the link:

https://chopperbuildershandbook.com/rockers.html

PS.... New Harley springers are deraked as received from the MoCo. Vulcan Engineering sells a kit to get you back to the inline geometry of the early springers. They have a 4.5 degree and 7.5 degree kit.

Here is that link (If you want a trike-friendly rake kit for your stock new generation OEM springer)

https://secure.vulcanworks.net/store/Harley-Springer-Softail-Rake-Kit.html

 

[Free Bird]

What else ya gonna do an a freezing snowy night with more salt on the road than a paint job or chome goodies can stand......

You photoshop more details into your project concept pic....



Shows the sheet metal fabricator more of what I am chasing

Fenders are adapted forms of the 1937 designs used on 45 Flatheads like the W, WL, and of course: the G Model Servicar.



1934 was the first year for the Servicar so I thought this would be a great adaptation and homage’ to the first MoCo trike for my early trike themed hot rod

 

[Free Bird]

Oooops.... forgot to make it a trike....

 

[stacebg]

a couple things come to mind.... the line in these sketches are the center of the headset or triple tree pin and NOT the fork itself

i have found when the axle is about and inch or so above the pivot they ride pretty good

in the case of the dropped rocker, dont let the curly cue rocker fool you...

the lower the pivot the less the suspension can work... example if the axle right above the pivot the only time it will work is if you run into wall or deep pot hole... because there is almost no vertical travel.

if you go the other way with the axle below the pivot ... this can be just as bad.... for example if the axle and pivot are in line with triple tree pin you might as well put in a solid bar... think about pushing a wheel barrow over a curb... its easier pull than push it and the higher your hands are the harder it is to push over the curb and easier to pull

 

[Free Bird]

a couple things come to mind.... the line in these sketches are the center of the headset or triple tree pin and NOT the fork itself

i have found when the axle is about and inch or so above the pivot they ride pretty good

in the case of the dropped rocker, dont let the curly cue rocker fool you...

the lower the pivot the less the suspension can work... example if the axle right above the pivot the only time it will work is if you run into wall or deep pot hole... because there is almost no vertical travel.

if you go the other way with the axle below the pivot ... this can be just as bad.... for example if the axle and pivot are in line with triple tree pin you might as well put in a solid bar... think about pushing a wheel barrow over a curb... its easier pull than push it and the higher your hands are the harder it is to push over the curb and easier to pull

All great points... nothing better than getting the rake and trail right the first time... That is always the goal. The rocker trick allows "tweaking" if you need to dial it in. But it will still be sub-optimized. Choppers are NOT great handling sport bikes. They sacrifice optimal handling for the "cool factor" If you try to make a chopper that handles like a BMW K or R series.... you will likely be disappointed.

 

[Free Bird]

Well I finally got the trike to the chop shop yesterday for the frame mods and chassis work. I took the trike and a pick-up full of parts to Just Hawgs in St. Louis. Great "Old School" shop.

We will cut out the backbone and replace it with round tube for locating the stretched fatbob flatside tanks. We will replace the swingarrm castings with tubes that will accomodate rear motor mounts and then weld in a hardtail that will pick up the rear axle attach points (No shocks needed on the frame as the independent suspension is part of the rear axle). Then we will cut the downtubes at the front motor mounts stretch the new downtubes and fab the goose neck. The VIN will be cut out of the original neck casting and welded into the new neck to keep the DMV happy and serene....

I have not decided whether I am going to go with a round pill oil tank (like the paint concept photo below) or make a built in tank (whiskey flask style). I really like the look of the open area above the tranny. Looks very clean. So I am leaning in that direction.

Here is the idea...



Now you know why I am painting the logo on the tank as:



Got the boat tail body for the "trunk" figured out. I am going to narrow and stretch a Harley/Goulding L29 Sidecar body and build it into a light frame that bolts onto the main frame and covers the axle and belt. I will hinge the top for access and use leather straps (like the old hood straps on a hot rod) to assist the latch in keeping it closed. It won't hold much more than a helmet and a sack lunch... but it will look good and keep that suspension out in the open so we can see the rear end mechanics.



I figured the paint job out the other night and photoshopped it. Essentially it is a variation on the stock black/red two-tone paint used on 1933 Flatheads



So we are heading into Phase II of the build!!!

 

[dlpuette]

OMG! This thread can’t be done! I’m totally sucked in !!

 

[JeffH717]

OMG! This thread can’t be done! I’m totally sucked in !!

Same here. Where's phase 2? I want to see this monster.

 

[stratmarshall]

Wild build. Love seeing the progress. Can't wait to see the finished trike.

 

[TwistedKarma]

OMG! This thread can’t be done! I’m totally sucked in !!

It just means he's busting his arse, building. Not posting... be patient

 

[Free Bird]

Hello all..... Yes and thank you Mr. Twisted... I have been very busy

SO, it has been a very long time since my last posting. I am in line with the frame builder and he has not yet started.... but many other things have. Here is a view of the sheet metal

Front Fender









Rear Fenders (Almost Finished) - Using Reproduction 37 VL tail lights



Sorry for the sideways view....







....Next post. The very modified gas tank....

 

[Jack Klarich]

Very cool work on the fenders, I dig the bottom piece and tail lights