Stage 1 Screaming Eagle

[AwanaRide]

Will this really make my 2014Tri glide get better performance / What will it do to my gas mileage?

 

[rhino 2]

Will this really make my 2014Tri glide get better performance / What will it do to my gas mileage?

I did the stage 1 on my 11T/G.. And it did improved the performance by upping the red line to 64 hundred RPM's. After that I added true duels [catless] Which also helped.. But the biggest gain right off the bat' was the stage 1..
As far as gas mileage. I get 33/34 in town' And 38/40 on the road..

 

[msocko3]

Will this really make my 2014Tri glide get better performance / What will it do to my gas mileage?

I'm not sure if there is much of an increase to be had on a 2014 and later with stock exhaust and just a dealer download. When HD released the Rushmore's in 2014 they made changes to the air box to increase its flow. The stock air clearer on the 14 and later is improved over the 13 and earlier twin cams. One of the biggest bangs for a buck is a good tune, which will make it run smoother and cooler. Here is a dyno sheet showing what just a good tune will do with no air cleaner or exhaust changes. All tuning in these charts has been done with the TTS.



For comparison here is a sheet showing air cleaner and exhaust changes.



These dyno sheets come from Harley Davidson of Salt Lake City http://www.utahharleytech.com/?cat=12

One thing I will say about dyno charts, they are not the end all be all when it comes to comparing parts. You have to take them with a grain of salt, a dyno can be manipulated to read way more power and torque than actually produced. This chart is also from the Salt Lake City Harley, it shows how you can make a stock 2014 look like a world beater. They manipulated the dyno settings to make it look like they produced way more power than it actually produced. If it looks to good to be true, more often than not it was fiddled to look good. When I'm looking at performance gains from a specific part, I try and find independent dyno charts from more than one source if possible.

 

[dirtdobber]

9 lbs of tq with 5 hp increase is a pretty good increase for a trike.
A stage one will have good benefits.

Personally speaking I would consider the baker 7 speed transmission. This gives you a wider range for improved performance.
I do like baker transmission so I may be basis.

 

[msocko3]

9 lbs of tq with 5 hp increase is a pretty good increase for a trike.
A stage one will have good benefits.

Personally speaking I would consider the baker 7 speed transmission. This gives you a wider range for improved performance.
I do like baker transmission so I may be basis.

Your right it is a nice little increase, but you need to also do the exhaust and tune it properly to obtain those results. On a trike the hp and torque readings will be lower due to the trike having more rotating mass than a 2 wheel motorcycle.

The DD7 would be a decent upgrade on a 2009 - 2010 Triglide since they come with a 32 tooth transmission sprocket. On the 2011 and later it isn't needed quite as much since they went to the 30 tooth sprocket. For the $2,500 - $3,000 cost of the transmission plus installation cost if your not going to DIY, a good low end torque cam and a tune will more than fill the bill for less money.

 

[Phu Cat]

Msocko, When you say a good tune will make a trike run cooler, are you talking about the combustion temperature or what I feel on the outside of the engine?

I'll be taking my 2012 Triglide to a dyno for trikes and will remove the catalytic perverter (new head pipes) and remap the ECM. How much external heat discomfort can I hope to lose?

Phu Cat

 

[rhino 2]

I can't answer for anyone but my self.. But learning from my drag racing days I only change one thing at a time, Try it out then if it works i go on to the next improvement...If it doesn't i 86 it.. Do too much at once and you might be pulling your hair out trying to figure out where you went wrong..

First I did the Stage 1, Just that cooled the engine by enriching the mixture.. With a noticeable increase in power.. Then I went with True duels cat less W/stock muffles, That got rid of the right foot heat' But with out a noticeable increase in power... Then I changed out the stock muffles for slip-ons with 175 baffles.. That got me a major loss of bottom end power with a large increase of noise.. So I then added Thunder Torques... Got the bottom end back+ and got rid of the noise... Big twins need the right amount of back pressure, Open the pipes too much and you might think all that noise is power 'But it ain't...

 

[msocko3]

Msocko, When you say a good tune will make a trike run cooler, are you talking about the combustion temperature or what I feel on the outside of the engine?

I'll be taking my 2012 Triglide to a dyno for trikes and will remove the catalytic perverter (new head pipes) and remap the ECM. How much external heat discomfort can I hope to lose?

Phu Cat

Yes, the combustion temp will be lower which will make the exhaust temp lower. When I ditched the cat and tuned the 2010 I used to have, I got rid of that searing pain you get on the right leg.

 

[msocko3]

I can't answer for anyone but my self.. But learning from my drag racing days I only change one thing at a time, Try it out then if it works i go on to the next improvement...If it doesn't i 86 it.. Do too much at once and you might be pulling your hair out trying to figure out where you went wrong..

First I did the Stage 1, Just that cooled the engine by enriching the mixture.. With a noticeable increase in power.. Then I went with True duels cat less W/stock muffles, That got rid of the right foot heat' But with out a noticeable increase in power... Then I changed out the stock muffles for slip-ons with 175 baffles.. That got me a major loss of bottom end power with a large increase of noise.. So I then added Thunder Torques... Got the bottom end back+ and got rid of the noise... Big twins need the right amount of back pressure, Open the pipes too much and you might think all that noise is power 'But it ain't...

The stage 1 download only adds a slight amount of fuel in the open loop areas close to wide open throttle, it also bumps the rev limiter up to 6,200 rpm. The closed loop and cruising range remains untouched, Stage 1 is still very lean. Your loss in power you felt was the torque being shifted to the right from the duals, a good 2.1.2 head pipe and a muffler with a 1.75 baffle will make nice low end torque without a lot of racket.

The larger the baffle the higher it will shift the torque in the RPM range thus making it feel like you lost power. The power is there, just not in the area you ride in.

FWIW you could have rolled your own lollipops for the exhaust, guys have been doing it for years to help drag pipes make some bottom end on the street.

 

[rhino 2]

Like I say, I can only talk about my ride... 64 hundred is the red line, And at around 22 hundred it gets into the power band... all way to the red line.. Though I rarely push it over 6 grand...

 

[msocko3]

Like I say, I can only talk about my ride... 64 hundred is the red line, And at around 22 hundred it gets into the power band... all way to the red line.. Though I rarely push it over 6 grand...

Did you do your Stage 1 with a tuner? The Harley stage 1 dealer download sets the rev limiter at 6,200 rpm. When you hit the rev limiter it cuts spark and fuel to keep it from going above, its kind of like you just turned it off. I have the limiter on the 120 in my 06 Ultra set at 6,400 using the TTS, I've hit it a several times, the bike just quits pulling like you turned it off until you let off the throttle and the rpm's drop. If your seeing 6,400 rpm with just a dealer download, your tach is a little off.

You feeling the torque start around 2,200 rpm is about where a stage 1 stock cam bike starts making some torque, the peak should be in the 3,500 rpm range which between 3,000 and 3,500 rpm is the sweet spot.

 

[rhino 2]

Did you do your Stage 1 with a tuner? The Harley stage 1 dealer download sets the rev limiter at 6,200 rpm. When you hit the rev limiter it cuts spark and fuel to keep it from going above, its kind of like you just turned it off. I have the limiter on the 120 in my 06 Ultra set at 6,400 using the TTS, I've hit it a several times, the bike just quits pulling like you turned it off until you let off the throttle and the rpm's drop. If your seeing 6,400 rpm with just a dealer download, your tach is a little off.

You feeling the torque start around 2,200 rpm is about where a stage 1 stock cam bike starts making some torque, the peak should be in the 3,500 rpm range which between 3,000 and 3,500 rpm is the sweet spot.

Nope, No tuner... Maybe the tack is off :Shrug: But What's a few hundred revs among friends...ThumbUp

 

[msocko3]

Nope, No tuner... Maybe the tack is off :Shrug: But What's a few hundred revs among friends...ThumbUp

I hear that, at the end of the day all that counts is it performs to your expectations.

 

[Phu Cat]

Msocko, I've heard this:"First I did the Stage 1, Just that cooled the engine by enriching the mixture" more times than I can remember but still don't understand it. How does a fire burn cooler by adding more fuel to it? I KNOW you are right but never have understood the science behind it. Do you get it???

I completely agree with you about running open pipes and losing low end power. The reason for that is because some of the fresh fuel and air coming into the combustion chamber escapes out the exhaust valve because it's held open for such a long time at lower RPMs and no back presssure. Put the back pressure back in place and more of the fuel and fresh air is kept in the combustion chamber. Hello low end torque.

I'm well past having to have open pipes as probably are most guys that have been riding a good while. I think it's the young pups that still need to get someone to look at them SOMEhow that need the drags. As for "LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES", riding skill, being unimpaired, and trained do more than all the loud pipes there are for my riding safety.

PC

 

[msocko3]

Msocko, I've heard this:"First I did the Stage 1, Just that cooled the engine by enriching the mixture" more times than I can remember but still don't understand it. How does a fire burn cooler by adding more fuel to it? I KNOW you are right but never have understood the science behind it. Do you get it???

I completely agree with you about running open pipes and losing low end power. The reason for that is because some of the fresh fuel and air coming into the combustion chamber escapes out the exhaust valve because it's held open for such a long time at lower RPMs and no back presssure. Put the back pressure back in place and more of the fuel and fresh air is kept in the combustion chamber. Hello low end torque.

I'm well past having to have open pipes as probably are most guys that have been riding a good while. I think it's the young pups that still need to get someone to look at them SOMEhow that need the drags. As for "LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES", riding skill, being unimpaired, and trained do more than all the loud pipes there are for my riding safety.

PC

One thing I suck at is thermodynamics, I'd butcher any kind of technical explanation. I only know a leaner mixture will produce a hotter running cylinder as tested with a heat gun and exhaust gas temperature and a richer mixture will produce a cooler cylinder and exhaust gas temperature.

Now you do come to a point where too rich can happen, the excess fuel will wash down the cylinder walls causing premature ware, if you smell fuel in your oil this is happening.

Exhaust is all based on sound waves, by changing how the sound waves move in the exhaust you can change where the torque and HP are produced. I think exhaust can be one of the more complext items in the optimization of an engine packages performance. One reason folks will go with a tuneable disc type muffler such as a Supertrapp, by adding or removing disc you can tune the exhaust length thus modifying how the sound waves move in the exhaust which means you can place your torque right where you want it. One of the side benefits of the disc type mufflers is they are quieter.

Of course if you don't have a tuneable disc muffler, you only have baffle size, baffle design, or placing some other sort of restriction in the muffler to modify how the sound waves move through the exhaust system when just replacing mufflers. This is why placing a lollipop at the outlet of the muffler can help shift the torque to the left. If you get into complete exhaust systems it gets even more interesting. With a exhaust header you can use length, type of bends and stepping to tune how the sound waves react.

One other thing exhaust can affect is cylinder heat, to much back pressure and you don't scavenge enough of the exiting mixture which leads to a hotter running cylinder.

Just had another thought I want to include. When it comes to performance part design, it isn't a one size fits all.

What may have been optimum with one engine, isn't always going to produce the exact same results with another. There are variances in mass produced engine parts that come into play. Some of them are cylinder head combustion chamber size, intake and exhaust port volume, how far either in the hole or protruding in the cylinder a piston is. On a fuel injected engine you get variances in output from one injector to another.

 

[desertclassic]

I can only speak from my experience. I felt my 14 tri did not have as much pep as I expected. Could be I came from an 07 ultra that had be jumped with a 103 kit. At the 1K service, I did a stage 1 upgrade. Rinehart 4" ovals slipons, SE high flow air and stage 1 dealer download. I can say I am happy, not sure about the fuel, and why should I worry about that. If fuel was a factor, I would not have made the changes. The tri has pep and I don't feel like I am lugging around. I am happy and if I need a little extra throttle to get out of the way, it is there. Jim

 

[AwanaRide]

Thanks for the advice,

I had the Stage 1 installed & Rush 4" slipsons, & Download & highflow air, wonder if i should replace existing exhaust to headers

 

[rhino 2]

I had the Stage 1 installed & Rush 4" slipsons, & Download & highflow air, wonder if i should replace existing exhaust to headers

Replace the stock exhaust to..True duels cat-less.... Just adding' when i put on rush slip-ons 175's i lost bottom end power big time..
And for me they made a lot of noise.. Till i put the thunder toques on..
Ive said this before maybe some dealers [Like mine] Can do a better job setting up the Stage 1 and recalibrating the ECM. Than others....:Shrug: