Questions about HD trike ground clearance

[jaxbobg]

I'm curious about the pipe clearance on the HD trikes. Was gassing up last week and a couple on a TriGlide were at the next pump. Talked to them briefly, where you from, where you going, just chit chat.

When they left the station there is a small incline (decline?) to street level and I heard the pipes dragging.

Got to wondering, are they built low in the rear for some reason? Was the weight of his passenger too much for the shocks? What happens when going over speed bumps? Were his air shocks not properly inflated?

I've owned 3 different trikes with 3 different conversions and never had this problem, but then I've never been on a Tri or Freewheeler.

Maybe Zook, FuzzyWuzHe, DTR 11G, flatfrog, rhino2, or one of the others have a good answer as to why HD designed the trike like this. Seems like you guys all install lift kits to correct the design problem. What's up with that?

 

[Springman2007]

I'm curious about the pipe clearance on the HD trikes. Was gassing up last week and a couple on a TriGlide were at the next pump. Talked to them briefly, where you from, where you going, just chit chat.

When they left the station there is a small incline (decline?) to street level and I heard the pipes dragging.

Got to wondering, are they built low in the rear for some reason? Was the weight of his passenger too much for the shocks? What happens when going over speed bumps? Were his air shocks not properly inflated?

I've owned 3 different trikes with 3 different conversions and never had this problem, but then I've never been on a Tri or Freewheeler.

Maybe Zook, FuzzyWuzHe, DTR 11G, flatfrog, rhino2, or one of the others have a good answer as to why HD designed the trike like this. Seems like you guys all install lift kits to correct the design problem. What's up with that?

Well, I think the stock height of the TG or FLRT is probably good for most.... There are a lot of factors that come into play hear though....
I personally have the lift kit and think change to it on the FLRT does give it a better "stance" - IMHO. So, I got a lift kit for "looks" more than need......


SPringman

 

[Peter A.]

LIFT

I agree - installed the kit for looks (levels out the trike) + the added benifit of more ground clearance - why HD designed it that way ?

 

[KJB]

I put the lift kit on just for the prevention of pipe scraping. I had not scraped my pipes yet but I didn't want it to happen in the future. Maybe I'm not a keen observer but I don't notice any difference in ride and handling with the lift kit. I do notice the difference when I use a tape measure to check ground clearance so I know the lift kit is definitely there.

 

[Keystone]

Shock air pressure can make a difference too. My Tri Glide would scrape bad with only 30 lbs of air. Not as bad with 50 lbs. With the lift kit it never scrapped.

My Freewheeler is 3" shorter than the total length of the TG. So scrapping on most places doesn't happen. I have to air it up to 50 lbs. to load/unload in the trailer. Since I have the MacAir system that is a very simple task as it takes seconds to do. I can air them to max in about the same amount of time it takes to remove the side cover.

 

[rhino 2]

Besides that I didn't like the sagging back, I put on the lift back in 2011 so as not to scrape the pipes. I grew up in the 50's and that sagging rear end was common for most cars back then, Did not like it then and don't like it now.. Harley is very slow to change their looks.. And I guess for good reason :Shrug:

 

[Zammy]

I don't understand the saggy bottom look from HD any more than anyone else. We only have around 600 miles on our new Tri and just got the DK lifts installed over the weekend. Wife says it rides so much better back there so that's a big plus.

 

[msocko3]

Purely speculation on my part, I've always suspected they had the sag in the rear to keep the back from picking up a wheel. We all know under certain circumstances it is possible for it hike a wheel up on one side or the other. I can remember an article in American Iron when the Triglide 1st came out. The article spoke of Harley wanting the Triglide to simply spin out if a sharp maneuver was to take place. They claimed they simply went faster and faster in an increasing tighter circle until the Triglide would spin out.

Raising the back does increase the chance it could possibly turn turtle, I've yet to hear of anyone having it happen on a lifted Triglide. I have personally and heard of others, having a wheel on one side or the other come up off the ground under certain spirited riding situations.

A little googling and I just happened to where someone had shared that particular article on another forum, here it is below, and the statement on handling has been bolded.

Harley-Davison Builds Tri-Glide, A Modern 3-Wheeler ​

​

​

The rumor mill never seems to slow down when it comes to Harley-Davidson and its future bikes. I guess that kind of passion and curiosity is what drives the MoCo. The rumor of a factory Harley-Davidson trike making a comeback after more than three decades is true. The new Tri Glide Ultra Classic will be available at your local Harley dealer in limited numbers as a 2009 model.
Let's start with what the machine is and isn't. It is a genuine Harley-Davidson covered by a full factory 2 year warrantee. It is manufactured by Harley in association with Lehman Trikes of South Dakota. It lists for $29,999 (in the US) and is available in the 48 contiguous US states and Canada. It is well engineered, looks good and is a blast to ride. It isn't a warmed over Lehman trike. I don't know why this project was internally nicknamed "Boomer" but it was, and now you know.

What's involved in riding a trike verses a bike? Well, let's just say that they are exactly the same only different. Quite different. Same throttle, clutch, shifter and brakes. But the handling is more like a car because trikes don't lean, they steer around turns. So get used to pulling on one side of the handlebars and pushing on the other through the turns. And, thanks to all the extra weight out back, you'll have to slip the clutch a bit more and give it a bit more throttle coming off a stop than with a bike. Plus you can keep your feet on the floorboards all the time, even at a full stop. And always remember that your machine is a lot wider than a bike, even a bagger, when going through narrow spaces. And just because you missed the pothole in the road with your front tire doesn't mean you'll miss it with your rear ones. And. . . well you get the idea. Trikes and bikes are simply different.

Out on the road the Tri Glide is impressive. I have ridden several old and new trikes over the years and feel this is the best of the breed. Superior handling, a healthy power train and top notch fit and finish - and this was on a pre-production model! The low and high speed handling is more neutral than I expect from a trike. I suspect the purpose-build frame and specific fork geometry and rear suspension has a lot to do with that. Once you get used to slipping the clutch slightly from a dead stop and push/pull steering on the handlebars, riding the Tri Glide is a blast. I predict these machines will sell out quickly with a waiting line once word is out on how much fun they are. Anyone who has ridden a two-wheel motorcycle will quickly take to the Tri Glide and will be confidently cruising the highways and slicing through zig zag turns on back roads in no time.

In our discussions with Harley's marketing and engineering staff we heard how the main goal for the Tri Glide was "to extend riding access" which we took to mean extending the riding season (trikes handle better in snow, ice and rain than bikes do) as well as making people more comfortable riding a stable three-wheeler than a less stable two-wheeler. The Harley staffers told us their target customers tend to be more experienced riders. One of the senior people confided in us "A lot of people who try a Tri Glide for the first time are pleased and surprised with the ride." After we put some miles on one we have to agree.
Unlike any other current model Harley-Davidson that I am aware of, the host portion of the new Tri Glides are built on a new assembly line in the York factory. It is then shipped to the Lehman factory in South Dakota to be finished. From there, the complete machines are shipped to Milwaukee where they are forwarded on to the dealer network. When we asked about the relationship between Lehman Trikes and Harley-Davidson we were told that Lehman is actively involved in the process, but the Harley Tri Glides are quite different than Lehman's own Ultra-based trikes. While the Lehman version uses a modified stock Harley FL frame and one-piece rear body section, the Tri Glides use unique, purpose-built frames and separate rear body sections and fenders. Harley assured us the current association with Lehman is not based on a buy-out or a joint venture. Harley views Lehman as a supplier.

OK, so what else is unique or unusual about the Tri Glide? We have already touched on the specific-to-this-model frame with increased fork angle and less trail for better steering effort. It has an electronic hand control to activate the optional electric reverse motor. The front forks are longer than those on the two-wheel Ultras and have an external steering stabilizer for a more consistent ride.

The front wheel is a 16 inch hoop, the rears are 15 inchers. The wheels and brake rotors all match. Machines with this much weight need good brakes, and the front dual Brembos are up to the task. The 103 cubic inch engine mated with a heavy duty police-style clutch offers sufficient power to get down the road quite smartly. The Tri Glide has a unique transmission case and rear mounts are also different from the stock Harley Ultra two-wheel version. There is a standard oil cooler to help keep engine temperatures down, and the new for 2009 mufflers compliment the modified header pipes.
The Tour Pak is rated for up to 30 pounds of cargo, and the trunk, featuring hidden hinges and a lockable latch, can handle an additional 50 pounds in 4.3 cubic feet. We like the rear fenders are separate from the trunk and attached to it. Typically the trunk and rear fenders on most trikes are built as one unit making repairs or replacement quite expensive.

Apparently Harley management had been considering the possibility of adding a trike to the line-up for some time but there were many issues to deal with. These included safety concerns, marketing options, and manufacturing challenges. When we asked about the stability of a Tri Glide in various real world riding conditions, one of the Harley engineers responded by saying they designed it with several goals in mind. "We wanted it to slip" he said, "before it would tip."
2 critical measures the trike had to pass were the lane change maneuver at highway speeds, and the steady state turn (in tight circles at increasing speeds). The trike accomplished both with room to spare. Harley management ok'd the project when they realized the Ultra-based Tri Glide can go faster and corner harder than a stock Harley Ultra motorcycle "so we felt a comfort zone there."

All the 2009 Tri Glides will be based on Ultra Classics. But Harley isn't saying whether this might change in the future to expand across other models using V-Rods, Dynas or Sportsters as the base. However, given the fact that Harley considers the Tri Glide a new separate model platform, I'd bet there are more variations in the works. Personally, I'd like to see a water-cooled V-Rod powered trike.
Harley is planning on building only 2500 Tri Glides for 2009 in three color options - Vivid Black, Dark Blue Pearl or Red Hot Sunglo, and plans are for them to be available in Harley dealerships in August 2008. MSRP is $29,999, which is significantly less than a similar Lehman Harley Ultra, and the Tri Glide comes with a 2-year factory warrantee. Want one? Better get your name and deposit to your dealer ASAP. They are going to go fast.
For more information on Harley-[FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Davidson[/FONT] motorcycles - old and new - visit [/FONT]http://www.aimag.com the web site for American Iron Magazine, where this article first appeared

 

[Zammy]

Tnx for the read msocko3, very interesting observation. I guess time will tell how the lifts work out, I know from reading here that a lot of folks have them installed and are happy. We don't ride aggressively but you never know when a situation could come up. If we can ever get to a Trike safety course, it will be interesting to see what they teach.

 

[Steve on 3]

Excellent post. I liked that part that they would corner faster than the two wheeled motorcycles. Harley has test riders and they should certainly know which model is faster. You will never get a two wheeler to admit it though.

Thanks for the info Msocko

Steve

 

[msocko3]

Tnx for the read msocko3, very interesting observation. I guess time will tell how the lifts work out, I know from reading here that a lot of folks have them installed and are happy. We don't ride aggressively but you never know when a situation could come up. If we can ever get to a Trike safety course, it will be interesting to see what they teach.

My dad has been running lifts on his 09 for 40,000 miles, I also added lifts to the 2010 I had. We both grew tired of dragging the mufflers. I liked the lifts for making the trike look better and not drag the mufflers, a side benefit is it turned a little quicker. I only had mine lift a tire once during some spirited riding.

 

[jaxbobg]

The article msocko3 posted explains why the engineers at HD did that, but seems they could have achieved the same result by tweaking the suspension system, torsion bars, whatever.

I've been trike riding for a while, so sometimes get a little aggressive, especially on mountain roads.

I've lifted a wheel on a Lehman, Hannigan, and Roadsmith conversion but never felt like I was in any danger of going turtle.

Most experienced trike riders will instinctively make a quick correction in that situation and watch their speed going into the sharper curves. Besides, how often do trikers actually lift a wheel? The few times I did was due to carelessness on my part.

 

[msocko3]

The article msocko3 posted explains why the engineers at HD did that, but seems they could have achieved the same result by tweaking the suspension system, torsion bars, whatever.

I've been trike riding for a while, so sometimes get a little aggressive, especially on mountain roads.

I've lifted a wheel on a Lehman, Hannigan, and Roadsmith conversion but never felt like I was in any danger of going turtle.

Most experienced trike riders will instinctively make a quick correction in that situation and watch their speed going into the sharper curves. Besides, how often do trikers actually lift a wheel? The few times I did was due to carelessness on my part.

:Agree:

 

[geezerglide11441]

The article msocko3 posted explains why the engineers at HD did that, but seems they could have achieved the same result by tweaking the suspension system, torsion bars, whatever.

I've been trike riding for a while, so sometimes get a little aggressive, especially on mountain roads.

I've lifted a wheel on a Lehman, Hannigan, and Roadsmith conversion but never felt like I was in any danger of going turtle.

Most experienced trike riders will instinctively make a quick correction in that situation and watch their speed going into the sharper curves. Besides, how often do trikers actually lift a wheel? The few times I did was due to carelessness on my part.

Lifted the front one a few times, but never (as yet) one of the rears!!:clapping:

Roger

 

[DTR 11TG]

there is another possible reason why the TG has the saggy rear end look, some !@#$% design person at HD likes that !@#$% look. It would not be the first time designers pushed that type of look on cars, pickups & bikes, I for one hate the look and have raised the rear end on every vehicle I owned with that !@#$% look. Just my thoughts on that !@#$% look and why the TG has it and why a lot of us fixed it.:wave4:

 

[rhino 2]

there is another possible reason why the TG has the saggy rear end look, some !@#$% design person at HD likes that !@#$% look. It would not be the first time designers pushed that type of look on cars, pickups & bikes, I for one hate the look and have raised the rear end on every vehicle I owned with that !@#$% look. Just my thoughts on that !@#$% look and why the TG has it and why a lot of us fixed it.:wave4:

There's a show on cable called Gas Monkeys, And just about every car they build is done that way, They call it slammed.. Must be a Southern thing... They haven't gotten out of the 50's down there yet...

 

[DK Custom Products]

Great find on that article M3!

I've always believed that the rear was dragging to allow for the largest cushion possible if an inexperienced rider was to hit a corner too hot.

That article seems to confirm that, by inference.

I've run both the standard lift kit and the comfort lift kit for almost 80,000 miles, and unless someone was to hit a curve close to twice the posted speed for that corner, even with a lift kit it is not going to be an issue.

I can lift a rear wheel on a TG at will, with or without a lift kit. I can also go thru a corner at close to twice the posted speed and keep the tire on the ground, with or without a lift kit. The panhard rod only allows the wheel to lift so far before it does not want to lift any further. Significant additional force would have to be exerted for it to lift to a dangerous (tipping over) level. This accomplishes the HD goal of "We wanted it to slip" he said, "before it would tip."

An emergency swerve at speed is probably what HD was building the big safety cushion in (by keeping the rear as low as possible).

I remember reading about a gal that swerved to miss a deer, went on to the gravel shoulder, then over corrected and ended up rolling her TG. If I remember correctly, she did not have a lift kit.

Below is a video of Mary and I riding the dragon. TG was fully loaded, with a Comfort Lift and shocks at about 30 PSI. You can see that, even with excessive speeds in corners the TG is quite stable, I did not lift a rear tire once in the run.



Kevin

 

[DTR 11TG]

There's a show on cable called Gas Monkeys, And just about every car they build is done that way, They call it slammed.. Must be a Southern thing... They haven't gotten out of the 50's down there yet...

I watched a few episodes of the first season and that was way more than enough, I would rather dump a gal of gas on my TG & set it on fire than watch those clowns :AGGHH::gah: