New engine and oil usage

[Zammy]

We were careful breaking in our '21 CVO per the manual, at the 1,000 mile fluid change the oil was down almost a quart, no metal on the plug or filter. We now have 3,300 miles on and have had to add 2 1/2 quarts to keep it at the proper level. We have also made sure our dealer is aware and they have documented the usage and mileage on paper. Since the last top off 2 weeks ago, we've put on about 400 miles and need another 1/2 quart.

There are no drips of oil when it is parked and we've had different folks follow us and report they don't see any smoke or smell anything at all, it's perplexing. I've had my fingers up in the exhaust and it's dry, just some dark gray/black as expected. We have an appointment next week to take it in for a few days and see if they find anything, service bulletins, etc.

 

[rhino 2]

We were careful breaking in our '21 CVO per the manual, at the 1,000 mile fluid change the oil was down almost a quart, no metal on the plug or filter. We now have 3,300 miles on and have had to add 2 1/2 quarts to keep it at the proper level. We have also made sure our dealer is aware and they have documented the usage and mileage on paper. Since the last top off 2 weeks ago, we've put on about 400 miles and need another 1/2 quart.

There are no drips of oil when it is parked and we've had different folks follow us and report they don't see any smoke or smell anything at all, it's perplexing. I've had my fingers up in the exhaust and it's dry, just some dark gray/black as expected. We have an appointment next week to take it in for a few days and see if they find anything, service bulletins, etc.

Sounds like oil migration but that was only the transmission oil that migrated to the primary .And if you are losing because of over filling the oil would be coming out of the air filter and down your right leg..

 

[Peter A.]

Oil usage

Keep us informed on your oil issue - sad to hear of it on that NEW CVO!

:Shrug:

 

[Koolbreeze]

Are you using HD Synthetic or the standard HD 360?

The reason I ask is my 2019 used a bit of oil when I had Synthetic in it.

Does not use much now since I switched over to HD 360, maybe 1/4 quart every 5,000 miles. I do run it hard and keep the RPMs up so that might explain some of the usage.

Once I got about 5,000 miles on mine things settled down.

I have also found that when filling it up to the full line, it will suck some of the oil out the breathers vents into the throttle body. I keep the oil level lower on the stick about on the lower end of the crosshatch mark and it seems to stay there without using the oil.

Good luck!

 

[Jack Klarich]

They will start with a leak down test and a bore scope

I will not be surprised if they replace the cylinders and pistons, there has been an ongoing problem with many M8 cylinders

Best of luck , I am watching to see what they do

 

[Trampas]

Sorry to hear about your oil trouble especially on a 2021 CVO which costs a arm and a leg to get. If it isn't the trannie to primary leakage it is something else. Basically I think harley has went down hill in the last 10 years, if it one thing after another, sure wish they would get it together, no wonder they are hurting, you go to a harley dealer and you don't see any bikes so to speak, looks bad, they have not trouble keeping t shirts and their clothing line stock, but that is all over sea crap that is over priced. I'm surprised on that since the shipping docks are so full and not moving.

All for now Trampas

P.S. Looking forward to see what your dealer has to say about this

 

[PosseRider]

Sorry to hear Gary, best of luck to finding a fix.

 

[ol' school]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Gary. Hope they figure it out for you.

 

[Zammy]

I have used Redline synthetic in all my Harleys, never had any problems at all. There is no oil in the AC, pretty clean as I always run the oil a little below the line when hot so no blowing out the breathers. In the mean time, my dealer gave me another quart so I can still ride till we get it in next week.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Following and hoping for the best outcome for you

 

[rhino 2]

I have used Redline synthetic in all my Harleys, never had any problems at all. There is no oil in the AC, pretty clean as I always run the oil a little below the line when hot so no blowing out the breathers. In the mean time, my dealer gave me another quart so I can still ride till we get it in next week.

You have to be burning the oil....Its gotta be going some where if its not dripping out...

With Synthetic oil it wont smoke like regular oil..But it does leave a distinctive oder..

But this is all speculation on our part ...Ride it and let the dealer figure it out...

 

[Jack Klarich]

You have to be burning the oil....Its gotta be going some where if its not dripping out...

With Synthetic oil it wont smoke like regular oil..But it does leave a distinctive oder..

But this is all speculation on our part ...Ride it and let the dealer figure it out...

The M8 engines with a bit higher compression , 4 valves and dual plugs could burn up that oil and not leave much of a trail I bet

If there is no sign of leakage, it would be highly unlikely for me to think this engine has sumped ( a common problem to some M8 engines) the crankcase could not store that much oil and still run, that leaves cylinders ( known for out of round specs and poor ring seal) JMO

 

[windsurfed]

My 2020 Triglide did the same thing when it was new. I started noticing it after the 1000 mile check up/oil change. (Actually had 1340 miles when I went in for the 1000 mile check up) I suspect When they changed the oil, they left it 1/2 quart short of full. Like you said, there was no evidence of oil dripping/leaking or smoke coming out the exhaust pipe. At 5665 miles I checked and change the oil myself and found out It was down a 1 1/2 quarts. At 7381 miles I took it down to the dealer and had them change the oil immediately ($147)so we all could keep a close eye on the oil consumption.

Conclusion:It uses approximately 1 quart every 4100 miles.(or about 1 ounce every 128 miles) I just use the Harley Davidson SYN 3 full synthetic oil. So that is where I am at today and I have a 17,028 miles on the Triglide.

I like motorcycles that do not use any oil at all. And I am content at this point to just leave it alone.

 

[windsurfed]

Oil consumption

The allowable oil usage/consumption on the M8 engine according to Harley Davidson is 26 ounces of oil every 1000 miles. Sounds far-fetched to me, but that was the quote from the Harley Davidson manufacturing.

 

[rhino 2]

The allowable oil usage/consumption on the M8 engine according to Harley Davidson is 26 ounces of oil every 1000 miles. Sounds far-fetched to me, but that was the quote from the Harley Davidson manufacturing.

There is normal and then there is Harley Davison normal.

I went through the Harley Davidson normal with a 2017 Triglide and oil migration!..

 

[Old Road Dog]

I dont know why some M8's consume more oil than others. Mine is fine but the first thing I did was the breather bypass. Im convinced that the worst thing for your motor is all that snot being sucked back into the motor. Check out DK Customs website for the information.

 

[Zammy]

I agree on the breather bypass Michael, had it on my '15 but until we get this sorted I'm leaving it completely stock. The oil level is where it should be now, riding this weekend several hundred miles, we will see what happens.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I agree on the breather bypass Michael, had it on my '15 but until we get this sorted I'm leaving it completely stock. The oil level is where it should be now, riding this weekend several hundred miles, we will see what happens.

Gary, did you take your trike in yet?

 

[Zammy]

No Jack, when they gave me the oil, they said 400 miles and we'll bring it in. They have talked to corporate about the problem and will bring someone in once I have the required 400 miles on her.

 

[Jack Klarich]

No Jack, when they gave me the oil, they said 400 miles and we'll bring it in. They have talked to corporate about the problem and will bring someone in once I have the required 400 miles on her.

I hope this turns out good for you

 

[My Turn]

Here is my oil usage story.

2020 Freewheeler with 114 motor, it was pushing oil out the breather tubes into the air filter from day one. Early on I did an external breather mod so the oil was going on the ground instead of into my throttle body. Oil level was always set no higher than half way up the normal range. ( 4 dots up from add)

I began carefully tracking it and it was pushing out a quart every 1500 to 2500 miles, constantly "marking its spot"

I Bought the Mad Monkey ventilator and plumbed that thru an S&S check valve and 3/8 hose to ground, still with the external breather mod. Now I was getting 2 spots of oil wherever I parked the bike.

. Consumption stayed about the same.

Along the way I did a compression test which showed great compression. Also, the bike runs great and pulls hard.

Took it to the dealer to see if they would do anything. They noted the oil level and said come back in 1500 miles. When I went back I was down almost a quart and of course they told me it was perfectly normal and within limits. Thanks for nothing HD service.

End of February comes around and my warranty is up so I ordered a 1/8 mpt by 3/8 hose barb stainless fitting, took off the transmission cover plate, drilled and tapped it, punched a couple holes in the gasket and installed a piece of hose and check valve. This completely cured the problem. 700 miles and the oil level has not moved a bit. I still have the external breather and it pukes a little oily snot from time to time but it is not pushing out oil every time I ride.

So... for me 20 bucks of materials and a little time spent has fixed a problem that was nagging at me for 17,000 miles.

 

[DK Custom Products]

I would ask for a Leak Down Test to be done. If they will not do it for free, I've told them I will pay for it, UNLESS it is less than 90%, then they pay for the test and for the repair needed to get it up to 95% plus.

That much oil being pushed thru the system is quite possibly from too much compression being pushed passed the rings, building crankcase pressure, which is then vented via the breathers.

Kevin

 

[My Turn]

I would ask for a Leak Down Test to be done. If they will not do it for free, I've told them I will pay for it, UNLESS it is less than 90%, then they pay for the test and for the repair needed to get it up to 95% plus.

That much oil being pushed thru the system is quite possibly from too much compression being pushed passed the rings, building crankcase pressure, which is then vented via the breathers.

Kevin

Kevin I completely agree. I was thinking of trying that approach at my dealer but after asking 5 TIMES for the service manager to call me or to meet with me about this and never getting a call I gave up and took matters into my own hands. FWIW the service writer I was dealing with assured me multiple times that the manager would contact me.:Shrug:

I guess "stonewalling the customer" is a service dept. tactic. You can easily figure out from my location which HD dealer this is.

 

[Koolbreeze]

Here is my oil usage story.

2020 Freewheeler with 114 motor, it was pushing oil out the breather tubes into the air filter from day one. Early on I did an external breather mod so the oil was going on the ground instead of into my throttle body. Oil level was always set no higher than half way up the normal range. ( 4 dots up from add)

I began carefully tracking it and it was pushing out a quart every 1500 to 2500 miles, constantly "marking its spot"

I Bought the Mad Monkey ventilator and plumbed that thru an S&S check valve and 3/8 hose to ground, still with the external breather mod. Now I was getting 2 spots of oil wherever I parked the bike.

. Consumption stayed about the same.

Along the way I did a compression test which showed great compression. Also, the bike runs great and pulls hard.

Took it to the dealer to see if they would do anything. They noted the oil level and said come back in 1500 miles. When I went back I was down almost a quart and of course they told me it was perfectly normal and within limits. Thanks for nothing HD service.

End of February comes around and my warranty is up so I ordered a 1/8 mpt by 3/8 hose barb stainless fitting, took off the transmission cover plate, drilled and tapped it, punched a couple holes in the gasket and installed a piece of hose and check valve. This completely cured the problem. 700 miles and the oil level has not moved a bit. I still have the external breather and it pukes a little oily snot from time to time but it is not pushing out oil every time I ride.

So... for me 20 bucks of materials and a little time spent has fixed a problem that was nagging at me for 17,000 miles.

Just a question: The transmission is in no way connected to the engine oil, they are two separate systems, how would venting the transmission affect the engine oil consumption? Thanks for any explanation as I am not understanding it.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Just a question: The transmission is in no way connected to the engine oil, they are two separate systems, how would venting the transmission affect the engine oil consumption? Thanks for any explanation as I am not understanding it.

If you look inside the top of the transmission you will see the oil return passage, there is a return and a vent passage. By using the aftermarket kits you can vent the crankcase into the proper passage in the tranny to relieve the excess crankcase pressures that cause the oil to pump like mad out the head breather bolts= sharply higher oil usage

Watch this video it shows the inside of the tranny

https://shop.traskperformance.com/products/check-m8-vented-trans-top-cover

 

[My Turn]

If you look inside the top of the transmission you will see the oil return passage, there is a return and a vent passage. By using the aftermarket kits you can vent the crankcase into the proper passage in the tranny to relieve the excess crankcase pressures that cause the oil to pump like mad out the head breather bolts= sharply higher oil usage

Watch this video it shows the inside of the tranny

https://shop.traskperformance.com/products/check-m8-vented-trans-top-cover

That is not quite correct. The so called transmission cover covers 3 separate cavities in the casting. The one on rider's right is a chamber with passageways to the cam chest and to the oil pan or sump. This cavity is completely isolated from the transmission. Venting this cavity to atmosphere (not to the tranny) relieves crankcase pressure and for me eliminated 99% of my oil "carryover or puking.

The Trask Check-M8 does this but an inexpensive DIY does the exact same thing.

 

[Jack Klarich]

That is not quite correct. The so called transmission cover covers 3 separate cavities in the casting. The one on rider's right is a chamber with passageways to the cam chest and to the oil pan or sump. This cavity is completely isolated from the transmission. Venting this cavity to atmosphere (not to the tranny) relieves crankcase pressure and for me eliminated 99% of my oil "carryover or puking.

The Trask Check-M8 does this but an inexpensive DIY does the exact same thing.

Thanks for the correction and you are correct, I got a head of myself

HD should have known this and corrected it when they vented the primary IMO

Another on going problem with the M8 engines, that can be easily fixed

From Trask,

TRASK PERFORMANCE CheckM8™ vented transmission top cover reduces excessive crankcase breather pressure issue on Harley-Davidson M8 engines.

• Available in Black or Chrome finish
  
• Reduce or even eliminate the oil coming from the head breathers on your M8.
  
• Machined from Billet Aluminum with a Boyesen one-way reed valve to vent the excessive crankcase pressure.
  

 

[Koolbreeze]

If you look inside the top of the transmission you will see the oil return passage, there is a return and a vent passage. By using the aftermarket kits you can vent the crankcase into the proper passage in the tranny to relieve the excess crankcase pressures that cause the oil to pump like mad out the head breather bolts= sharply higher oil usage

Watch this video it shows the inside of the tranny

https://shop.traskperformance.com/products/check-m8-vented-trans-top-cover

Jack, thanks that explains it, did not know there was a cavity there that moved air from the crankcase to the oil tank. Much appreciated.

 

[windsurfed]

Very eye-opening

Boy, I got quite an education just in that little bit right there. You guys are sharp in your knowledge.

 

[Zammy]

Another couple of 400 mile runs and oil usage checked and documented by dealer, about 800 miles and a little over a quart of use. The bike is in the shop for a series of tests, compression, leakdown and a scope, hope to know more first part of next week. Lol, can't really ride right now anyway, it just turned to our semi-annual love bug season. It's just not worth a 3 hour ride and take another 3 hours to clean the bike.