Roadsmith Braking

[Bohdan]

Greetings Gents,
Has anybody have the opinion that pressing down on the rear brake on Roadsmith trikes takes a lot of pressure? My wife's trike, a 2013, seems to be to that degree. I have never owned or trike or rode any other's. So I don't know. I think my wife may be thinking they should be power brakes. Mighty obliged.

 

[rmrc51]

Many of us have complained about the lack of firm braking with the rear brakes. They will never be as effective as power brakes!

Make sure that the brake lines have been properly and fully bled. Have you brake pedal adjusted as high as possible to give the maximum throw to enable increased pressure. Then I would also suggest that you take the trike to an empty parking lot and do a few hard stops with the rear brakes to ensure that the brake pads are conforming fully to the rotors for maximum contact. This should definitely help. Some owners have gone as far as getting performance rotors and brake pads.

 

[SMSgt]

The RS owners manual tells you to really get on the brakes at first then them will seat in. Just don't be afraid to stand on the brakes and take rmrc51 advice. Mine stops just fine now.

 

[mhgoldwing]

Two things in addition to the above posts:

1. Install pedal "cover" which will broaden surface of pedal and make it much easier to apply more force.

2. RS has some high performance "yellowstuff" brake pads by EBC in stock. Friend and I have both installed these and believe performance improved by 30%. They tend to grab and stop really fast at first but smooth out after a 1,000 miles or so. Easy swap out and believe they are well worth the money.

 

[Bohdan]

Thanks for the tips guys. I took the wife's trike and did a few emergency stops. It is a brand new trike with 1700 clicks on it now. I do know that RS does move the brake pedal up one notch for this. Do you think it may be possible that there is air in the system? They don't really feel spongy though.

 

[dogman513]

Greetings Gents,
Has anybody have the opinion that pressing down on the rear brake on Roadsmith trikes takes a lot of pressure? My wife's trike, a 2013, seems to be to that degree. I have never owned or trike or rode any other's. So I don't know. I think my wife may be thinking they should be power brakes. Mighty obliged.

Just as if on 2 wheels, 70% of braking is applied to front brake

 

[Blueribbon]

I don't think this is unique to RS. I think it would be any trike, since they all use a car rear end.

I just talked to Dough (the half owner) of RS and he said their testing of the "yellow stuff brake pads" showed a significant improvement.

So, $62 (with shipping) a set (for both wheels) is on it's way to me. Dough said they were simple to install, and total time for both wheels shold only be 1/2 hour labor.

So, hopefully next Saturday, I'll put the trike in the shop.

 

[npike1236]

I don't think this is unique to RS. I think it would be any trike, since they all use a car rear end.

I just talked to Dough (the half owner) of RS and he said their testing showed a significant improvement.

So, $62 (with shipping) a set (for both wheels) is on it's way to me. Dough said they were simple to install, and total time for both wheels shold only be 1/2 hour labor.

So, hopefully next Saturday, I'll put the trike in the shop.

I happen to own a 2012 Roadsmith and a 2012 CSC braking on the CSC is like having power brakes compared to the Roadsmith.

and yes I have complained to my Dealer but he has no answer for the problem but has admitted that others have complained.

Hope Doug's $62.00 fix works. Keep us posted!

 

[Bohdan]

yes, please do tell us about these new pads. Thanks

 

[Blueribbon]

"Soft" yellow rear brake pads came in Friday. Need it about 30 degrees warmer before I attempt to put them on. Still can''t take it to the shop in 16 to 25 degree weather.<br />
<br />
When I get them on, I'll be sure to post here.

 

[mhgoldwing]

Be sure to follow the break-in procedure. Think I found it on the EBC sight. If memory serves me correctly, and that's not a given, do repeated hard slow downs from 60 mph to 20 mph. DO NOT COME TO STOP! After last slow down, let brakes cool down before stopping.

It will take a couple hundred or so miles before they don't feel "grabby" any longer and then stops will smooth and much improved.

 

[bobcree]

I have same braking problem with my 2008 Goldwing Roadsmith. I have written to Roadsmith three different times but have never received a reply. I am interested in the new pads that might increase the rear braking quality. Is Roadsmith still in business?

 

[Solidbob]

Installed the New EBC pads last weekend so not that many miles yet but a great improvement. Here is what I found when I removed the Original pads and I'll post some photos... took all of 30 minutes to do. Step one was getting it on the lift and stable and removing the wheels and tires.

Step two was staring at the new pads and the calipers to see what to remove (took longer than changing pads). Step three - there are two pins that the pads slide & move on, those two pins are held in place by two very small clips between the caliper and the pads on the inside, needle nose removing the clips (don't loose them, hard to find VW parts), once the clips are out take a screwdriver the same size or smaller and push the pins back till you can pull them out to the inside.

Step four take the spring retainer, the pads and the shims out noticing how the retainer is positioned. Here's another picture of how the shims ride on the pads, the shims are not long enough to be fully pressed by the brake piston, they only catch half of the piston (maybe caused a lack of full pressure against the pad). You will notice the EBC pads have the shim fixed to the lower portion of the pad and in line with the full piston. Prior to reassembly lightly scuff the brake rotor front and back to remove any rust from setting up and giving the pads something new to bite against.

Step five is reassembly, you will need a piston compressor or a small square piece of wood to pry against with a long screwdriver to move the pistons back, (don't pinch the piston boot or you get more work) to allow the new pads to be installed / Check your brake fluid reservoir that it is not totally full prior to doing this, if its to full you may need to remove a little fluid to have room for the fluid to flow back to the master cylinder / remember you have (2) side to do.

Once you have the pistons pushed back reassemble (No Grease of any kind) in the order you removed and make sure the rotors only lightly drag the pads / No Pedal Pressure yet!! / your done with that one so now do the other side same as this one. Once both sides are installed pump the rear pedal to seat the pads and check for the sight drag of the pads on the rotors and your done.. sounds involved but really doesn't take that long.

Here are the photos: the Roadsmith Caliper, close up showing assembly and he (2) clips in the pins, ETC. They do work better already and I have a few more miles to go breaking them in totally. I think the shim not centered was the main problem it didn't matter when it was a VW as it had more pedal pressure. Contact Taylor at Roadsmith and ask for a set of #DP4105R EBC pads ... Hope this helps .. ThumbUp

 

[saab9k]

I have same braking problem with my 2008 Goldwing Roadsmith. I have written to Roadsmith three different times but have never received a reply. I am interested in the new pads that might increase the rear braking quality. Is Roadsmith still in business?

Hope so, waiting on parts from them.
been a few weeks.

 

[Bohdan]

yeah, I believe there is only one more original franchise store left of Roadsmith. It is in Daytona Beach. The rest are retailers or distributors.

Thanks for the brake info. Seems pretty simple to do. I guess that you said it is a great improvement and requires less stopping power. Sorta of bites that we have a brand new trike and need to change the brakes to make the wife happy.

 

[scribe5]

Your setup looks just like my 2005 Champion trike. Calipers looks the same, pads, at least the top looks the same and from what I've been told, it's from a kit that was used to convert drum brakes to disc brakes on a 1976 Super Beetle. My rotor has 4 lugs instead of 5 and there's no castle nut in the middle. That's probably because we have different differentials and axles--mine is supposedly from a Toyota. I got a set of EBC brake pads from J.C. Whitney...it has a red brake-in coating...but the description didn't indicate whether it was yellow stuff or not. I'm in the middle of some other maintenance up front, but can't wait to give the pads a try. I hate the weak stopping power from the back. Thanks for posting!

 

[Solidbob]

scribe5,
Yes the caliper is the same / Roadsmith HT1800 kits use 8 - Bolt Ford 2:93 - 1 ratio Cut Down Rear End / VW - Porsche CV Half Shafts & Joints / also uses the 11" Rotors 5-Bolt w - Dual Piston VW - Porsche Calipers / any of these pads should work (Bendix #DB15, Federated #D30A or the now used EBC #DP-4105R YellowStuff pads - the EBC Pads that are shipped by Roadsmith look like standard pads with a RED Breakin coating on them and say Roadmith on the back were the shim is attached. If you get EBC #DP-4105R pads from the parts store they should be Yellow in color on the edges with the red Breakin coating on them and shim attached below the 2 holes.

 

[saab9k]

Buy the softest pad you can find. With black carbon, dirty wheels are the best for stopping.

Lifetime warranty, you will be buying new rotors instead of pads. + slow stopping.

 

[scribe5]

Thanks Solid Bob for the info on the EBC's. Champion uses and sells pads made by Pagid and are parts number D101P---Champion charges about $100 for a set -- You can get them much cheaper elsewhere. But I'm going to try my EBC's and if they don't grip better than the stock, I'm going with your EBC yellows. I looked closely at the EBC box and they are EBC Ultimax, D30. I think they go by the generic name "black stuff." The box also says they fit Alfa Romeo Spider and Porsche 911 (64 thru 70).

 

[lgjhn]

I had my Roadsmith conversion done last November on an 06 Wing. The rear braking was the first thing I noticed and checked to make sure there was no air in the lines. It was fine. I, then, added the adapter plate to the pedal to allow a little more force/pressure, but it was still always a little "soft". Based on this thread, I just ordered some EBC "Yellow Stuff" pads for it. A while back, I used the EBC yellow pads on the wife's Accord, but I had to finally take them off and go to the "red stuff" due to the large amount of brake dust. She's a fanatic about keeping her car clean and was always complaining about too much brake dust on the wheels. The Yellows sure grabbed better than anything else, and we'll see how they do on this Roadsmith. Surely, it will be an improvement over what's on there now. We shall see.

 

[Solidbob]

I also added this Add On Brand brake pedal height extension: This chrome plated billet aluminum brake pedal has a pedal width of 4 ½ inches across and 1 15/16in deep. This makes plenty of room for your foot so it does not scrap against the engine. Easy to install and requires drilling one hole in the stock pedal.
Also works fine with Aqua Shields and gives your foot more area to fully mash that pedal. This helped also and will fit all 1800's!

 

[Veritas44]

Nice find Bob ThumbUp
Addresses Form, Fit, & Function well.

What those go for approx. ?

 

[scribe5]

I also added this Add On Brand brake pedal height extension: This chrome plated billet aluminum brake pedal has a pedal width of 4 ½ inches across and 1 15/16in deep. This makes plenty of room for your foot so it does not scrap against the engine. Easy to install and requires drilling one hole in the stock pedal.

Also works fine with Aqua Shields and gives your foot more area to fully mash that pedal. This helped also and will fit all 1800's!

That's a nice find Solidbob...I wonder if this would fit the Kuryakyn foot pedal? Also, I had been in contact with a company, Wilwood, that makes nice brake products, hoping to change out the rotor and calipers to something that is in the current century and not from the Age of Disco. Anyway, they wanted to know what the length of the brake pedal was and another measurement to determine the brake pedal ratio. My Kury pedal is about 8 3/4 long measured from the center of the pivot shaft to the center of the pedal, for a brake pedal ratio of 4 to 1.

The Wilwood tech said they would recommend at least a 5 to 1 ratio--to increase the leverage. So that's part of the problem. My trike didn't come with the stock brake pedal, but I assume it's the same length as the stock? So one of the problems appears to be that the brake pedal is too short for the braking system that Champion and Roadsmith put on their kits.

Also, according to Wilwood, the rear master cylinder is not matched well with the calpers. The master cylinder either needs a smaller piston, or the caliper piston volume needs to be bigger with either bigger pistons or more pistons per caliper. In the meantime that brake pedal add on would definitely help as well as grippier pads like the yellow stuff. In addition, does anyone know of a longer brake pedal? I haven't given up on finding better calipers and rotors that would work with the stock rear master cylinder. The problem I am having is finding a caliper bracket that would work with the current axle setup. I haven't found calipers that would work with the current bracket.

 

[Solidbob]

Already been down this road, A few answers. This ADD On Brand Extension #18393-545B will only fit the stock pedal (and their are none longer that are splined) You can find a Stock Pedal replacement on Ebay for $25 - 15.00 or less with free shipping. The Add-On pedal extension can be found at the right price at:

http://www.goldwingonline.com/products/Goldwing_GL1800_Brake_Pedal_Cover-764-49.html

for $65.95 plus shipping (that's what I paid at Wingstuff a couple of years ago) and maybe also on Ebay. Others have it for $89.99 LIST Price.

The rotors & calipers are also best left alone / I have tried Wilwood, Brembo, and a number of others and they all mount differently with various rotor Diameters - none mount and use this same size & style rotor. The Roadsmith kit also uses the internal portion on this rotor with very little machining as a parking brake (See Above Photo of brake arm) Just not worth the effort!!

The rear master cylinder is really harder to address due to location and pedal operation, without that being addressed by Mother Honda. So pick your poison to address and I picked PEDAL & PADS... Ready for some Football & warmer weather.

 

[scribe5]

The rotors & calipers are also best left alone / I have tried Wilwood, Brembo, and a number of others and they all mount differently with various rotor Diameters - none mount and use this same size & style rotor. The Roadsmith kit also uses the internal portion on this rotor with very little machining as a parking brake (See Above Photo of brake arm) Just not worth the effort!!

The rear master cylinder is really harder to address due to location and pedal operation, without that being addressed by Mother Honda. So pick your poison to address and I picked PEDAL & PADS... Ready for some Football & warmer weather. ....................


I think you are right...I will check out the stock pedal...the pedal extension and the yellow stuff pads...thanks for your info and effort..it will make for a safer ride ThumbUp

 

[scribe5]

Already been down this road, A few answers. This ADD On Brand Extension #18393-545B will only fit the stock pedal (and their are none longer that are splined) You can find a Stock Pedal replacement on Ebay for $25 - 15.00 or less with free shipping. The Add-On pedal extension can be found at the right price at:

http://www.goldwingonline.com/produc...er-764-49.html


Bob: I just found a stock pedal for $7...under $20 with shipping from ebay. Thanks again and enjoy the big game.

 

[Blueribbon]

Had my "yellow stuff" pads from RS installed Sat. AM Got in about 75 miles Sat. & 155 Sun. I'll give them one more day, before I stand down on them hard. Now, if W I N T E R would take a walk or even run out of here, I'd get more of a chance to get out.

 

[Solidbob]

From EBC Break-in Procedures: http://ebcbrakes.com/articles/how-to-bed-in-your-new-brakes-for-streeturban-driving-2/

Full Yellowsuff info: http://ebcbrakes.com/product/yellowstuff-street-and-track-pads/

If your pads had no instructions...epper:

 

[CSCguy]

I don't think this is unique to RS. I think it would be any trike, since they all use a car rear end.

That's a little offensive. Few Goldwings still use a car rear end nowadays. I hear CSC is even abandoning their solid axle 1500 this spring for IRS.

I happen to own a 2012 Roadsmith and a 2012 CSC braking on the CSC is like having power brakes compared to the Roadsmith.

CSC doesn't sell a trike that won't lock up the rear brakes, unless it's ABS which actually stops a hair slower.

 

[Veritas44]

That's a little offensive. Few Goldwings still use a car rear end nowadays. I hear CSC is even abandoning their solid axle 1500 this spring for IRS.

What's "Offensive" about that ???? :xzqxz:

CSC's Opposing A-Arm/H-Arm "IRS" designed suspension Trikes utilize a Proprietary "Gear Box" instead of a true Differential to transfer the Linear drive rotation to Lateral motion.
Champion's IRS Designs share the same Basics and Mechanics as CSC.
Motor Trike, Hannigan, & Roadsmith use a true Differential (for Shaft-Driven Bikes).
DFT has a Hybrid of the two which some call a "Chunk". Basically a Cylinder that contains "Spider-Gears" similar to the Internals of a true Differential.
Motor Trike, Hannigan, & Roadsmith utilize a similar basic Design as DFT for their Belt/Chain-driven Bike Conversions.

CSC doesn't sell a trike that won't lock up the rear brakes, unless it's ABS which actually stops a hair slower.

Not in limited or compromised Traction situations it doesn't. ABS (properly functioning of course) IS superior in those situations.
In "normal" situations,,, the debate still continues as to which stops better/faster. Fine line between Firm as it gets and Lock-Up Braking with non-ABS.