Cam change recommendation and advise

[engprosinc]

I have a 2005 Ultra with the Lehman conversion with 20K on the clock. The dealership had installed big bore 103 engine kit with a street legal 203 cam when the conversion was made. The trike has a 5 speed tranny.

At present, the engine doesn't like to be in 4th or 5th gear unless the tach is at least 2,000 RPM. I would like it if the engine could deliver higher torque at midrange. Others who own (newer) trikes tell me to cam, cam, cam.

I spoke to Bob Woods, and he recommended a Knight Rider TW555 cam. Andrews said to leave the 203 alone and ride it as it is. A good friend and excellent mechanic said I should change the five speed tranny to a six speed. As you can see, confusion reigns supreme.

I have read many horrow stories about premature cam chain tensioner failures on this engine. I know that I have to inspect the cam chain tensioner pads before riding. I will have to take the cam cover off anyway, so while I am in there, I would plan on changing the bearings, cam support plate to the S&E support plate with hydraulic tensioners, and high capacity oil pump.

Four questions I present to my fellow trikers and mechanics:

1. Would you recommend a cam change, and is so, what cam would you recommend for this ride, and why?
2. Do I have to pull the entire exhaust sytem to remove the cam cover or just the front header pipe and brackets? If I have to remove the entire exhaust system, I am reluctant to undertake this job in my garage.
3. Are there tricks to the trade for removing the header pipe?
4. Any thoughts my plans to change to the S&E support plate and oil pump?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[tbear]

I have a 2005 Ultra with the Lehman conversion with 20K on the clock. The dealership had installed big bore 103 engine kit with a street legal 203 cam when the conversion was made. The trike has a 5 speed tranny.

At present, the engine doesn't like to be in 4th or 5th gear unless the tach is at least 2,000 RPM. I would like it if the engine could deliver higher torque at midrange. Others who own (newer) trikes tell me to cam, cam, cam.

I spoke to Bob Woods, and he recommended a Knight Rider TW555 cam. Andrews said to leave the 203 alone and ride it as it is. A good friend and excellent mechanic said I should change the five speed tranny to a six speed. As you can see, confusion reigns supreme.

I have read many horrow stories about premature cam chain tensioner failures on this engine. I know that I have to inspect the cam chain tensioner pads before riding. I will have to take the cam cover off anyway, so while I am in there, I would plan on changing the bearings, cam support plate to the S&E support plate with hydraulic tensioners, and high capacity oil pump.

Four questions I present to my fellow trikers and mechanics:

1. Would you recommend a cam change, and is so, what cam would you recommend for this ride, and why?
2. Do I have to pull the entire exhaust sytem to remove the cam cover or just the front header pipe and brackets? If I have to remove the entire exhaust system, I am reluctant to undertake this job in my garage.
3. Are there tricks to the trade for removing the header pipe?
4. Any thoughts my plans to change to the S&E support plate and oil pump?

Any help would be appreciated.

I would go with what Bob Woods said and Have a Qualified mechanic perform the job,period!:Coffeethey know what has to be done and expect to spend some Cash!)cam,exhaust,tuner and you are ready to goThumbUp

 

[engprosinc]

I would go with what Bob Woods said and Have a Qualified mechanic perform the job,period!:Coffeethey know what has to be done and expect to spend some Cash!)cam,exhaust,tuner and you are ready to goThumbUp

Thanks for your feedback. Would you suggest compression release cams?

 

[PIGGI]

I have a 2005 Ultra with the Lehman conversion with 20K on the clock. The dealership had installed big bore 103 engine kit with a street legal 203 cam when the conversion was made. The trike has a 5 speed tranny.

At present, the engine doesn't like to be in 4th or 5th gear unless the tach is at least 2,000 RPM. I would like it if the engine could deliver higher torque at midrange. Others who own (newer) trikes tell me to cam, cam, cam.

At 2000 rpm you are lugging that motor. even with the 6 speed I don't run under 2700-2800 rpm and try to keep it around 3200 on the highway. Might be nothing for you to do but change your riding style.

 

[tom w]

At 2000 rpm you are lugging that motor. even with the 6 speed I don't run under 2700-2800 rpm and try to keep it around 3200 on the highway. Might be nothing for you to do but change your riding style.

:Agree::Agree::Agree:

I too had a hard time adjusting to the increase in rpm, but even with s&s 551 compression release cam I have found the sweet spot is about 2700- 3400. as for changing the trans, well that's up to your preference. I find at 75mph its running about 3200 in 5th gear . only use 6th on higher speed interstate and flat level stretches above 70mph.
when my ultra had 2 wheels (110 motor) I had a s.e.255 cam. ran about the same rpm range as you. ran fine but I ended up with a carbon problem from luging too much.

I like the compression release cam. stops a lot of kicking back on the starter.

 

[msocko3]

I have a 2005 Ultra with the Lehman conversion with 20K on the clock. The dealership had installed big bore 103 engine kit with a street legal 203 cam when the conversion was made. The trike has a 5 speed tranny.

At present, the engine doesn't like to be in 4th or 5th gear unless the tach is at least 2,000 RPM. I would like it if the engine could deliver higher torque at midrange. Others who own (newer) trikes tell me to cam, cam, cam.

I spoke to Bob Woods, and he recommended a Knight Rider TW555 cam. Andrews said to leave the 203 alone and ride it as it is. A good friend and excellent mechanic said I should change the five speed tranny to a six speed. As you can see, confusion reigns supreme.

I have read many horrow stories about premature cam chain tensioner failures on this engine. I know that I have to inspect the cam chain tensioner pads before riding. I will have to take the cam cover off anyway, so while I am in there, I would plan on changing the bearings, cam support plate to the S&E support plate with hydraulic tensioners, and high capacity oil pump.

Four questions I present to my fellow trikers and mechanics:

1. Would you recommend a cam change, and is so, what cam would you recommend for this ride, and why?
2. Do I have to pull the entire exhaust sytem to remove the cam cover or just the front header pipe and brackets? If I have to remove the entire exhaust system, I am reluctant to undertake this job in my garage.
3. Are there tricks to the trade for removing the header pipe?
4. Any thoughts my plans to change to the S&E support plate and oil pump?

Any help would be appreciated.

I'm a little confused on the 103 build, did your dealer pull the engine, split the cases to install the 4 3/8" stroker crank and increased the bore to 3 7/8"? Did they swap the heads? does your heads have a Screamin Eagle tag on the right side? The reason I ask is HD did at one point make a Screamin Eagle 103 kit for the 88" Twin Cams, it made the 88 TC into the same 103 they used to use in the pre 2007 CVO bikes.

When you talked with Bob Wood I believe he was confused at which 103 you have, I'm betting he was thinking you have an 06 Dyna 07 and later Touring Twin Cam vs the 99 - 06 Touring Twin cam. Bob doesn't offer TW555 cams for your 05, the closest is the TW6.

You mention the engine doesn't like 2,000 rpm in 4th or 5th gear, 2k is too low of an RPM for a trike to be stooging around in 4th or 5th gear, your asking to shift the crank. I wouldn't run 4th or 5th until 2,500 RPM at the lowest.

I'm reluctant to offer cam advice not knowing just what you have in that engine. I can say you will have to pull the exhaust to change the cams.

Depending on how you want to go about a cam swap. If you stick with the stock push rods you will have to pull the gas tank, pull the rocker box tops off, remove the exhaust, remove the rocker supports, to remove the supports you will have to spin engine until the cylinder your removing the rocker support is on the heal of the cam lobe before you remove the rocker support. If you go to quick install adjustable push rods you can leave the tank on because you can spin the engine over until each cylinder is on the heal of the cam lobe and clip the push rod for that cylinder with bolt cutters. You want to make sure you have the service manual before you under take a cam swap.

If you haven't read it yet here is a thread on a cam swap for an 07 and later Twin Cam http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/8282-How-to-Change-Cams-in-a-2007-and-up-Harley. Your 05 will be a touch different, the gas tank is a PIA to remove since you have a cross over line, your cam plate will be different and your exhaust will come off different.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

I'm a little confused on the 103 build, did your dealer pull the engine, split the cases to install the 4 3/8" stroker crank and increased the bore to 3 7/8"? Did they swap the heads? does your heads have a Screamin Eagle tag on the right side? The reason I ask is HD did at one point make a Screamin Eagle 103 kit for the 88" Twin Cams, it made the 88 TC into the same 103 they used to use in the pre 2007 CVO bikes.

When you talked with Bob Wood I believe he was confused at which 103 you have, I'm betting he was thinking you have an 06 Dyna 07 and later Touring Twin Cam vs the 99 - 06 Touring Twin cam. Bob doesn't offer TW555 cams for your 05, the closest is the TW6.

You mention the engine doesn't like 2,000 rpm in 4th or 5th gear, 2k is too low of an RPM for a trike to be stooging around in 4th or 5th gear, your asking to shift the crank. I wouldn't run 4th or 5th until 2,500 RPM at the lowest.

I'm reluctant to offer cam advice not knowing just what you have in that engine. I can say you will have to pull the exhaust to change the cams.

Depending on how you want to go about a cam swap. If you stick with the stock push rods you will have to pull the gas tank, pull the rocker box tops off, remove the exhaust, remove the rocker supports, to remove the supports you will have to spin engine until the cylinder your removing the rocker support is on the heal of the cam lobe before you remove the rocker support. If you go to quick install adjustable push rods you can leave the tank on because you can spin the engine over until each cylinder is on the heal of the cam lobe and clip the push rod for that cylinder with bolt cutters. You want to make sure you have the service manual before you under take a cam swap.

If you haven't read it yet here is a thread on a cam swap for an 07 and later Twin Cam http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/8282-How-to-Change-Cams-in-a-2007-and-up-Harley. Your 05 will be a touch different, the gas tank is a PIA to remove since you have a cross over line, your cam plate will be different and your exhaust will come off different.

:Agree:

 

[Trent]

2,000 rpm is not a good thing for that motor. I just changed from the 255's to the 259E's, along with some other parts too of course. With the 255's I never ran below 2,500 to 2,600 rpm. Now my new benchmark is 2,800 rpms. 3,100 to 3,300 seems to be the sweet spot, and I run up to 4,000 before I shift. 6th gear is now an overdrive, and I don't use it unless I am on the freeway going over 75 mph. It will run at 4,000 rpm all day with no prob in 6th gear. My tech told me that 4,500 is no problem either, but 95 mph is fast enough on the freeway for me. It pulls a 7% grade in 5th gear, 2 up, at 75 mph at 3,400 rpm, and there is plenty more left if I want it. Took about 5 tanks of gas for the computer to adjust itself, and now I am back to 32 mpg no matter how I drive it. Ya gotta keep those rpm's up for maximum efficiency.

 

[geezerglide11441]

2,000 rpm is not a good thing for that motor. I just changed from the 255's to the 259E's, along with some other parts too of course. With the 255's I never ran below 2,500 to 2,600 rpm. Now my new benchmark is 2,800 rpms. 3,100 to 3,300 seems to be the sweet spot, and I run up to 4,000 before I shift. 6th gear is now an overdrive, and I don't use it unless I am on the freeway going over 75 mph. It will run at 4,000 rpm all day with no prob in 6th gear. My tech told me that 4,500 is no problem either, but 95 mph is fast enough on the freeway for me. It pulls a 7% grade in 5th gear, 2 up, at 75 mph at 3,400 rpm, and there is plenty more left if I want it. Took about 5 tanks of gas for the computer to adjust itself, and now I am back to 32 mpg no matter how I drive it. Ya gotta keep those rpm's up for maximum efficiency.

:Agree:

 

[SEABILL]

You already got the best advice, but wanted to add a couple of thoughts.

The sweet spot my '06 Ultra with a 95 Big Bore kit and SE203 cams is around 2800 rpms. Of course it is a 95 and on two wheels, but there shouldn't be that much of a difference.

I installed the manual compression releases on it and they really help relieve some of the stress on the starter.

When the local Harley shop installed the upgrade in the winter of 2006/2007 they knew about the cam chain tensioner problem and told me that they installed a different chain and tensioner that should have a longer service life.

If you know the person that did the work on yours, you might ask him if he upgraded the chain and tensioner.

 

[engprosinc]

At 2000 rpm you are lugging that motor. even with the 6 speed I don't run under 2700-2800 rpm and try to keep it around 3200 on the highway. Might be nothing for you to do but change your riding style.

You might very well be correct. You aren't the first person to say that.
Thanks,

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:Agree::Agree::Agree:

I too had a hard time adjusting to the increase in rpm, but even with s&s 551 compression release cam I have found the sweet spot is about 2700- 3400. as for changing the trans, well that's up to your preference. I find at 75mph its running about 3200 in 5th gear . only use 6th on higher speed interstate and flat level stretches above 70mph.
when my ultra had 2 wheels (110 motor) I had a s.e.255 cam. ran about the same rpm range as you. ran fine but I ended up with a carbon problem from luging too much.

I like the compression release cam. stops a lot of kicking back on the starter.

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

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You already got the best advice, but wanted to add a couple of thoughts.

The sweet spot my '06 Ultra with a 95 Big Bore kit and SE203 cams is around 2800 rpms. Of course it is a 95 and on two wheels, but there shouldn't be that much of a difference.

I installed the manual compression releases on it and they really help relieve some of the stress on the starter.

When the local Harley shop installed the upgrade in the winter of 2006/2007 they knew about the cam chain tensioner problem and told me that they installed a different chain and tensioner that should have a longer service life.

If you know the person that did the work on yours, you might ask him if he upgraded the chain and tensioner.

Thanks, I will try.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm a little confused on the 103 build, did your dealer pull the engine, split the cases to install the 4 3/8" stroker crank and increased the bore to 3 7/8"? Did they swap the heads? does your heads have a Screamin Eagle tag on the right side? The reason I ask is HD did at one point make a Screamin Eagle 103 kit for the 88" Twin Cams, it made the 88 TC into the same 103 they used to use in the pre 2007 CVO bikes.

When you talked with Bob Wood I believe he was confused at which 103 you have, I'm betting he was thinking you have an 06 Dyna 07 and later Touring Twin Cam vs the 99 - 06 Touring Twin cam. Bob doesn't offer TW555 cams for your 05, the closest is the TW6.

You mention the engine doesn't like 2,000 rpm in 4th or 5th gear, 2k is too low of an RPM for a trike to be stooging around in 4th or 5th gear, your asking to shift the crank. I wouldn't run 4th or 5th until 2,500 RPM at the lowest.

I'm reluctant to offer cam advice not knowing just what you have in that engine. I can say you will have to pull the exhaust to change the cams.

Depending on how you want to go about a cam swap. If you stick with the stock push rods you will have to pull the gas tank, pull the rocker box tops off, remove the exhaust, remove the rocker supports, to remove the supports you will have to spin engine until the cylinder your removing the rocker support is on the heal of the cam lobe before you remove the rocker support. If you go to quick install adjustable push rods you can leave the tank on because you can spin the engine over until each cylinder is on the heal of the cam lobe and clip the push rod for that cylinder with bolt cutters. You want to make sure you have the service manual before you under take a cam swap.

If you haven't read it yet here is a thread on a cam swap for an 07 and later Twin Cam http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/8282-How-to-Change-Cams-in-a-2007-and-up-Harley. Your 05 will be a touch different, the gas tank is a PIA to remove since you have a cross over line, your cam plate will be different and your exhaust will come off different.

Thanks for your feedback. When you said remove the exhaust, do you mean the entire exhaust and mufflers, or just the head pipe on the front cylinde. If the entire exhaust, I will leave this job to the stealer, especially if the cam isn't going to be changed.
Again, thanks,

 

[engprosinc]

At 2000 rpm you are lugging that motor. even with the 6 speed I don't run under 2700-2800 rpm and try to keep it around 3200 on the highway. Might be nothing for you to do but change your riding style.

I am hearing the same recommendation. Higher RPM's. Too many are telling me that to be wrong.
Again, thanks,

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You might very well be correct. You aren't the first person to say that.
Thanks,

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Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

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Thanks, I will try.

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Thanks for your feedback. When you said remove the exhaust, do you mean the entire exhaust and mufflers, or just the head pipe on the front cylinde. If the entire exhaust, I will leave this job to the stealer, especially if the cam isn't going to be changed.
Again, thanks,

There is a tag on the right side of the rear cylinder head with "Screamin Eagle 103". I can send a picture.

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:Agree:

Thanks. I will. Guess I am still used to the last bike, an 07 Ultra with the 6 speed and SE 103. Ran much lower RPM's but the ride was lighter, as was I.
Thanks,

 

[msocko3]

Thanks for your feedback. When you said remove the exhaust, do you mean the entire exhaust and mufflers, or just the head pipe on the front cylinde. If the entire exhaust, I will leave this job to the stealer, especially if the cam isn't going to be changed. Again, thanks,

Yes the entire exhaust will have to come off, IMO the pre 09 exhaust is a PIA to remove. I can have the newer exhaust off in a matter of 15 minutes.

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There is a tag on the right side of the rear cylinder head with "Screamin Eagle 103". I can send a picture.

It sounds like they did the 103 build like they had on the older CVO's. The only puzzler is the cams, that build did not come with 203's, it came with 253's unless the dealer doing the build exchanged them.

 

[RickDeVon]

I don't know...but I would bet it's a 95 build not a 103...I could be wrong...

 

[msocko3]

I don't know...but I would bet it's a 95 build not a 103...I could be wrong...

Not saying it couldn't be a 95", but the heads are associated with the CVO 103 build they used to offer. To run them on a 95 they could have to either reshape the combustion chambers or come up with pistons for that shape. The old CVO 103 head had a round shaped large combustion chamber vs the bathtub the standard head has.