Stage 2 question

[Urlawyer]

I upgraded my 2013 FLSTC to a Stage 1 and had it Dyno tuned just before I Triked with a Motortrike kit.

Now I want to upgrade to stage 2 with SE 204 cams. However, I can not find a Dyno that can Dyno a trike.

My mechanic recommends against the upgrade without a Dyno tune. He told me that he can put a canned map but he also told me the results with a canned map may yield mixed performance results.

He, also, said that a canned map would return engine to the factory lean state as opposed a Dyno tune that can be tuned to enrich the fuel mixture to cool the engine which is desirable on a trike.

What say you?

Further, can a car Dyno be used to Dyno a trike?



results.

 

[Sloufoot]

I upgraded my 2013 FLSTC to a Stage 1 and had it Dyno tuned just before I Triked with a Motortrike kit.

Now I want to upgrade to stage 2 with SE 204 cams. However, I can not find a Dyno that can Dyno a trike.

My mechanic recommends against the upgrade without a Dyno tune. He told me that he can put a canned map but he also told me the results with a canned map may yield mixed performance results.

He, also, said that a canned map would return engine to the factory lean state as opposed a Dyno tune that can be tuned to enrich the fuel mixture to cool the engine which is desirable on a trike.

What say you?


Further, can a car Dyno be used to Dyno a trike?



results.

You can use the auto dyno for the Trike, but you also need someone that knows how to tune the Harley engine. Most dyno operators have never tuned a motorcycle. Also they need cooling fans for the motorcycle.
If they just use the exhaust gasses, know what it should be & know how to adjust the ECM to do what they want it ends up the same. The HP & TQ is a by-product of tuning.
By the way I don't think you are going to like those cams without doing more than just cams. That bike is now much heavier than before. You would be much happier with the SE254 cams to get more TQ on the bottom end & lasting RPM range for the upper end.

 

[427dave]

Second the SE 254 cams. I did stage 2 with 254 cams. TTS tuner and auto tune with it. There is a list of dyno's that have trike capabilities on here. Not sure exactly where it is, but I think it is a sticky. There may be one near you.

 

[Moneywoes]

The trike dyno thread is a sticky. I believe the closest trike dyno to Houston/DFW in the thread is at fort thunder HD in Moore Ok. Forum member Sparky8754 posted that he was taking his wifes 2013 Triglide there for some motor work and tuning a couple weeks ago. I'm waiting for him to respond with his evaluation of the shops tuning abilities after they get done. Not sure how well the SE204's would do in a haevy trike, Torque may come on a little later than ideal.

 

[geezerglide11441]

urlawyer, if I were in your shoes I would contact Fuel Moto regarding a cam for your 2013 Trike. A good friend just upgraded his trike with a set of power dual head pipes (to get rid of the cat) and installed a set of TW222 cams. This cam design was specifically designed by both Woods and Jamie Long (Owner of Fuel Moto) for the 103" motor in the Trikes. It uses the OEM valve springs and throttle body and the Torque is where you need it to get the heavy trike moving. After installation, the numbers were - 95hp and 112tq. The torque comes on early and the bike runs really well.

Myself, I have 2013 Trike with a 120r crate motor with a few other mods and am really happy with the way it runs. Had I not already the 120r motor, I was going to go with the TW222 cams as well.

Regarding the tuner, I have used (at various times on various bikes) the SEPST, V&H Fuel Pak, Power Commander and currently have the Dynojet Power Vision (PV). Of all the tuners I have tried/used, I like the Power Vision the best. It is the most user friendly and you do not need a computer to tune your bike. I installed the PV with Auto Tune module (wide band O2 sensors and the OEM narrow band sensors) and I have the bike running "scary quick".

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!!

Ride safe!

Roger

 

[Darth]

+1 on FuelMoto... great people to work with.

 

[msocko3]

I would pass on the 204's in a 103 equipped trike, the tune has to be spot on or pinging will be your reward. The 204 is a great cam, I've ridden a couple bikes equipped with them. My dads 06 Ultra was 95" with 204 and ran real strong, from the bottom end up. Some say the 204 doesn't have a good bottom end, I haven't found that to be the case. I also road a friends 06 Electraglide which was still 88" with some head work and the 204 cams, nice running bike and pulled good even at the bottom.

If your looking to stick with a SE cam I'd look hard at the 254, folks have been running them in trikes with good results. With the cam change you will need a tune, canned map isn't the way to fly, and a mechanic who tells you they would have to put a canned map in and it would be lean is a lazy mechanic. You can start with the correct canned map and tune it from there if you choose the right tuner. My preference is the TTS, but folks have been having good results with the Dynojet Power Vision also. I favor the TTS because it will allow a competent tuner to do a much better tune than the Power Vision.

Your looking for someone who has a Dynojet 250ix dyno, the ix is the one for trikes and atv's. There are a couple places in TX that have a the correct dyno one is in Kileen Tx and is http://www.killeenpowersports.com/ another one is http://motosage.com/ located in El Paso.

 

[wobray]

Just put a Zippers Thundermax ECM and a cam of your choice on it and tune it yourself.

 

[Urlawyer]

I had an SE204 cam on my Harley Road King 88' and I found it to be a very good cam on the HRK. At times on the highway, when it was safe to do so, I would let my speed drop to 30-35 miles an hour in 5th gear then roll on the gas and the bike would get going to 80 plus without a problem.

My mechanic advises against going to Stage 2 without a Dyna tune. His advise is that a canned map is not a good idea.

If I can find a Dyno within reasonable distance from Houston, Texas I'll go to Stage 2, in the mean time I an considering a 30 tooth gear.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

I hope your not planning on running your engine down in the low rpms and try to accelerate in 5th on your trike? Doing that would stress the flywheel assembly and possibly cause it to spread, leaving you you with a engine that needs repaired.

 

[Urlawyer]

Do not plan to do so on the trike cause I'm carrying about 200 lbs on the rear end.

It's interesting to note that my first new car I bought was a 1966 VW 1300 rated at 50 hp and now my 2013 FLSTC at Stage 1 is Dyno rated at 76.71 hp and 96.00 pt.

The reason I'd like to upgrade my FLSTC to Stage 2 is that my last Harley Roadking Custom 88 inch with a Mikuni carb and SE 204 cams was Dyno rated at 89.51 hp and 102.57 pk. So I figure that my 103 will put out more hp and pt at Stage 2.

 

[msocko3]

Do not plan to do so on the trike cause I'm carrying about 200 lbs on the rear end.

It's interesting to note that my first new car I bought was a 1966 VW 1300 rated at 50 hp and now my 2013 FLSTC at Stage 1 is Dyno rated at 76.71 hp and 96.00 pt.

The reason I'd like to upgrade my FLSTC to Stage 2 is that my last Harley Roadking Custom 88 inch with a Mikuni carb and SE 204 cams was Dyno rated at 89.51 hp and 102.57 pk. So I figure that my 103 will put out more hp and pt at Stage 2.

If that was a bone stock 88 with 204 cams you had one rare bird, a friend of mine has an injected 88 with ported heads and 204's which came in with hp in the high 80's and torque in the mid 90's. 103's with 204's will come in with hp in the lower 90's and torque will be in the 95 - 105 range. The down side of a 103 with 204's is the tune will have to be spot on or a ping monster it will be.

 

[Urlawyer]

I have a very good mechanic with 17 years of experience who takes the time to get the most from a Dyno tuneup.

I talked with mechanics from other shops who have told me, as opposed to my mechanic, that I do not need a Dyno tune and that a canned map is all I need.

By the way, it was the shop managers, who want to make a sale, that claim that a Dyno tune is not needed with a cam upgrade.

Interesting note, none have a Dyno or if the do they can not Dyno a trike.

 

[tbear]

I went with the S&S cam (557) and LOVE IT! great power thru-out the Gears! Idles smooth,and better gas mileage than stock.I also had it Dynoed w/Techno Research Tuner. S&S made this CAM just for Triglides and other trikes because of weight,103mtrs,etc...
just my 2cents.:Coffee:

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

I have a very good mechanic with 17 years of experience who takes the time to get the most from a Dyno tuneup.

I talked with mechanics from other shops who have told me, as opposed to my mechanic, that I do not need a Dyno tune and that a canned map is all I need.

By the way, it was the shop managers, who want to make a sale, that claim that a Dyno tune is not needed with a cam upgrade.

Interesting note, none have a Dyno or if the do they can not Dyno a trike.

Its your engine and money. But I would run from any shop that tells me a "canned map is all I need" A canned map is a base for the starting point. Picking the correct map to work from for tuning makes it easier for the tuner to dial it in. No two engines run exactly the same.

 

[Urlawyer]

I agree. A canned map is just a start. My mechanic told me that he uses a canned map as a starting point which he than fine tunes on the Dyno for the best HP, T, and fuel mix that will make the engine run cool and smooth. He told me that by taking his time, he usually gets better than average results. He, also, told me that many mechanics do not take the time and just aim for an average result because they do not have the time (shop tells them you have x time to do the tune) or they do not care because the bike owner is just an x.

By the way, I have checked out the SE254E cam and it is so new that the results are yet unknown but the cam shows great promise for trike owners. Harley claim a lot of low end T which we trike owners need.