Love Jugs.

[Capt.Bob]

Don't Leave Home Without Them!

Today was an absolutely beautiful day in North Florida with highs hitting 84 degrees F. I decided to ride down to the Gulf of Mexico on about a 230 mile round trip and followed the shoreline of the Gulf to an old fishing village called Apalachicola.

I was approaching the town going across a long bridge with water on both sides, a work crew was doing work on the bridge and held up traffic. Due to the warmth of the day, my EITMS kicked in but I was very, very comfortable just sitting there idling knowing that my Cool-Master fans were keeping my M8 jugs cooler than they would have been if I hadn't had them.

Then, I am coming home and taking a main artery leading to my home in suburban Tallahassee when I ran into traffic being halted for entry exit of parishioners from a large Catholic church that was celebrating Ash Wednesday in the midst of after work heavy traffic. Again, I was really, really delighted that I had the Love Jug Cool-Master fans because my former worries about cooking the engine were gone!

When I got home, I ran in an got my laser-guided infrared thermometer and recorded 239* F on the rear jug just behind the exposed spark plug pointing only at the black crinkle finish to get an accurate reading and about 210* F on the front jug in the same place for spark plug placement.

Since hearing about the M8's running temps up to at least 300* F, these were VERY comforting results. Additionally, I am noticing that when the M8 engine fans kick on for the Twin-Cooled radiators that they tend to stay on a bit longer than my 2016 TC103 fans did.
Anyway, for me, now moving into warmer and subsequently hotter weather with unknown stoppages to face on the road, I have decided that Love Jugs ought to consider the American Express motto of "Don't leave home without your Love Jugs". :Santa:

Disclaimer: I have NO vested interest in how many fans get sold and am fiercely independent when it comes to offering an unsolicited endorsement. I just frankly feel a hell of a lot better about my engine with these auxiliary cooling fans than ever before.

 

[TGCarol]

I'm very interested in the Cool Masters. I have a few questions for you guys that have them. Am I right in assuming that a thermo switch means that the fans kick on and off as needed? Is this something that is included or is it an extra purchase? Also, do you feel the hot air blowing onto your leg?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Gorilla]

The thermo switch yes does allow for the fans to run when the temp is above about 180. It then turns it off when it cools below that. So basically they are on most of the time, because it is not going to cool below that until you turn the motor off. It can reach that temp at an idle. The switch is slipped between the fins of one of the jugs. Yes when the fans are on you will get some heat on your leg but it is not near as hot as the stock header heat. I've had love jugs for about 5 years and 60k miles. If I bought a new 17 today I would put them on.

 

[TGCarol]

Thanks Gorilla. Are they automatically installed with a thermo switch or do I need to add one to my order?

 

[Papa Zook]

Today was an absolutely beautiful day in North Florida with highs hitting 84 degrees F. I decided to ride down to the Gulf of Mexico on about a 230 mile round trip and followed the shoreline of the Gulf to an old fishing village called Apalachicola.

I was approaching the town going across a long bridge with water on both sides, a work crew was doing work on the bridge and held up traffic. Due to the warmth of the day, my EITMS kicked in but I was very, very comfortable just sitting there idling knowing that my Cool-Master fans were keeping my M8 jugs cooler than they would have been if I hadn't had them.

Then, I am coming home and taking a main artery leading to my home in suburban Tallahassee when I ran into traffic being halted for entry exit of parishioners from a large Catholic church that was celebrating Ash Wednesday in the midst of after work heavy traffic. Again, I was really, really delighted that I had the Love Jug Cool-Master fans because my former worries about cooking the engine were gone!

When I got home, I ran in an got my laser-guided infrared thermometer and recorded 239* F on the rear jug just behind the exposed spark plug pointing only at the black crinkle finish to get an accurate reading and about 210* F on the front jug in the same place for spark plug placement.

Since hearing about the M8's running temps up to at least 300* F, these were VERY comforting results. Additionally, I am noticing that when the M8 engine fans kick on for the Twin-Cooled radiators that they tend to stay on a bit longer than my 2016 TC103 fans did.
Anyway, for me, now moving into warmer and subsequently hotter weather with unknown stoppages to face on the road, I have decided that Love Jugs ought to consider the American Express motto of "Don't leave home without your Love Jugs". :Santa:

Disclaimer: I have NO vested interest in how many fans get sold and am fiercely independent when it comes to offering an unsolicited endorsement. I just frankly feel a hell of a lot better about my engine with these auxiliary cooling fans than ever before.

I'm very interested in the Cool Masters. I have a few questions for you guys that have them. Am I right in assuming that a thermo switch means that the fans kick on and off as needed? Is this something that is included or is it an extra purchase? Also, do you feel the hot air blowing onto your leg?

Thanks for the help.

Carol,
There is no thermal switch and I very much like it that way. There is a switch on each fan to turn it on and off and its easily accessible while riding. You will not feel hot air blowing on your legs unless you are at a dead stand still and even then your cylinder temps will be 75-100 degrees cooler, so the air being blown off the cylinders is much cooler.

When in very slow traffic or stopped, having the fans on is most important and tilting your leg out away from the engine is not a problem, though usually you will not be in that situation long enough for it to be uncomfortable.

Remember, the most important benefit of the fans is that they protect the engine at all times, particularly when in slow, stop and go traffic and especially on the very hot days we endure in Texas and Florida.

 

[TGCarol]

Thanks Papa Zook. That answers all my questions .

 

[Gorilla]

Carol I added my own thermo switch that I all ready had. It's not even necessary. If I did not have one I would just wire them to a separate switch. The switches on the fans are easy to get to but I would just run one switch off the dash. That is just because it's easier when you are 70 then bending to find the fan switch. As Randy said you only feel the air blowing in stopped situations. Once you start moving you don't feel it.

 

[Capt.Bob]

Thanks Papa Zook. That answers all my questions .

Carol, Although I have the push button switch on each fan, my thought is to leave the fans on all of the time. Even on cooler days except when the temps get really low (I am not sure what temps that means?), the combustion going on inside of each large cylinder is likely enough to warrant the cooling fans running all of the time. I am not an engineer so really am shooting from the hip on this supposition. I generally ride with jeans on and cannot feel hot air on my right leg with my 2017 M8 Tri Glide that has the catalytic converter placed rearward from the rider. Given that the Cat is not as much in the picture with less felt heat than my former 2016 TC103, the fans do not seem to add any grief to me in terms of thermal issues on my right leg.

 

[PosseRider]

I plugged my fans into harness behind left side cover. Have not ridden since installation. 33* here for several days now. After having found the on/off switches on the fans, I decided I didn't need an additional switch. The buttons on the fans, are recessed in the 12 o'clock position. Shouldn't have to look down to find it. I will just reach down & operate.

 

[Capt.Bob]

Yesterday afternoon, a neighbor of mine who rides around our community in the afternoons sometimes, was riding by on his 2016 Twin-Cooled TC103 Ultra Limited. I ran out the door and flagged him down. He came into my driveway and I showed him the new Cool-Master fans from Love Jugs. I then went into my shop and got out my laser guided infrared thermometer and showed him that his front jug was about 230* and his rear jug was about 270* on a cool low 70's day. He remarked that he had only ridden from the house which was about 1.5 miles away and the temps were already at that level. I advised him that on our typical Florida days, his rear jug was likely routinely exceeding 300*.

He was amazed at the temps and said that he was going to be looking up Love Jugs at the Daytona Bike Week next week and would likely get a set installed at the rally. He had no idea that his bike was running that hot. I was tickled to help a fellow biker recognize the deleterious heat that these large cube bikes are putting out.

 

[grandpawj]

Yep, if mine is running, the fans are running. Seems to work great for me, I have only had my LG's for a year but now couldn't see myself without em. And, of course,.......there is a little more chrome to flash. chuckle, chuckle.

 

[bronxbill]

Yep, if mine is running, the fans are running. Seems to work great for me, I have only had my LG's for a year but now couldn't see myself without em. And, of course,.......there is a little more chrome to flash. chuckle, chuckle.

I agree, if I am riding, my fans are on no matter what the temperature is

 

[The Gitard]

Does anyone know if you need the vibration damper if you are using the frame mount? I was told vibration causes the fans to fail prematurely. Also, is there a thermal switch option available for love jugs? I have not see that in my internet travels. If not can someone suggest a part that will work. I would prefer to have a secondary control in case I forget to turn them off.

Thanks

 

[Papa Zook]

Does anyone know if you need the vibration damper if you are using the frame mount? I was told vibration causes the fans to fail prematurely. Also, is there a thermal switch option available for love jugs? I have not see that in my internet travels. If not can someone suggest a part that will work. I would prefer to have a secondary control in case I forget to turn them off.

Thanks

The frame mount + the Vibration Master is kind of the ultimate solution, but its not a necessity IMO. I have installed each, both individually and together and I like the frame mount alone best.

When mounted directly to the frame, the vibration is no where near as much as it is when bolted to the horn mount which of course is a bracket that spans the front and rear jugs. I agree with the above posters and would not recommend a thermal switch . If the bike is running the fans need to be running as well and when you turn the bike off the fans are off. Hope that answers your questions.

Also sent you a PM.

 

[The Gitard]

Thanks for the info...

In you opinion what would drop temps the most, external cooling or oil cooler? I am installing an oil cooler now but if that does not get me where I want to be, I am going to try the fans. I've already decatted my pipes but my wife still gets roasted if the ambient is above 80 degrees.

Pat

 

[Capt.Bob]

The frame mount + the Vibration Master is kind of the ultimate solution, but its not a necessity IMO. I have installed each, both individually and together and I like the frame mount alone best.

When mounted directly to the frame, the vibration is no where near as much as it is when bolted to the horn mount which of course is a bracket that spans the front and rear jugs. I agree with the above posters and would not recommend a thermal switch . If the bike is running the fans need to be running as well and when you turn the bike off the fans are off. Hope that answers your questions.

Also sent you a PM.

Papa Zook, FYI, for the 2017 M8-engined Tri Glide Ultra, the horn mount is more than adequate IMHO. The reason I say that is that the overall shake of the M8 engine is greatly reduced from the TC103 mounted in a Tri Glide. The only exception to this is when the EITMS becomes active and then there is some more shake from the rear cylinder shutting down. However, even in this configuration, I do not find that on the 2017's that anything other than the horn mount seems warranted. I am of course only speaking for the M8 in the Tri Glide. In other bikes, the shake may be more pronounced?

 

[Papa Zook]

I used to be far more concerned about oil temps, but then I realized that oil temps are a Result, not a Cause.

The Cylinder Head temperature and the piston temperature are the primary sources of the oil temperature.

While it is important to cool the oil with an oil cooler, cooler oil will not have a very big effect on cooling down the metal temperatures of the engine.

However, cooling down the metal on the engine will have a Very Big effect on not heating up the oil as much.

Kevin

Kevin made this point in another thread and I agree. Oil coolers help, but will not by themselves keep your Harley engine at a safe operating temperature on any given day, especially with the added weight and bulk of a trike, passenger, summer heat and stop and go traffic.

Thanks for the info...

In you opinion what would drop temps the most, external cooling or oil cooler? I am installing an oil cooler now but if that does not get me where I want to be, I am going to try the fans. I've already decatted my pipes but my wife still gets roasted if the ambient is above 80 degrees.

Pat

In my opinion if you had to choose just one, get the Love Jugs fans for the reasons stated above by Kevin and myself. Most newer touring bikes and trikes come equipped with a factory oil cooler, but if you want to do it right and it sounds like you do, get both the fans and a good aftermarket oil cooler like the ones Kevin sells.

Papa Zook, FYI, for the 2017 M8-engined Tri Glide Ultra, the horn mount is more than adequate IMHO. The reason I say that is that the overall shake of the M8 engine is greatly reduced from the TC103 mounted in a Tri Glide. The only exception to this is when the EITMS becomes active and then there is some more shake from the rear cylinder shutting down. However, even in this configuration, I do not find that on the 2017's that anything other than the horn mount seems warranted. I am of course only speaking for the M8 in the Tri Glide. In other bikes, the shake may be more pronounced?

I agree that the Vibration Master is adequate on the M8, but I was answering the OPs question regarding his twin cam Ultra Limited and some of those can be real paint shakers. Still, the frame mount is the better solution for either in my opinion. If you ran one, I think you would agree.

 

[The Gitard]

Thanks guys

Kevin..... I have the cooler and relocator in transit to me from DK.

Pappa Zook... next step will be the fans..do you sell the 8 pin connector? I did not see it in the store.. Are the fans all stainless and just painted depending on the color?

Thanks

Pat

 

[Papa Zook]

Thanks guys

Kevin..... I have the cooler and relocator in transit to me from DK.

Pappa Zook... next step will be the fans..do you sell the 8 pin connector? I did not see it in the store.. Are the fans all stainless and just painted depending on the color?

Thanks

Pat

Pat,

Yes, I do sell the 8 pin adapter and it is being added to the store as we speak. The Cool Master fans are built from stainless and the Mighty Mites are built from aluminum. The Cool Masters are offered in polished stainless, powder coat gloss back or powder coat flat black. The Mighty Mites are offered in powder coat flat black or triple chrome plated. Thanks for your business.

UPDATE: The 8 pin adapter is now in the store.

 

[daf62757]

Does it take a lot of modification to mount these on your trike/bike? How do they get their power and how hard is it to hook them into your bike's electrical system?

 

[Papa Zook]

Does it take a lot of modification to mount these on your trike/bike? How do they get their power and how hard is it to hook them into your bike's electrical system?

David,

It requires no modifications at all, other than removing the horn and the rubber dampener then bolting up the fans and the horn to the existing horn bracket. If you add the Vibration Master kit, it bolts on to the horn bracket first then the fans and horn bolts to it.

The kit comes with good clear instructions/diagrams that explain this and I can also send you a how to video link and pics I have taken of installs.

If you opt for the frame mount, you would have to dismount the gas tank, install the frame mount, which attaches with two long, stainless hose clamps, remount the tank and mount the fans. This method eliminates the original horn bracket and the fans and horn bolt to the frame mount.

There are two ways to wire it, one is to plug it into the accessory plug under your seat. If you are already using that accessory plug for something else (like a heated seat for an example) you can wire it directly to the battery using the fused wiring harness provided with the fan kit.

 

[Capt.Bob]

Felt Heat on M8 Right Side

For those that have not ridden a 2017 M8-engined HD with Cool-Master Love Jug fans, I am figured out yesterday on an 80+ degree day that the new and very large stock air cleaner housing blocks most of the air coming across the jugs left to right. I was stopped at a long red light with the EITMS in Active mode (rear jug turned into an air pump) and was putting my hand down near and around the large air cleaner that was immediately to the left of my right pant leg and boot. The front and back of the air cleaner fully extends beyond where my right leg rests on the floor board of my Tri Glide Ultra trike and there was virtually no hot air blowing anywhere near my leg. I did notice some hot air escaping laterally from the rear of the air cleaner housing area but it was behind my right leg.

There had been some concerns expressed about whether the LJ's cooked your right leg. I suspect that the TC103 air cleaners block a lot of the felt air moving from left to right as experienced by the rider as well?

 

[Capt.Bob]

For those that have not ridden a 2017 M8-engined HD with Cool-Master Love Jug fans, I am figured out yesterday on an 80+ degree day that the new and very large stock air cleaner housing blocks most of the air coming across the jugs left to right. I was stopped at a long red light with the EITMS in Active mode (rear jug turned into an air pump) and was putting my hand down near and around the large air cleaner that was immediately to the left of my right pant leg and boot. The front and back of the air cleaner fully extends beyond where my right leg rests on the floor board of my Tri Glide Ultra trike and there was virtually no hot air blowing anywhere near my leg. I did notice some hot air escaping laterally from the rear of the air cleaner housing area but it was behind my right leg.

There had been some concerns expressed about whether the LJ's cooked your right leg. I suspect that the TC103 air cleaners block a lot of the felt air moving from left to right as experienced by the rider as well?

I should mention that I have the DK Customs floor board extenders on my trike and don't know if that made much of a difference in terms of where the air was blowing around the large right-sided air cleaner?

 

[gerald martin]

Love jugs

For those that have not ridden a 2017 M8-engined HD with Cool-Master Love Jug fans, I am figured out yesterday on an 80+ degree day that the new and very large stock air cleaner housing blocks most of the air coming across the jugs left to right. I was stopped at a long red light with the EITMS in Active mode (rear jug turned into an air pump) and was putting my hand down near and around the large air cleaner that was immediately to the left of my right pant leg and boot. The front and back of the air cleaner fully extends beyond where my right leg rests on the floor board of my Tri Glide Ultra trike and there was virtually no hot air blowing anywhere near my leg. I did notice some hot air escaping laterally from the rear of the air cleaner housing area but it was behind my right leg.

There had been some concerns expressed about whether the LJ's cooked your right leg. I suspect that the TC103 air cleaners block a lot of the felt air moving from left to right as experienced by the rider as well?

So if your EITMS kicked on while your love jugs were running, are the love jugs doing any good at all. I am not running anything down but I am thinking of buying love jugs and if they don't cool the motor down enough for the back cylinder to quit shutting off I don't see their worth. I thought they were supposed to prevent that

 

[Capt.Bob]

So if your EITMS kicked on while your love jugs were running, are the love jugs doing any good at all. I am not running anything down but I am thinking of buying love jugs and if they don't cool the motor down enough for the back cylinder to quit shutting off I don't see their worth. I thought they were supposed to prevent that

FYI, The EITMS comes on based on ambient temperature now and not on cylinder temps. The Cool-Master fans are superb and I wouldn't run my trike without them ever again! Additionally, the water-cooled fans still come on after I shut down at times in the warm Florida climes which tells me that these engines are running quite warm. Anything I can do to tame my jug temps without getting into warranty issues seems like a win to me.

 

[Papa Zook]

A heads up to all who ordered your Love Jugs Cool Masters and Mighty Mites from me through the store. First, thank you for your orders and second, thank you for your patience.

All orders to date have been shipped except for a few that just came in and they will be shipped Monday or Tuesday when I receive my stock shipment. The Cool Masters went out from my shop as soon as the orders came in and the Mighty Mites shipped directly from Love Jugs but took a while as they were slammed with hundreds of orders.

I have forwarded a USPS tracking number to all who ordered so check your emails.

 

[gerald martin]

Love jugs

FYI, The EITMS comes on based on ambient temperature now and not on cylinder temps. The Cool-Master fans are superb and I wouldn't run my trike without them ever again! Additionally, the water-cooled fans still come on after I shut down at times in the warm Florida climes which tells me that these engines are running quite warm. Anything I can do to tame my jug temps without getting into warranty issues seems like a win to me.

Thank you for your response. I did not know the EITMS worked on ambient temp because I read in another post on this site that they worked on engine temp even on the new ones

 

[Capt.Bob]

2017 EITMS Murky

Geez fellow trike owners. I report what I find and then you ask me to technically back up what I have found???

Fair request but not one that presents with an easy answer when it comes to the EITMS on the 2017 M8-engined TGU. I signed up this early morning for the H-D Service Information Portal and was unable to buy access for any period of time to H-D service/functional information. There is a limited amount of data that can be gleaned for free. Also went to my 2017 Touring and Trike Model Service Manual and Service Manual Supplement and there was no information to be gleaned about the EITMS.

I am frankly stumped at the moment as to where to get reliable information on how, why and where the EITMS on the new M8-engine Twin-Cooled engine operates. I had read a brief anecdotal report from Kevin at DK Customs where he opined that the EITMS may not be operating on ambient temperatures. However, experientially the other day, when the temps were in the low 70's, the EITMS did not kick in with the Cool-Master fans running. However, when the ambient temperature hit about 80+ degrees with the Cool-Master fans running continuously, the EITMS was kicking on at long lights.

I am frankly as baffled at this point about what controls the EITMS and what conditions trigger its activation? A Google search did not offer the latest information on 2017 EITMS function. Then... I had this light bulb come on and after searching all of these more technical resources, I pulled out the frickin' 2017 Harley-Davidson Owner's Manual for Trike Models. In this very small manual I find the following:

"Operation

When engine temperature reaches a predetermined point, the EITMS turns off the rear cylinder fuel injector. The rear cylinder becomes an air pump which works to cool the engine.

EITMS activate (rear cylinder turns off) when all of the following conditions are met:

Ambient temperature or engine temperature exceeds temperature threshold.

Throttle control is at idle.

Vehicle speed under 1 mph (2km/h).

Engine Speed under 1200 rpm.

Note

EITMS does not activate within the first four minutes after starting the vehicle.

EITMS disables (rear cylinder begins firing again) if any one of the following occurs:

Ambient temperature or engine temperature falls below temperature threshold.

Throttle control is above idle.

Vehicle speed exceeds 2 mph (3km/h).

Engine speed exceed 1350 rpm.

Clutch is released with vehicle in gear.

Engaging reverse.

When the engine is in EITMS operation, you may notice a difference in idle cadence. Additionally, there may be a unique exhaust odor. Both are normal conditions". Information copied from Page 111 of Operation from the Trike Models, 2017 Harley-Davidson Owner's Manual Copyright 2016

Now, leave me alone and send me a large bucks to pay for my research efforts

 

[DK Custom Products]

That's strange that they don't tell you WHAT ambient temp or WHAT engine temp. Guess it's sorta like them not telling you what the oil pressure is...just if it is good or not.

On the Twin Cams, I believe it was in 2014 they started kicking on the EITMS when ambient temps hit 80*.

I do not like, nor do I need, the EITMS. So it is deactivated on my ride.

Kevin

P.S. Your check is in the mail for your research work.

 

[Fozworth]

Capt. Bob, before I put my check in the mail please answer just one more question.

I can see that the rear cylinder would get cooled off because it is no longer firing. But is the front cylinder now getting its butt kicked?

Is that why you disable the feature Kevin?

Thanks in advance.