Triking My Ultra

[Greydog]

Hey Greydog, This is sooooo exciting! As Ben is also my trike builder, and a great HD dealer, I'm extra excited for you! He will do a wonderful job for you. Let me know when the day is that you will pick it up. We'll ride down and meet you and celebrate your first ride with you :yay: :wtg: :beerchug:

Thanx Nana.....and everyone else!!! I'm pretty excited myself now that I finally decided to do it!! Prolly have to put about 20,000 miles on it just sitting in the garage makin' motorcycle sounds this winter!!! Where are you in Ohio Nana?? I graduated from High School in Gallipolis....in 1962. Stayed in the Navy for 22 years and worked in Illinois for another ten years before moving to WV but still know a few folks across the river. Went to school with Bobby Cox who owns Riverfront Honda...I've bought three bikes from him over the years. BTW....I have another question. What loss in gas mileage should I expect after the kit installation. I'm currently getting 39 to 41 MPG average.

 

[ben721364]

I'm really considering having a Champion Kit installed on my '08 Ultra. I've done a lot of research on the web trying to get all my ducks in a row before I pull the trigger. Is it worth the extra money to boost the engine to 103CI to compensate for the extra weight? I already have Rinehart True Duals, Ness Big Sucker A/C and the SERT installed and tuned. I was going to have the reverse option installed as well as the EZ Steer but am having second thoughts about the reverse as I'm pretty tall and should be able to back it up if the situation arises. I have no reason to trike the bike other than.....I just want a trike. Attached is a photo of the bike I want to convert.

You probably do not need reverse if you don't part downhill where you have to back up to get out; especially if you also forgo the running boards (recommended). I have nothing to offer with respect to HP and torque of the H-D. My experience is with Hondas and BMWs. They both have plenty grunt for the trike kit and a trailer.

I too went triking for the fun of it and found that it makes long distance touring a real treat.

 

[Greydog]

You probably do not need reverse if you don't part downhill where you have to back up to get out; especially if you also forgo the running boards (recommended). I have nothing to offer with respect to HP and torque of the H-D. My experience is with Hondas and BMWs. They both have plenty grunt for the trike kit and a trailer.

I too went triking for the fun of it and found that it makes long distance touring a real treat.

I opted to have the reverse installed Ben. I think I'll have this bike for a loooong time so I'll probably wear out before it does!! I'm not worried about performance in the sense that I need a lot of speed and power. Just want a stable reliable ride that that will respond "as required" around town and in interstate driving conditions. Everything I've read on here suggests that I'll not be disappointed!!

 

[ben721364]

I quite agree that reverse is a nice feature to have. I got the idea that the OP was interested in saving some money and being tall, he probably will not 'need' it, especially if he doesn't install running boards.

I seldom used reverse when I had the trike without running boards. With running boards on my present trike, I use it a lot more often. That said, I noted that reverse is standard on touring BMWs and Hondas. If he is installing the trike kit on another brand, it is an expensive accessory.

I opted to have the reverse installed Ben. I think I'll have this bike for a loooong time so I'll probably wear out before it does!! I'm not worried about performance in the sense that I need a lot of speed and power. Just want a stable reliable ride that that will respond "as required" around town and in interstate driving conditions. Everything I've read on here suggests that I'll not be disappointed!!

 

[Gorilla]

greydog, with my Champion conversion I get 32 to 36 MPG. I got 38 to 42 before the conversion. I have gotten as low as 30 MPG if I am doing 70+ on the x-way. The 6th gear does not seem to help the MPG even at xway speeds.

 

[BlueTrinity]

I don't want to be accused of flaming, but it's getting a bit over the top, criticizing what people have added to their trike, because we think they don't "need" it, because its an "expensive accessory", or because another manufacturer "did it better".

The things we add -or don't add - are based on our personal taste, desires and financial status.

If I were to eliminate everthing I have, based on the "need" or "too expensive" criteria, probably the very first thing on that list would be the trike itself.

I personally think Greydog has made excellent choices; not because it is what I have or I would have done, but because he is doing what is right for him after examining all the options.

 

[ben721364]

Pardon me please. Let's review and see if you think I was critical of choices that someone made.

The OP originally posted, "I'm really considering having a Champion Kit installed on my '08 Ultra. I've done a lot of research on the web trying to get all my ducks in a row before I pull the trigger. Is it worth the extra money to boost the engine to 103CI to compensate for the extra weight? I already have Rinehart True Duals, Ness Big Sucker A/C and the SERT installed and tuned. I was going to have the reverse option installed as well as the EZ Steer but am having second thoughts about the reverse as I'm pretty tall and should be able to back it up if the situation arises. I have no reason to trike the bike other than.....I just want a trike. Attached is a photo of the bike I want to convert. " Emphasis added.

I responded, "You probably do not need reverse if you don't park downhill where you have to back up to get out; especially if you also forgo the running boards (recommended). I have nothing to offer with respect to HP and torque of the H-D. My experience is with Hondas and BMWs. They both have plenty grunt for the trike kit and a trailer." Emphasis added.

I later responded to the thread as follows:

"I too went triking for the fun of it and found that it makes long distance touring a real treat.

I quite agree that reverse is a nice feature to have. I got the idea that the OP was interested in saving some money and being tall, he probably will not 'need' it, especially if he doesn't install running boards.

I seldom used reverse when I had the trike without running boards. With running boards on my present trike, I use it a lot more often. That said, I noted that reverse is standard on touring BMWs and Hondas. If he is installing the trike kit on another brand, it is an expensive accessory."

I hope this helps. I do believe that it is clear that I was offering the benefit of personal experience, as requested.

I don't want to be accused of flaming, but it's getting a bit over the top, criticizing what people have added to their trike, because we think they don't "need" it, because its an "expensive accessory", or because another manufacturer "did it better".

The things we add -or don't add - are based on our personal taste, desires and financial status.

If I were to eliminate everthing I have, based on the "need" or "too expensive" criteria, probably the very first thing on that list would be the trike itself.

I personally think Greydog has made excellent choices; not because it is what I have or I would have done, but because he is doing what is right for him after examining all the options.

 

[Greydog]

Hey Guys....no harm no foul. I have taken everyone's advice in the spirit in which it was intended and don't feel as if I've been criticized or otherwise offended. You have all been VERY helpful and I appreciate it. After seeing JuJu's Dragon video I'm REALLY glad I decided to Trike my scooter!!!

 

[Gorilla]

TRIKE ON TRIKE ON you will love it.

 

[Greydog]

96", set of cams, SERT (all the dyno work done by me), SEAC, true duals, geared down at the primary and it's all the power I need. Will burn both back tires or pull the front end if I want, will pull hills at 80+ and will run over 100 if I push it but I really don't. Sixth gear is no problem with my gearing and I get an average of 35 MPG or so depending on where I get the gas.

I could do more to the motor but it would be a waste of time and cash. Reverse? Yup, I use mine every now and again when necessary but I mostly use Flintstone reverse.

The question is... it's not what we have but what do you really want? They are work in progress and there's plenty of time to change but it's tougher to install the reverse later or get your rake later than it is to do now. I say that because I set up my bike to be converted later.

Not trying to tell you what to do or be smart, but a plan is worth it's weight.

Can't wait to see your conversion before, during and after pics.

Oh, and don't forget to pick up our take offs. Ebay got me about 1500 bucks back but I got a grand for my bags which may have been an ebay record. That was like getting the rake or reverse free.


Wiz

Which cams did you go with?? I've been considering the SE-255 as they seem to provide better performance across the whole Torque/Horsepower band. I'm also interested in knowing what specific changes you made to the primary gearing. I think, after doing a lot more research, that those two modifications will give me the best "bang for the bucks"!!

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Which cams did you go with?? I've been considering the SE-255 as they seem to provide better performance across the whole Torque/Horsepower band. I'm also interested in knowing what specific changes you made to the primary gearing. I think, after doing a lot more research, that those two modifications will give me the best "bang for the bucks"!!

My preference in cams were the Andrews 26H. You will find the power range between 1800 and 4300 RPM's. That is where you normally use/need your trike power. At 3000 RPM's the motor runs like a sewing machine and really responds to any commands. Cams are a personal preference but in my experience the 255's are more hype than pull but again, that is just my opinion.

Now.. asking anyone if they know the answer to this... did HD change the 255 overlap after 2007 to become more smog efficient? I know the pre 2007 or 88 ci motor 255 cams were based on high performance in the mid to high RPM range. If they did change them I would go with an aftermarket but that is just me.

The best person to ask for the primary gearing down would be bdn56 as we just did this cam change and dyno to his trike. He also installed the compensator sprocket kit to reduce his gear ratio. I changed the front belt sprocket and had to install a device to adjust my speedometer as well and had to go to a smaller belt. With the compensator gear change you don't need to do any of that. He will be back from Thunder Beach in a few days.

As far as "bang for the buck" you are right on track but you will need a good fuel management system tuned by a good tuner. I know you have pipes and a SERT. The tune is only as good as the tuner. I would suggest a non HD dealer such as an independant tune guy as he can do more with your SERT than HD will allow. Do all of your motor work first, get it tuned then trike it. The SERT map should not change. If you trike it first then finding a dyno for a trike will be tough.

 

[Greydog]

Thanx for the reply. I called Ben, my HD dealer, and asked about the 255 cams and they are not really "street legal" as far as EPA regulations. I've decided to go with the 103" Stage II kit which includes the 255 cams and will be taking the bike over next week to get the work done before the Trike Kit arrives. He said he will down load the "canned" map for the kit and then tweak it on the dyno. I really appreciate all the help from you folks.....I'm gettin' as excited as a kid at Christmas waiting for everything to get started and get done!!!

 

[Dwight]

Greydog,
I did the 103 on my 07 Ultra before I triked it. It was HD installed and right out of the catalog. I have the 255's, never really liked the way it ran. By far the best thing I did was install a 30 tooth (non)compensating engine sprocket. It makes 6th gear a usable choice, no clutch slipping, no pinging, runs like a hot rod!
My T-glide is 103 from the factory, they did address the gearing problem but it still isn't right. 6th gear still isn't usable unless you want to run 75mph. Gas mileage is better if you use 5th even up around 70 mph. If I was going to keep it I'd spend some time looking for better gearing.
By the way we spent 2 years making the decision to trike, concerned about the loss of the 2 wheel ride. Since that first trike, 04 Honda/Hannigan, we've ridden about 70 thousand miles! You might say we both enjoy them! The new Spyder RT-S has caught our eye and I think we will have one of them ordered within the next few weeks.

Dwight

 

[ben721364]

Greydog,
I did the 103 on my 07 Ultra before I triked it. It was HD installed and right out of the catalog. I have the 255's, never really liked the way it ran. By far the best thing I did was install a 30 tooth (non)compensating engine sprocket. It makes 6th gear a usable choice, no clutch slipping, no pinging, runs like a hot rod!
My T-glide is 103 from the factory, they did address the gearing problem but it still isn't right. 6th gear still isn't usable unless you want to run 75mph. Gas mileage is better if you use 5th even up around 70 mph. If I was going to keep it I'd spend some time looking for better gearing.
By the way we spent 2 years making the decision to trike, concerned about the loss of the 2 wheel ride. Since that first trike, 04 Honda/Hannigan, we've ridden about 70 thousand miles! You might say we both enjoy them! The new Spyder RT-S has caught our eye and I think we will have one of them ordered within the next few weeks.

Dwight

How much torque and HP do H-Ds come with from the factory? Is it necessary to modify the powertrain when the weight of a trike kit is added?

 

[Mr.Wizard]

How much torque and HP do H-Ds come with from the factory? Is it necessary to modify the powertrain when the weight of a trike kit is added?

Answer, very little but enough and less than they advertise. HD advertises at the crank not at the wheel where you could lose up to 20% or more of the advertised specs.

Ben, it depends on the rider. If you are OK with some heat or just tooling around or not a fan of hwy riding for miles on end you should be just fine when adding a trike kit. Then again you have the other end of the spectrum riders who demand more. It's just a matter of taste and personal preference if you monkey with your power train but a tinkerer will every time.

 

[Greydog]

I've attached a "generic" Dyno chart from the Harley catalog that gives a fair indication of the difference between a stock 96" and the 103" stage II engine....but..as the Ad says....my results may vary!! I don't know a lot about internal combustion engines but it looks as if the increased torque and horsepower falls within the RPM range where it's good for street use.

 

[ben721364]

I've attached a "generic" Dyno chart from the Harley catalog that gives a fair indication of the difference between a stock 96" and the 103" stage II engine....but..as the Ad says....my results may vary!! I don't know a lot about internal combustion engines but it looks as if the increased torque and horsepower falls within the RPM range where it's good for street use.

Do such engine modifications have any detrimental effect on longevity?

 

[Greydog]

Do such engine modifications have any detrimental effect on longevity?

I sure hope not!! This kit is actually a pretty mild modification and as far as I can tell does nothing more than bring the 96" engine up to the same displacement as the Tri-Glide. The big difference from the Tri-Glide is the addition of the cam and SERT tuning. I would hope that with proper maintenance and reasonable riding habits it will last as long as the original.

 

[msocko3]

I sure hope not!! This kit is actually a pretty mild modification and as far as I can tell does nothing more than bring the 96" engine up to the same displacement as the Tri-Glide. The big difference from the Tri-Glide is the addition of the cam and SERT tuning. I would hope that with proper maintenance and reasonable riding habits it will last as long as the original.

Your correct that its a mild modification. I've been looking at the 255 cams for my 2010 Triglide and do have some concerns with them in such a heavy machine. When the 255's are put in a 103" engine the CCP hits 200+ which can be a problem out west where fuel quality and octane isn't the same as the eastern part of the US. I ride both where I live in Ohio and out west so I'm interested in how people with a 103 and 255 cams are making out with a Trike or even a Side Car rig and fuel like they have in CA.

 

[Tango]

I've attached a "generic" Dyno chart from the Harley catalog that gives a fair indication of the difference between a stock 96" and the 103" stage II engine....but..as the Ad says....my results may vary!! I don't know a lot about internal combustion engines but it looks as if the increased torque and horsepower falls within the RPM range where it's good for street use.

That's a nice jump in HP and Torque! Tom :2cents:

 

[Greydog]

Quick Update: <br />
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I took my bike in yesterday to get the engine work done. The Dealer told me the Champion kit will arrive sooner than expected and he might get started on the Trike as soon as he finishes the 103" upgrade. Should have it back before the end of the month!! Looks like the next time I ride my scooter it will be on three wheels!!! :yes:

 

[Gorilla]

OH BOY another birth is in the works. PICTURES GREYDOG WE WANT PICTURES

 

[Nana]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Greydog</strong>
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<div class="message">Quick Update: <br />
<br />
I took my bike in yesterday to get the engine work done. The Dealer told me the Champion kit will arrive sooner than expected and he might get started on the Trike as soon as he finishes the 103" upgrade. Should have it back before the end of the month!! Looks like the next time I ride my scooter it will be on three wheels!!! :yes:</div>

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</div>Woo Hoo! Ben is a great guy and a great trike-builder, Greydog! Your new baby will be gorgeous <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" />. But watch out for those gals in the front--when they see how beautiful it is, they try to buy your trike out from under you before you can get away. LOL.

 

[bdn56]

Greydog, you may need to install some Wheely Bars on that thing

 

[Greydog]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>bdn56</strong>
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<div class="message">Greydog, you may need to install some <b>Wheely Bars </b>on that thing<img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" /></div>

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</div>Nah....mine will be a sissy engine compared to the Dealers trike. Ben has a 130" engine in his!!! I'm really getting excited about this.....and the hard part...the waiting.... begins!!!

 

[ben721364]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Greydog</strong>
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<div class="message">Nah....mine will be a sissy engine compared to the Dealers trike. Ben has a 130" engine in his!!! I'm really getting excited about this.....and the hard part...the waiting.... begins!!!</div>

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</div>How much <b>torque</b> and <b>HP</b> will yours and the "130" engine produce?

 

[Greydog]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>ben721364</strong>
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<div class="message">How much <b>torque</b> and <b>HP</b> will yours and the "130" engine produce?</div>

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</div>Don't know about the 130". That's way too much for me anyway!! All I can tell you at this point about the 103" is refer to the "generic" Dyno chart I posted previously. My goal is to try and retain, in the Trike, similar performance characteristics as the stock two wheeler. I've read so many forums and magazine articles, trying to get educated on the subject, that my head is spinning. Seems as if everyone has differing opinions as to what's "best" that it's hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Tried to make an informed decision but when all is said and done, if I don't like it no one will ever know....'cause I'll become a liar!!! :yes: (Just kidding about the liar part)!!

 

[Greydog]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Nana</strong>
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<div class="message">Woo Hoo! Ben is a great guy and a great trike-builder, Greydog! Your new baby will be gorgeous <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" />. But watch out for those gals in the front--when they see how beautiful it is, they try to buy your trike out from under you before you can get away. LOL.</div>

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</div>Yep, Ben is a great guy and knows his stuff!! I have a lot of fun with the gals out front when I'm over there. I tease them a lot 'cause my hair is longer than theirs....they tell me, "Yeah, but yours is grey"!!! I told them I'd let it go back to it's natural color but I don't want to embarass them!!! <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" />

 

[BinIdaho]

Congrats Greydog...you will love the trike and wish you had done it sooner. Since I'm physically/mentally challenged love the '09 Tri-Glide. No upgrades except the V&H slip-ons.....I blip, blip down the Interstates!!!

Barbara