My Poor Leaning Lehman

[Dwight]

1550,
I've got a little over 2K on my T Glide. It handles really well but haven't pushed it too much. It is much narrower than my CSC and I haven't been up to CSC speed in the corners yet. I suspect it will take a little more body english to equal the CSC speed in the corners. It is quicker responding, the shorter wheelbase and narrower track speeds up the handling. I'm not too happy with ride quality, as compared to the CSC, but it's ok considering it is a straight axle trike. Missus isn't complaining so I guess it's ok. I think you will be happier with more conventional size tires. Your's aren't on spoke rims are they? I finally told my boss that if they sold any more kits with spoke wheels they needed to pay me at least $50 more for the install!! They sure look good, but man, what a PITA to install.
Off to the Hatfield/McCoy trails to ride our ATV for a couple of weeks.

Dwight

 

[1550vt]

Dwight

No spokes for me either. I have ASA 15-inch 5-bar mags. They are basically 91-93 Mustang wheels with the same 4 x 108mm lug pattern. I have been kicking around getting some 16's, but have about decided I can get the tire I want that will fit these 15 x 8 rims. I am considering a 225/55R15, a 225/60R15 or a 215/60R15. I think I am limited to a 225 on these 8-inch rims as nothing smaller will fit, but I can drop over an inch in footprint and an inch in diameter with a 225. I need to gear it down a bit anyway. The 225 will also reduce the sidewall a bit, reduce the flex and let me run a little less air pressure than these 245 ballons.

 

[dwiht]

VT, my Lehman Kit is a Renegade kit, and mine is an 08 and not a TG. Not that it should make any difference. I like my narrow design especially doing group riding, bikes behind can see as much as a norma two wheel bike, I am only 7" wider on each side than my pegs on my front bar. Of course it makes it easier to get it up on two wheels also.

Dwight

 

[1550vt]

Dwight....what size rims and tires are on the back of your Renegade. That's what I have and the 245/60R15's came with the kit.

 

[dwiht]

205/70R15 Dunlop tires (factory Install) on the 08 Renegade with ASA rims. I do not have any other info on the rims. Perhaps Lehman (888-394-3357) could give you more information on the rims.

 

[1550vt]

June 17th. Update.

The trike handled a bit better on this last trip I took, but I am still not satisfied that I have cured all my issues. The replaced stabilzer link helped and took the "droop" of of the RH turns, but it is still a bit too mushy for my comfort. I did drastically increase tire and shock pressure, which helped also. I am down to only one thing left to change, which are the swing arm cleavebolcks. I suppose I will ultimately have to replace these with something like a Stabo bushing kit. This is the only remaining area that I have not specifically addressed. All you folks running 2002 and newer frames don't have this to worry about. HD went to bearings in the swing arm in the 2002 model year FLH family. I have replaced the rear motor supports and installed delrin inserts already. I have two other moves to make first. One is to replace these 245 tires with a 205, which is stock on the TG and newer kits. I am also raking the front end with 2009 TG trees. I want to see how raking may affect overall handling before I tear this thing apart and start digging around in the swing arm-to-transmission connection.

 

[Gorilla]

VT you got to love the way our machines are a work in progress and never done. Ted

 

[1550vt]

My first new Harley was an 86 Softail and I have owned 'em all since then at one time or another. Every one I ever owned (new or used) was simply a platform for experimentation. All my scooters have always been a "work in progress". I have always considered them as something like a small block chevy. You can find parts for a small block or an HD anywhere across this country and there is simply no reason why a man ought not to try and use every one of them. I have done things to these motors that people tell me are impossible..but they keep running. Parts fall off in the street....and they keep running. The only thing they won't leak is water....and they keep running. I look for things to fix that are not even broken. I guess that is why we love them so much.

 

[Nana]

....and they keep running. I look for things to fix that are not even broken. I guess that is why we love them so much.

And all this time I thought it was for that sexy, throaty rumble!!!! LOL!

 

[1550vt]

This thread is getting a bit aged, but I would like to make one last post. There may just be somebody out there that goes through this and the information could help.

First of all, thanks to all of those making suggestions. Your contributions were helpful, if nothing else but to remind me to do things I have already done and possibly forgotten about.

I just completed raking my front end and it has made all the difference in the world. A non-raked trike requires greater steering input in those sharp corners....and I mean a lot greater. This additional load has to go somewhere and it goes right into the frame at the neck, which is the fulcrum (pivot) for the handlebar lever. The raked front end requires much..much less steering input resulting in much less load being applied to the frame at the neck. I actually still think I have some component in the syatem that is not yet just right, but with the reduced loads being applied due to the steering improvement, any problem is not as pronounced. Frame members and connecting components are just not as stressed. Reksul is a mechanical engineer.....he can do the math if he wants to and explain all this stuff.

In other words....if I still have something broke, it does not feel nearly as bad as it did. I feel like I have a new scooter.

 

[ROAD DOG]

VT IF IT WAS MINE AFTER 2 MONTHS OF WORKING ON THIS & IT STILL HANDLES LIKE CRAP, I WOULD PART IT OUT & BUY A NEW ONE. IT MUST HAVE A BENT FRAME OR BENT REAR AXLE HOUSING IF IT ONLY DOGS ON ONE SIDE MORE THAN LIKELY WAS A SALVAGED BIKE ONCE UPON A TIME ??? GOOD LUCK

 

[1550vt]

I built her from scratch Road Dog. The bike had less than 10k on it and I got my hands on a brand spanking new kit from a dealer that would sell me one back when I converted it. I had never ruled anything out, but I am pretty sure all that is solid. I think I have just about whipped it. If I had raked it years ago, we would not even be having this discussion. There are still a couple of weak spots in the swing arm design up through the 2000 models. HD changed from those silicone-filled swing arm busings to solid bearings just after the 2000 model year and those things naturally have some "mush". I think that is all I am left with and the next time I have 2-days with nothing to do on my hands and feel like it...I will change those out and stick something like Stabo bushings in there.

 

[1550vt]

This was a pretty lively thread at one time. I need to cap it off with some good advice, which a few of you like me had already suspected.

I had helped my leaning problem greatly with the TG tree rake, but had commented that if I ever got the chance, I would trash those swing-arm cleave-blocks that us older rubber mounted motor folks were still running. The TG tree conversion helped it enough to prevent me from pushing the detonator handle and igniting all the C4 I had under the trike. Anyway, I had the occasion to rip out the rear end and while I was in there, I did install a set of Sta-Bo bushings and trashed the jelly-filled cleave-blocks.

WHAT a difference! I made all my routine testing loops (curves) and this thing now feels glued to the road. I am not promoting Sta-Bo and there are other manufacturers out there that make suspension improvement products. If you happen to have an early model, I think like 02 or earlier and plan to trike the thing, the first thing you need to do is eliminate the cleave-blocks with either a bushing or bearing kit. I have noticed only a very slight vibration in the floorboards, which is suppose to diminish as these bushings run-in. I don't care.....falling over in a right hand curve was my problem and I can live with the foot-tingle.

 

[Big_Steve]

I found this thread interesting, because my MT VTX sometimes sags hard on a sharp right turn, sometimes not. I'm no where near the mechanic you sound like. I double checked my tire and shock pressures, and played around a little. I also crawled up under the kit, not sure what I was looking for, but found nothing that seemed loose or bent, or rotted rubber.

The only thing that made a difference was bumping the adjustable shock on the right rear one notch higher than the left. That's taken most of the sag out. I guess I'll replace the shocks, thinking the right one is weak.

 

[1550vt]

Steve...I think Wizard has a MT, but his is on a late model frame and he would not have had those thing's (cleave blocks) that I was talking about. I do assume yours is a straight axle kit also. I tried different shocks during my investigation process, along with motor mounts and stabilizer links....anything that could move under stress....I swapped or eliminated and this included the tires. If you are not raked, the problem will be more noticeable. Raking mine took away much of the lean and made it rideable, but the sway never really disappeared. It is rather interesting that you and I have/had right hand turn problems. Don't overlook things as simple as tire pressure. I had to run mine up close to 30psi to hold it up so it would make a RH turn. Alignment....everything has to be aligned as close as possible. You have to eliminate any serious yaw.

I honestly don't know what a VTX is...but the swing-arm to transmission (or motor) to frame connection has to be rigid...within reason. A new shock may fix yours right up, but I would think that if you have a problem in RH turns....it would be the LH shock in question. That's where the load would be transferred to...the left side in a RH turn.

I can tell you how to check the alignment fairly easily if you want to PM me.

Good luck!

 

[Big_Steve]

Steve...I think Wizard has a MT, but his is on a late model frame and he would not have had those thing's (cleave blocks) that I was talking about. I do assume yours is a straight axle kit also. I tried different shocks during my investigation process, along with motor mounts and stabilizer links....anything that could move under stress....I swapped or eliminated and this included the tires. If you are not raked, the problem will be more noticeable. Raking mine took away much of the lean and made it rideable, but the sway never really disappeared. It is rather interesting that you and I have/had right hand turn problems. Don't overlook things as simple as tire pressure. I had to run mine up close to 30psi to hold it up so it would make a RH turn. Alignment....everything has to be aligned as close as possible. You have to eliminate any serious yaw.

I honestly don't know what a VTX is...but the swing-arm to transmission (or motor) to frame connection has to be rigid...within reason. A new shock may fix yours right up, but I would think that if you have a problem in RH turns....it would be the LH shock in question. That's where the load would be transferred to...the left side in a RH turn.

I can tell you how to check the alignment fairly easily if you want to PM me.

Good luck!

Yes, that is confusing me some. When I make a sharp right, the right side of the trike frequently sags alot. It feels similar to having a very soft tire on that side. The force is going towards the left side, so I wouldn't expect the right side to sag. The bike was level. When I cranked the right shock up one notch, the left side went down 1/4 inch, the right didn't change. It handles fine to the left, before and after I adjusted the shock.

Weird.........

 

[1550vt]

Yep...that sounds a bit weird, because you are throwing the weight away from the RH side. Must be a case of something "digging in" on the right as opposed to "laying out" on the left. I hope I am making sense....I am beginning to wonder myself.

Can you simply swap your shocks from one side to the other and see how it affects things. This..".it does it sometimes thing" will be even harder to catch. My thing did it's thing ALL the time.

 

[Big_Steve]

Yep...that sounds a bit weird, because you are throwing the weight away from the RH side. Must be a case of something "digging in" on the right as opposed to "laying out" on the left. I hope I am making sense....I am beginning to wonder myself.

Can you simply swap your shocks from one side to the other and see how it affects things. This..".it does it sometimes thing" will be even harder to catch. My thing did it's thing ALL the time.

Good idea.

 

[meredog]

my first trike was a Leman---because of Leman's unwillingness to talk to me as a customer--i would never own another

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Yes, that is confusing me some. When I make a sharp right, the right side of the trike frequently sags alot. It feels similar to having a very soft tire on that side. The force is going towards the left side, so I wouldn't expect the right side to sag. The bike was level. When I cranked the right shock up one notch, the left side went down 1/4 inch, the right didn't change. It handles fine to the left, before and after I adjusted the shock.

Weird.........

Could it be torque from the shaft drive powering through the rear??

 

[pourjim]

John Lehman told me to drop the rear air pressure to 20 lb. I did and the trike handled much better and the tires wear more even. You don't need 27 lb. for the little the Trike weighs.