Freewheeler "Chopper" Project

[Free Bird]

Jeff, are you changing the cam plate with the S& S oil pump?

No change to the cam plate Jack. I was advised hat it was not required. I had actually planned on it and then was told that the cam plate did not do as much for the oil distribution issues as the oil pump alone did. The Mo Co has no less than 5 revisions to oil pumps for 2017 M8's. So I figured that was a definite mod. Do you have different thoughts on the cam chest? I value your input.

 

[Jack Klarich]

No change to the cam plate Jack. I was advised hat it was not required. I had actually planned on it and then was told that the cam plate did not do as much for the oil distribution issues as the oil pump alone did. The Mo Co has no less than 5 revisions to oil pumps for 2017 M8's. So I figured that was a definite mod. Do you have different thoughts on the cam chest? I value your input.

Yeah, I dunno about the plate being an absolute, however if you are going as far as a new and IMO a very good cam choice, if it were my trike I would gear drive the cam and be done with the MOCO non sense of the NOT so silent and improved cam chain

That along with adjustable push rods will give you better valve timing, and a longer running engine with no fears of a POS hydraulic cam tensioner

Here is the NEW HD oil pump to cam plate seal it is working to keep the crank case oil from building up and not returning to the tank

 

[Free Bird]

Yeah, I dunno about the plate being an absolute, however if you are going as far as a new and IMO a very good cam choice, if it were my trike I would gear drive the cam and be done with the MOCO non sense of the NOT so silent and improved cam chain That along with adjustable push rods will give you better valve timing, and a longer running engine with no fears of a POS hydraulic cam tensioner. Here is the NEW HD oil pump to cam plate seal it is working to keep the crank case oil from building up and not returning to the tank

Gear vs Chain was a debate... Gears make perfect sense to me but the Woods guy and the Master Tech at my local MoCo outlet (Doc's) both said it was not something they felt was required since I was was not building a big cube hot rod engine. My target was not a big HP increase, but rather a steep initial torque curve to get the big tires and weight of the extras (along with my big carcass and my wife's petite frame) moving off the line and accelerating when needed. The Woods 22x and Zippers 468 had nearly the same curve, but I went with the Woods because Doc's has a relationship with them building M8 motors (check Woods dyno pages - Doc's is mapping some of their cams) and I thought I would take advantage of that. I will re-open the debate on gears though as it just makes too much sense. Thanks for that

I am not sure if gears = new cam chest or if the OEM cam chest bearings are tight enough to run gears without abnormal wear.... Do you know?

62400206 oil pump assembly cover replaces 62400125. Got it. I will add that to the parts list. What did they do differently on the 206? It looks like the oil pump sits on top of it so if it is the latest bit of engineering to improve oil flow and deal with migration I want to add it.

 

[Jack Klarich]

The new 206 part has a new and improved seal. HD thought the pump was losing suction on the scavenge side. I believe this was the cause of the oil sumping

As far as cam bearings, I would for sure change them You have a very cool project going on

The main reason I would go to gear drive ( even with out a big inch engine) is I do not like surprises

I had a 07 96 inch TC engine that blew up. Glad I had ESP

 

[Free Bird]

The new 206 part has a new and improved seal. HD thought the pump was losing suction on the scavenge side. I believe this was the cause of the oil sumping As far as cam bearings, I would for sure change them You have a very cool project going on The main reason I would go to gear drive ( even with out a big inch engine) is I do not like surprises I had a 07 96 inch TC engine that blew up. Glad I had ESP

Yep, the cam bearings will be changed as part of the normal cam swap, I was wondering if the OEM bearing design would tolerate the runout requirements of a cam with shaft tolerances designed for gears vs one designed for the slop that comes with a chain. The OEM may not work (from a geometric dimensioning and tolerancing standpoint)

 

[Jack Klarich]

Yep, the cam bearings will be changed as part of the normal cam swap, I was wondering if the OEM bearing design would tolerate the runout requirements of a cam with shaft tolerances designed for gears vs one designed for the slop that comes with a chain. The OEM may not work (from a geometric dimensioning and tolerancing standpoint)

OEM should support the cam, tho the Torrington bearing has more surface area

The bearings are bigger than stock to prevent cam walk and better support

Note no spacing between rollers unlike the stock INA bearing

 

[MDO]

When you adults start talking engine internals, I'm glad I don't have a clue what your talking about, or I might want to update mine.:xzqxz: It would not upset me to improve on the oil pump, but I'm not really seeing evidence there is a problem with my stock one & I don't have a clue which mod pump I have.

 

[Jack Klarich]

When you adults start talking engine internals, I'm glad I don't have a clue what your talking about, or I might want to update mine.:xzqxz: It would not upset me to improve on the oil pump, but I'm not really seeing evidence there is a problem with my stock one & I don't have a clue which mod pump I have.

As luck would have it me either

IMO it is more of a problem with the Twin cooled models

 

[Free Bird]

OEM should support the cam, tho the Torrington bearing has more surface area. The bearings are bigger than stock to prevent cam walk and better support

Note no spacing between rollers unlike the stock INA bearing

That is what I was talking about THANK YOU Jack. That gives me a leg to stand on when talking pinion run out for gears vs chains! Glad you love the details. You enrichen this web site and forum. Papa Zook ... give Jack a raise.

Thanks man

 

[haute pursuit]

Dang brother... I haven't be on here in a few months and I figured you would be tearing up pavement with flashing lights behind you by now! Can't wait to see the finished product!

 

[Free Bird]

Dang brother... I haven't be on here in a few months and I figured you would be tearing up pavement with flashing lights behind you by now! Can't wait to see the finished product!

Me too. I lost my place in line with the painter because of a shipping error, that has added 3 months to the paint job lead time. Supposed to have my parts in April. Hydraulic front end was a disaster, but I found a guy to make my springer, but here again.... it is a long waiting game.

Look on the bright side.... I can give up riding my Trike for Lent and it won't hurt so much.....:laugh:

 

[DK Custom Products]

Me too. I lost my place in line with the painter because of a shipping error, that has added 3 months to the paint job lead time. Supposed to have my parts in April. Hydraulic front end was a disaster, but I found a guy to make my springer, but here again.... it is a long waiting game.

Look on the bright side.... I can give up riding my Trike for Lent and it won't hurt so much.....:laugh:

I hate that for ya.

Will look forward to your engine upgrades that you get to do now!

Kevin

 

[Free Bird]

Next Chapter: "Good Things Don't Always Come to Those Who Wait"



I have been working with a fabricator since Dec 2nd on my front end with very little progress. There has always been some other project he had in the works that was trumping time for my springer. I was notified yesterday of an additional month's delay which would result in my not having forks until JUNE. So.....

:gah: No forks this year.

Really frustrating.... again. My forks seem to have some kind of curse on them. When the paint comes back the trike goes together and stays that way for the season.... Will continue the search for a fab guy who both knows what the he is doing and gives a about doing it for all of the cash he is getting for it.

It will still be a cool ride but :gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah:

 

[ShapeShifter]

I'm a believer that, "when one door closes, another will open". Can be a bit frustrating, but you'll get there.....

 

[Tucci]

Next Chapter: "Good Things Don't Always Come to Those Who Wait"



I have been working with a fabricator since Dec 2nd on my front end with very little progress. There has always been some other project he had in the works that was trumping time for my springer. I was notified yesterday of an additional month's delay which would result in my not having forks until JUNE. So.....

View attachment 68390 :gah: No forks this year.

Really frustrating.... again. My forks seem to have some kind of curse on them. When the paint comes back the trike goes together and stays that way for the season.... Will continue the search for a fab guy who both knows what the he is doing and gives a about doing it for all of the cash he is getting for it.

It will still be a cool ride but :gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah:

I'm old enough to remember when (1) a man's word was a bond (2) a handshake was as good as a written contract. (3) people took pride in their work.

 

[Jack Klarich]

A real bummer Jeff

Hang in there, when done you will have a 1 of a kind, a true custom:clapping:

 

[Free Bird]

A real bummer Jeff Hang in there, when done you will have a 1 of a kind, a true custom:clapping:

Yeah, I know.... I will keep working to find the right fab partner. This year paint and engine "stuff" Next year maybe the springer.....

Projecting the first week of April for the paint pick-up That will be cool. Engine parts nearly accumulated now. ....oh yeah.... we were talking about cams with gears vs chains.... here is what the cam designer (Bob Wood) replied to me on that point:

(My email)

Good Morning, I purchased a Wood 22x cam for my 2017 FLRT Trike. Do you sell a gear drive option for these cams? Is it possible to make it a gear driven cam rather a chain. Thanks in advance for the help

Jeff

(Reply from Bob Wood of Wood Performance)

No we don’t as your trike has the latest pump, cam plate & roller link chains that will operate at over 10,000 rpm.If u are trying to win a dyno shoot out for max power @ 6,000 rpm+ and want the last 1 hp, then you can use a gear drive.Bottom line is I would never try to sell someone an additional $550.00 for a gear drive that isn’t needed!!

Thanks

Bob Wood

 

[haute pursuit]

Man, that sux on the forks. I would definately be shopping for a different fab shop. I hope your luck turns brother!

 

[Free Bird]

Got word Paint will not be ready until after Easter..... so still....

 

[MDO]

Hell Free Bird , we will all be under water by then.

 

[Free Bird]

Hell Free Bird , we will all be under water by then.

That won't help....They'll still be working on the mural

 

[Free Bird]

Engine and tranny work completed....had a problem with the EBS install, but I got it worked out. M8 and TCs have very different options for routing the drain lines.... Be forewarned.... Exhaust mounting next.

Tall bars on for line mock up (going to braided steel everywhere). Starting to change shape and look more like the vision (except for the springer...dang-it)



And yes.... Still waiting for paint orag:

 

[haute pursuit]

That is looking good bro! I''m thinking about selling my one-off Freewheeler this summer. Going to buy one of these to take on The King of the Hammers race in Johnson Valley, CA and run Moab, Utah. Zero to 60 in 4.4 sec... Turbo with intercooler.

https://can-am.brp.com/off-road/side-by-side/maverick-x3/maverick-x3-x-rc-turbo-r.html

 

[haute pursuit]

Engine and tranny work completed....had a problem with the EBS install, but I got it worked out. M8 and TCs have very different options for routing the drain lines.... Be forewarned.... Exhaust mounting next.

Tall bars on for line mock up (going to braided steel everywhere). Starting to change shape and look more like the vision (except for the springer...dang-it)

View attachment 70221

And yes.... Still waiting for paint orag:

Oh yeah... that lift looks "big fat tire challenged" LOL

 

[Free Bird]

Hey Free Bird, any updates on the build? The painting should be close to done. Any news on the front end.

Yes, the paint SHOULD be done by now, I wholeheartedly agree. It has been at the painter since December.... But not complete. The flames are on, but not the additional graphics and clear coats. I am told it should be complete "by the end of the month". I hope so. I have Spring fever baaaaaad.

In an earlier post in this thread I reported that I abandoned the springer for this year. The fabricator kept pushing the dates out and when he said he would try to get it by June or July I said ok let's forget it for now. I just want to get the paint on it and get it back together.

The handlebars look cool on it.... (This was taken when Doc's was building the motor)

 

[Free Bird]

Oh yeah... that lift looks "big fat tire challenged" LOL

Yes.... everywhere I go it is the same.... orag:

I have to put the stock wheels and tires back on to get the dyno work done....

 

[Free Bird]

That is looking good bro! I''m thinking about selling my one-off Freewheeler this summer. Going to buy one of these to take on The King of the Hammers race in Johnson Valley, CA and run Moab, Utah. Zero to 60 in 4.4 sec... Turbo with intercooler.

https://can-am.brp.com/off-road/side-by-side/maverick-x3/maverick-x3-x-rc-turbo-r.html

That looks like 16 kinds of fun! Way cool! How about building out the Free to 128" and putting a roll cage and mudder tires on it? That would kill two birds with a single rock