Stage 2 woes

[Trikesyke]

A fellow triker was saying he had a Stage 2 put in but said he has no power and going up hill the trike bogs down. Also he has lost gas mileage. I did not get to ask him to explain. My thought is maybe he got the high end cam stage 2 instead of the mid range stage 2 and he doesn't know to keep the rpm's up. Any other thoughts? I am considering a stage 2 mid range myself. I believe he has a 2013.

 

[Papa Zook]

A fellow triker was saying he had a Stage 2 put in but said he has no power and going up hill the trike bogs down. Also he has lost gas mileage. I did not get to ask him to explain. My thought is maybe he got the high end cam stage 2 instead of the mid range stage 2 and he doesn't know to keep the rpm's up. Any other thoughts? I am considering a stage 2 mid range myself. I believe he has a 2013.

Its hard to say what his problem is without knowing what cam he installed and what tuner & tune he did after the cam install.

 

[rhino 2]

A fellow triker was saying he had a Stage 2 put in but said he has no power and going up hill the trike bogs down. Also he has lost gas mileage. I did not get to ask him to explain. My thought is maybe he got the high end cam stage 2 instead of the mid range stage 2 and he doesn't know to keep the rpm's up. Any other thoughts? I am considering a stage 2 mid range myself. I believe he has a 2013.

It might help if you ask the fellow triker to join Trike-Talk and then let everyone know exactly what was done to his trike.....Otherwise you'll have 20 speculative answers and you still won't know more than you know now....:Shrug:

 

[Jack Klarich]

Agree, we need more info

Hard to say what cam would do this let alone how much fuel is running in the engine

What the compression ratio is ETC

 

[HDMAN]

Stage II cams "goodbye warranty"

Allow me to throw another hat in this ring. I have a 2017 M8 Freewheeler with a Pro Street Tuner, Screamin Eagle Smart Pro Tuner, Extreme Flow air filter, and Street Cannon mufflers with cats, all Harley approved accessories.I went to my dealer a month ago and asked them to install the stage II cam that is approved by Harley, but I asked them to call the factory to see if they would cover the setup. The dealer was told that they (HD) would void the warranty because it states in the accessory book the stage II cam does not fit trike models. We were shocked to say the least.

I called the factory a few days later to confirm this and was told that they will void the warranty if you install a cam because they have not tested the setup in the trike models, I asked why when it is the same powertrain as the rest of the vehicles. The answer was they just haven't, so I asked the tech why, he said if you look in the accessory book it states the cams don't fit the trike models, Bottom line is your local dealer will probably cover you but if you have a problem on the road they could advise the factory and your warranty is gone!

By the way the factory also flagged my warranty because I have a Dakota Digital speedometer.

It is nice to buy a product that the manufacturer is so confident in that they are constantly looking for ways to void your warranty.

 

[Trikesyke]

Its hard to say what his problem is without knowing what cam he installed and what tuner & tune he did after the cam install.

Papa Z,

You and others have valid points. I need to get more details before we can continue this discussion.

 

[Trikesyke]

Allow me to throw another hat in this ring. I have a 2017 M8 Freewheeler with a Pro Street Tuner, Screamin Eagle Smart Pro Tuner, Extreme Flow air filter, and Street Cannon mufflers with cats, all Harley approved accessories.I went to my dealer a month ago and asked them to install the stage II cam that is approved by Harley, but I asked them to call the factory to see if they would cover the setup. The dealer was told that they (HD) would void the warranty because it states in the accessory book the stage II cam does not fit trike models. We were shocked to say the least.

I called the factory in a few days later to confirm this and was told that they will void the warranty if you install a cam because they have not tested the setup in the trike models, I asked why when it is the same powertrain as the rest of the vehicles. The answer was they just haven't, so I asked the tech why, he said if you look in the accessory book it states the cams don't fit the trike models, Bottom line is your local dealer will probably cover you but if you have a problem on the road they could advise the factory and your warranty is gone!

By the way the factory also flagged my warranty because I have a Dakota Digital speedometer.

It is nice to buy a product that the manufacturer is so confident in that they are constantly looking for ways to void your warranty.

HD,

I am confused. The 2017 Harley 'book of gifts' parts catalog does list a cam set up for the trike. Is the accessory book different?

 

[rhino 2]

Allow me to throw another hat in this ring. I have a 2017 M8 Freewheeler with a Pro Street Tuner, Screamin Eagle Smart Pro Tuner, Extreme Flow air filter, and Street Cannon mufflers with cats, all Harley approved accessories.I went to my dealer a month ago and asked them to install the stage II cam that is approved by Harley, but I asked them to call the factory to see if they would cover the setup. The dealer was told that they (HD) would void the warranty because it states in the accessory book the stage II cam does not fit trike models. We were shocked to say the least.

I called the factory a few days later to confirm this and was told that they will void the warranty if you install a cam because they have not tested the setup in the trike models, I asked why when it is the same powertrain as the rest of the vehicles. The answer was they just haven't, so I asked the tech why, he said if you look in the accessory book it states the cams don't fit the trike models, Bottom line is your local dealer will probably cover you but if you have a problem on the road they could advise the factory and your warranty is gone!

By the way the factory also flagged my warranty because I have a Dakota Digital speedometer.

The reason they' Harely haven't tested it in the relativity low volume trike is because it would have to be certified by the EPA.... A time consuming and costly testing processes....They would have to test it on a few trikes before the EPA would certify it...

You can't just tell the EPA, Well it works on the two wheelers, So why shouldn't work on the trike...The EPA doesn't work that way...

 

[HDMAN]

On page 587 of the 2018 Parts Accessories catalog part 92500047 states

does not fit trike models.

I think that the trike model production numbers exceeds some of the softail models, so I'm not sure that argument holds up regarding EPA testing.

I should have treated this one like I have several in the past. I should have gone with the TTS tuner, Fullsac Performance exhaust and forgot about the warranty.

I know, I'm just venting because I can't have it my way.

​

 

[Trikesyke]

On page 587 of the 2018 Parts Accessories catalog part 92500047 states

does not fit trike models.

I think that the trike model production numbers exceeds some of the softail models, so I'm not sure that argument holds up regarding EPA testing.

I should have treated this one like I have several in the past. I should have gone with the TTS tuner, Fullsac Performance exhaust and forgot about the warranty.

I know, I'm just venting because I can't have it my way.

​

HD,

Stage 2 IS available for Pre Milwaukee 8. A little confusion here....

 

[NHBAGGER]

HD,Stage 2 IS available for Pre Milwaukee 8. A little confusion here....

Probably because they do have an approved cal/download tune for it.

I just bought a SE58 TB for my 14 Tri. In the 14 SE Catalog it said it would fit. In the 17 Se Catalog it now is not for a 14 Tri. The EPA spanked HD so now they have to be very careful.

 

[ultrafxr]

On page 587 of the 2018 Parts Accessories catalog part 92500047 states

does not fit trike models.

I think that the trike model production numbers exceeds some of the softail models, so I'm not sure that argument holds up regarding EPA testing.

I should have treated this one like I have several in the past. I should have gone with the TTS tuner, Fullsac Performance exhaust and forgot about the warranty.

I know, I'm just venting because I can't have it my way.

​

I see that notation about the Stage II kits on page 587. But look at page 586 which lists just cams and several are offered for '17-later Touring models and there is no notation regarding not fitting trike models. And the caution icon is a go light which indicate the part is 50-state U.S. EPA compliant.

Appears to me that the kits on p. 587 give you the cam and pushrods whereas on p. 586 you can buy just the cam . . . then get the pushrods spearately I guess. It sure seems to me that if the State II kit is not compliant on a trike then the cam alone would also be non-compliant. What am I missing here?

 

[Jack Klarich]

I see that notation about the Stage II kits on page 587. But look at page 586 which lists just cams and several are offered for '17-later Touring models and there is no notation regarding not fitting trike models. And the caution icon is a go light which indicate the part is 50-state U.S. EPA compliant.

Appears to me that the kits on p. 587 give you the cam and pushrods whereas on p. 586 you can buy just the cam . . . then get the pushrods spearately I guess. It sure seems to me that if the State II kit is not compliant on a trike then the cam alone would also be non-compliant. What am I missing here?

I don't think the MOCO has done much real time testing these upgrades on Trike models

 

[ultrafxr]

I don't think the MOCO has done much real time testing these upgrades on Trike models

Probably less than the millions of pre-production miles they tested the M8 motor, lol. In any case they need to be consistent about whether a swap to an EPA compliant cam voids the trike power train warranty or not. This is a pretty big deal for anyone wanting to do a performance upgrade.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Probably less than the millions of pre-production miles they tested the M8 motor, lol. In any case they need to be consistent about whether a swap to an EPA compliant cam voids the trike power train warranty or not. This is a pretty big deal for anyone wanting to do a performance upgrade.

Agree, plus the M8 with 4 valve heads will be more compliant with the EPA

The cams in them from the factory IMO already have a low profile

This means to me their should be moocho wiggle room for cam selection and still be EPA OK

This new engine breaths good, but needs more help for 2 up Trikes IMO

 

[Trikesyke]

A fellow triker was saying he had a Stage 2 put in but said he has no power and going up hill the trike bogs down. Also he has lost gas mileage. I did not get to ask him to explain. My thought is maybe he got the high end cam stage 2 instead of the mid range stage 2 and he doesn't know to keep the rpm's up. Any other thoughts? I am considering a stage 2 mid range myself. I believe he has a 2013.

Somewhat of an update: in talking to the shop techs, the individual has an SE255 CAM (low to mid range torque) with race tune, on a 2011. This combo would be expcted to produce some noticable response to the throttle. However, this person apparently has a history of riding in higher gears at lower speeds, ie lugging down the engine. Hence, needing ' a handful ' of throttle to get any response. That expains it....

 

[rhino 2]

A fellow triker was saying he had a Stage 2 put in but said he has no power and going up hill the trike bogs down. Also he has lost gas mileage. I did not get to ask him to explain. My thought is maybe he got the high end cam stage 2 instead of the mid range stage 2 and he doesn't know to keep the rpm's up. Any other thoughts? I am considering a stage 2 mid range myself. I believe he has a 2013.

Unless the fellow triker you speak of joins Trike-Talk and explains what he did or didn't do its all going to be speculation from this point on...:Shrug:

 

[Trikesyke]

Unless the fellow triker you speak of joins Trike-Talk and explains what he did or didn't do its all going to be speculation from this point on...:Shrug:

That is true.

 

[427dave]

I put a 254 cam in my 103 in my tike with V&H headers, stock mufflers, TTS tuner, SE AC and it ran quite well until it blew up. Then I put what I call my Stage 20 kit, SE 120 ST engine which came with 259E cam and 58 mm TB. It runs quite well in the trike

 

[vito]

Allow me to throw another hat in this ring. I have a 2017 M8 Freewheeler with a Pro Street Tuner, Screamin Eagle Smart Pro Tuner, Extreme Flow air filter, and Street Cannon mufflers with cats, all Harley approved accessories.I went to my dealer a month ago and asked them to install the stage II cam that is approved by Harley, but I asked them to call the factory to see if they would cover the setup. The dealer was told that they (HD) would void the warranty because it states in the accessory book the stage II cam does not fit trike models. We were shocked to say the least.

I called the factory a few days later to confirm this and was told that they will void the warranty if you install a cam because they have not tested the setup in the trike models, I asked why when it is the same powertrain as the rest of the vehicles. The answer was they just haven't, so I asked the tech why, he said if you look in the accessory book it states the cams don't fit the trike models, Bottom line is your local dealer will probably cover you but if you have a problem on the road they could advise the factory and your warranty is gone!

By the way the factory also flagged my warranty because I have a Dakota Digital speedometer.

It is nice to buy a product that the manufacturer is so confident in that they are constantly looking for ways to void your warranty.

Thank the EPA! H-D got seriously burned not long ago. By "testing" they mean that the same cam in the same motor isn''t EPA approved in a different "platform", ie trike vs bike. EPA testing is expensive and H-D may feel that the Triglide market is too small to amortize it.

Wanna help? Whack a tree hugger and vote Republican.

 

[Ronbo]

I see that notation about the Stage II kits on page 587. But look at page 586 which lists just cams and several are offered for '17-later Touring models and there is no notation regarding not fitting trike models. And the caution icon is a go light which indicate the part is 50-state U.S. EPA compliant.

Appears to me that the kits on p. 587 give you the cam and pushrods whereas on p. 586 you can buy just the cam . . . then get the pushrods spearately I guess. It sure seems to me that if the State II kit is not compliant on a trike then the cam alone would also be non-compliant. What am I missing here?

Reading real close on page 586 it states "Cams fit ’18-later Softail® and ’17-later Touring models". In most other descriptions it will specifically state 'and trikes' when it fits trikes. Its almost like reading a legal document..

I did talk with my dealer at length about this and after a lot of cross checking, etc we agreed that the SE8-447 cam will work fine on my freewheeler even though their own info shows Does not fit Trike models. I've just got to decide if this is really the best low end cam for my freewheeler and what tuner I want to go with.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Reading real close on page 586 it states "Cams fit ’18-later Softail® and ’17-later Touring models". In most other descriptions it will specifically state 'and trikes' when it fits trikes. Its almost like reading a legal document..

I did talk with my dealer at length about this and after a lot of cross checking, etc we agreed that the SE8-447 cam will work fine on my freewheeler even though their own info shows Does not fit Trike models. I've just got to decide if this is really the best low end cam for my freewheeler and what tuner I want to go with.

Think Power Vision Tuner

Check with Kevin @ D K Customs

A lot of Harley Dealers have been known to use these tuners before the EPA clamped down