Pulling trigger on 3k mods

[sgtmitch]

So first, we're new here. Hello to all and thanks for all of the info I've already read here before joining.

I'm basically writing for my dad he's the trike owner and about 95% computer illiterate. Not because he has to be but because he likes to be ornery and suspicious of everything.

I've done several days worth of research and I've been trying to narrow down to final decisions. I'd greatly appreciate any opinions and weigh-ins to finalize our choices. With the specialty tools and depending on final choices, I'm expecting close to 3k or a bit more.

We're changing the trans pulley to 30 tooth for certain (his is 2010).

Changing pipes most likely to jackpot 2-1-2 ceramics. Not sure on mufflers. Like the idea behind V&H new triglide model, but not the price. Like the sound from what I can tell on youtube of D&D fat cats, but not sure they would work with clearance (we are doing the 1.25" lift kit as well). Thought about FM pro touring, but don't know if they would work either, seem a bit long. Mainly what he wants is deeper sound and bark, but not obnoxious loud when cruising, and ideally something that won't have clearance issues. Any thoughts? Also we're doing the stage one A/C as well.

Cams, we're down to TW222 or maybe andrews 48h. At first glance before reading much, se 255 seemed to fit the bill. Since then, we're out because of the heat and the potential pinging. 48h seems to be a bit better in both areas. Although I've read not so much used in 103s, but I've seen several who have and been happy with them. Plus they sound great at idle (least important factor, but nice bonus, even though it means it's running less correct in order to sound like that). The 222s are expensive, and can't tell if they come on a bit higher than the 48s. My dad only really gets on it hard once in a great while. He's 99.9% of the time a sub-4,000 rpm guy. So low end grunt and mid range is all that really matters to him I think. We had about seven cams on our list, but these two seem most likely fit.

We're debating changing the lifters at the same time. He's still low mileage at less than 15k miles on the trike, if we did change, and we did go with the tw222, we would likely get a package deal with the wood directional lifters.

Finally, we're looking at probably Power Vision or power commander V, from Fuel Moto as I've seen how much they are respected and how great their service is. Some of these choices are also reliant on the hope that we could get a better canned map since FM pipes and the tw222 will have a lot of history. Noting that it will be a bit different on the triglide as someone pointed out in a recent thread. I wonder if Jamie has anything yet as far as triglide specific maps with these components, I have yet to contact them. Also, I understand the vision will do the speedo fix for the trans pulley?

What do you guys think about going to the SE comp at this time? I've read good and bad in almost equal amounts on this one. I understand they are stock on the newer bikes though. Are there any legit alternatives to the SE Comp?

Any comments or feedback on these choices; cams, pipes, mufflers, tuner?

Anyone have anything close to what we're thinking that they've been able to dial in pretty good on the PowerVision?

Thanks in advance. I may be more excited than the pops on this, I don't think he's fully aware of the difference all of this should make, but I know he'll be pretty happy with it. The stock trike seems pretty anemic to me. I know the 30 tooth is going to make at least half or more of the difference.

 

[Sloufoot]

I think what you need to do is read more of this forum threads. Where you are going on things seem to be behind the times. Read up on the cam threads. There are a couple new cams out there that are out doing the older cams big time. Also yes get rid of those stock lifters !
The tuner you choose won't come with an exact tune for the set-up you have on your Trike. Things just don't work like that. You have to be somewhere in the ball park with the first tune, then you will need to adjust from there. No two are identical !
If you put in much of a cam you will need to do some clutch work also. The stock clutch has it's limits, & those are pushed to the max with stock.
The exhaust system, you might best talk to someone like Fuel Moto at least for the header portion. Unless you know exactly what you are doing you will put a lot of money & performance down the toilet !!
Stay with a flash tuner like TTS, or Power Vision. Best for the money & performance.
I don't know how many miles on your Trike, but with a little care & minimal abuse the compensator will last maybe 45-50,000 miles. Look hard at the aftermarket comps also.
The front drive sprocket will help a lot to go to a 30 tooth if it hasn't already hasn't been done. But you must understand that the TriGlide is around 300# heaver that the Ultra 2 wheel ! Plus you can put more things in the trunk than the saddle bags.All things take their toll !!

 

[sgtmitch]

Thanks for the input. What other cams do you suggest? I've read about a few others, torquester 555, tw 555, 57h, SS 557, and others. However we really want it to come on low rpms and don't care much if it drops off after 4500. Seems a lot of people have been happy with the 222 and recommending it for the triglide.

 

[msocko3]

Sloufoot covered things pretty well. Another cam to look good and hard at is the TTS-100, covered in this thread http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/25394-Another-cam-thread-continued. I would replace the lifters at the time of replacing the cams, I'd use either S&S standard or premium, or Head-Quarters Black Ops lifters.

The Triglide already comes with a compensator which is identical to the Screamin eagle, so you won't need to address that.

 

[Sloufoot]

Another cam is the Wyrd Brothers XH-66 from Headquarters. As of now only one report here for this cam, but it also looks good for the heavy bodied Trike.
One other person put his 32 tooth sprocket back on & really likes it with the TTS-100.
The TW-222 is a good cam, but it comes in at higher RPM's. You want one to start as soon as it will for the bottom end torque with a heavy Trike. Also you might not need downshifting going down the road pushing that barn door around trucks & hills.

 

[sgtmitch]

Thanks guys. Great information. I spent many hours today looking at what I could find on the TTS 100 and emailed them for more info. Looks like a great option. Wyrd xh66 looks good too. I now think the TTS is at the top of the list. Anyone know if there are heat issues or pinging issues with it?

Spent hours looking at powervision vs TTS as well today. Leaning towards Powervision mainly because it seems more friendly to the less experienced guy. We'll probably get it dynoed at some point soon after the modifications, but I'd like to get to 90% or better before that. This doesn't seem unreasonable at all with either unit. I know there are firm people behind and in support of each unit as well. Some seem pretty biased to one or the other. I'm interested in the most realistic path into the tuning world for me as someone who has a great deal to learn in front of them. Also, we'll be using it for two bikes at least right now and maybe another in the future. I think the TTS is limited to two whereas PV is unlimited licenses.

The clutch was mentioned as something to consider upgrading now as well. What do you guys recommend here? I was thinking a variable pressure clutch, maybe from AIM. Claims a bit lighter pull which would be nice for my dad, he has a bit of trouble if we're in stop and go a lot. I did mention the clutch wiz option and he declined. The VPC seems it might address both issues well enough.

 

[msocko3]

Thanks guys. Great information. I spent many hours today looking at what I could find on the TTS 100 and emailed them for more info. Looks like a great option. Wyrd xh66 looks good too. I now think the TTS is at the top of the list. Anyone know if there are heat issues or pinging issues with it?

Spent hours looking at powervision vs TTS as well today. Leaning towards Powervision mainly because it seems more friendly to the less experienced guy. We'll probably get it dynoed at some point soon after the modifications, but I'd like to get to 90% or better before that. This doesn't seem unreasonable at all with either unit. I know there are firm people behind and in support of each unit as well. Some seem pretty biased to one or the other. I'm interested in the most realistic path into the tuning world for me as someone who has a great deal to learn in front of them. Also, we'll be using it for two bikes at least right now and maybe another in the future. I think the TTS is limited to two whereas PV is unlimited licenses.

The clutch was mentioned as something to consider upgrading now as well. What do you guys recommend here? I was thinking a variable pressure clutch, maybe from AIM. Claims a bit lighter pull which would be nice for my dad, he has a bit of trouble if we're in stop and go a lot. I did mention the clutch wiz option and he declined. The VPC seems it might address both issues well enough.

Another thought on tuner choice, if you decide to have it tuned on a dyno. Some dyno tuners have certain tuners they prefer and others they're not very good at. I've bumped into tuners who liked Dynojet tuning products, PCIII, PCV, Powervison. Then I've bumped into those who will only tune with the Screamin Eagle Pro Supertuner, or the TTS. You may wish to check out who your choice would be if you do decide to have it professionally tuned so you don't get stuck with something they won't use.

He's missing out on the ClutchWiz, the VPC only starts doing its thing when the RPM's are at 3,500 and up. It does ease clutch pull, it just doesn't help when getting a heavy trike moving. A big help would be a heavier spring, the 480 pound spring which is made by Evolution and sold by AIM and also the maker of the ClutchWiz, is the spring I'd choose. Eventually you may need to replace the stock clutch plates due to slipping, even with a heavy spring and a VPC. I'd go to an extra plate clutch such as the Barnett or Energy one at that time.

I'm running a ClutchWiz and the 480 pound spring on my dads 09 Triglide, I also installed the Energy one extra plate clutch when his stock one started to wear. IMO the whole package is a winner, it has an easy clutch pull and the clutch holds good.

 

[sandrooney]

We have 2- 2010 TG's and I went with, FM Jackpot headers, Jackpot mufflers, Jackpot A/C, Woods 222's, FM Pushrods (Smith Bros.), Woods Lifters, Dunn Performance Heads and Power Vision on both trikes. Lifters a little loud other than that they run awesome. I would not change a thing. I found no need to do anything to the clutch it hold just fine.

Just my experience, SR

 

[sgtmitch]

Thanks for the clutch info M3, looks like I will have to eventually persuade him on the clutch wiz. I would imagine the heavier spring will make a fairly noticable difference at the lever to him.

Sand, that was pretty much the package I was planning to do as well, minus the heads. You didn't change your trans sprocket to the thirty tooth? The thought has occured to me since we're doing the 30 tooth change that there would be less of a problem going with a cam that comes on a bit higher. Still like the looks of the tts100. I'd like to be sure it didn't have heat or pinging issues before we get them, haven't found an answer on that yet. With the 30 tooth and a low end cam, plus dropping the heat issue and getting rid of the neutered sound of a stock bike. I'm pretty sure the old man will be smiling. Leaning towards RC components mufflers now, or possibly jackpot. Sure like the sound of the RC.

 

[sgtmitch]

Just looked at the Barnett clutch website, looks like the place to go for the next one.

 

[msocko3]

Thanks for the clutch info M3, looks like I will have to eventually persuade him on the clutch wiz. I would imagine the heavier spring will make a fairly noticable difference at the lever to him.

The spring installed without any aid such as the ClutchWiz or a VPC, would make a difficult clutch pull. With the ClutchWiz or VPC installed on top of a heavy clutch, the pull will be as easy or easier than stock. When I had my 2010 Triglide I ran the ClutchWiz on top of a Screamin Eagle spring, I could pull that clutch in with 2 fingers all day long.

 

[sandrooney]

I did not change the gearing and have found no reason to. Like I said the trikes run great. I have never heard the RC mufflers but the Jackpots sound great especially after the cams and heads.

 

[screwball]

Out of curiosity, does your dad plan on drag racing his trike??? Why all the engine and gearing mods. Wife and I have and had 4 Harley trikes, all basically stock and have ridden all over the South-West.

When wife got her first trike after riding a Deluxe the clutch was a bit hard to pull. I replaced the 103cid clutch spring with one from a 96cid engine. 55,000 miles later it was still working just fine, never slipped, and at a cost of $36.00 didn't send us to the poor house.

 

[sgtmitch]

Out of curiosity, does your dad plan on drag racing his trike??? Why all the engine and gearing mods.

Thanks for your thoughts. I believe the mods we're looking at are actually minimal needs for the trike excluding the cams. My dad is not a drag racer although he would like to be able to use 6th gear and not have his right leg fried. Your trikes are newer so they have the 30 tooth sprocket already. I don't know what your older ones were. We want the bike to run cooler not only for comfort but also for longevity. Some are happy with their bikes stock, some are not. He's in the middle. There are tradeoffs. He doesn't want a lot of maintenance or worries that may be more likely with extreme changes. Just some mild stuff.

Incidentally, thanks for your service. My dad spent some time in the 82nd airborne and is also a Vietnam Veteran.

 

[sandrooney]

May not need it but it sure is fun.

 

[sgtmitch]

How about thoughts on an oil pump upgrade while doing the cams? Done some research and don't see a real need to go the SE cam plate with mild builds.

I have read that the 07 and newer pumps are basically the SE version for the 06 and older bikes. The hyd tensioners on the 07 and newer being part of the reason for the change. The oil cooler would add to the demand on the pump as well. So I've been wondering if the 62400001 pump would be a good proactive thing to do with the cam chest apart.

Seems the stock pump is sufficient for most everything on the mild side, and I believe it's the same pump used in the 110 and 120r but not sure. Just concerned with the trikes needs and seemed like a reasonable and logical improvement to consider for $120 while I'm in there anyway. ??

 

[msocko3]

How about thoughts on an oil pump upgrade while doing the cams? Done some research and don't see a real need to go the SE cam plate with mild builds.

I have read that the 07 and newer pumps are basically the SE version for the 06 and older bikes. The hyd tensioners on the 07 and newer being part of the reason for the change. The oil cooler would add to the demand on the pump as well. So I've been wondering if the 62400001 pump would be a good proactive thing to do with the cam chest apart.

Seems the stock pump is sufficient for most everything on the mild side, and I believe it's the same pump used in the 110 and 120r but not sure. Just concerned with the trikes needs and seemed like a reasonable and logical improvement to consider for $120 while I'm in there anyway. ??

The stock cam plate and pump will do just fine, only way I would even consider replacing the pump is if it showed signs of excess wear. I just got done redoing the top end on my dads 09 Triglide, along with swapping to different cams and ported heads. At 50,000 miles the stock oil pump looked fine, so I put it back in. The stock cam plate was fine also, I checked the bores where the cams runs and they were good, so the cam plate is still being used. I checked the crank run out on that side and its still sitting at .001 which is where it was 40,000 miles ago when I 1st checked it.

I'd install the cams with a new set of either S&S or Head-Quarters black ops lifters. S&S does make a premium lifter which I wouldn't bother with for a mild cam. I'd also inspect the chain tensioner shoes and replace them if they show abnormal wear. When I did my dads I replaced his shoes, they could have gone a little longer but I figured 50,000 miles was good enough.

HD has been installing the same pump PN 26037-06 in all twin cams since the 06 Dyna and 07 and later touring, the same pump is also installed in the 110 CVO engine. The 120R does use PN 62400001 oil pump.

 

[sgtmitch]

Thanks M3, once again, great information.

Good to know what you're seeing in your dad's machine as well; that's reassuring.

I do plan to use the black ops lifters- if I can get a hold of them. I'm sure all these guys are swamped right about now. Also decided to go with the TTS-100 cam so pretty excited about that too.

Heading out to tear into the sprocket change.

 

[Gorilla]

just be aware that the HQ lifters take a little longer to arrive because they come out of Canada. Mine took 4 days in Chicago customs before they were sent on.

 

[sgtmitch]

uh oh... I was hoping to get it all done over next weekend..

 

[msocko3]

uh oh... I was hoping to get it all done over next weekend..

Well that might be a problem, you could always call and see if they have a US dealer who could take care of you. I know HQ has some dealers who do HQ builds in the states, just don't know who they are.

 

[sgtmitch]

I just got done redoing the top end on my dads 09 Triglide, along with swapping to different cams and ported heads. At 50,000 miles the stock oil pump looked fine, so I put it back in. The stock cam plate was fine also, I checked the bores where the cams runs and they were good, so the cam plate is still being used. I checked the crank run out on that side and its still sitting at .001 which is where it was 40,000 miles ago when I 1st checked it. I'd install the cams with a new set of either S&S or Head-Quarters black ops lifters. S&S does make a premium lifter which I wouldn't bother with for a mild cam. I'd also inspect the chain tensioner shoes and replace them if they show abnormal wear. When I did my dads I replaced his shoes, they could have gone a little longer but I figured 50,000 miles was good enough.

What would you say were the things needing the most attention when you went through your Dad's top end? Curious because we have a 07 Ultra with 53,000 on it. Did you go through the heads and send them out for the work or did you order some others ready to go?

I'm curious about rocker shaft and bushings, valve seats, springs.. I have read that all that stuff should go a while-maybe near 100k if properly maintained before serious concerns arise. But since I've decided to go through the top on the Triglide and the Ultra for the cam changes, in order to reuse the stock pushrods (adjustables raise concern after reading about broken locknuts, etc), it will be perfect opportunity to take care of other wear items along the way.

Also did you find somewhere that you can buy the tensioner shoes separately? Or did you have to buy the whole tensioner assemblies?

Which cam did your dad decide on at your 50k work? I know he was using the Woods 555 for quite awhile.

 

[msocko3]

What would you say were the things needing the most attention when you went through your Dad's top end? Curious because we have a 07 Ultra with 53,000 on it. Did you go through the heads and send them out for the work or did you order some others ready to go?

I'm curious about rocker shaft and bushings, valve seats, springs.. I have read that all that stuff should go a while-maybe near 100k if properly maintained before serious concerns arise. But since I've decided to go through the top on the Triglide and the Ultra for the cam changes, in order to reuse the stock pushrods (adjustables raise concern after reading about broken locknuts, etc), it will be perfect opportunity to take care of other wear items along the way.

Also did you find somewhere that you can buy the tensioner shoes separately? Or did you have to buy the whole tensioner assemblies?

Which cam did your dad decide on at your 50k work? I know he was using the Woods 555 for quite awhile.

The rear cylinder was hosed, the leak down was greater than 10% and there was a lot of blow by. So we sent out another set of cylinders he had sitting around and had them bored. Since he hasn't used the the start button on the trike to start it, he hasn't had the ACR's to assist with hot starts. So we took it as a perfect opportunity to send out a set of heads I had laying around and have them gone over, ported and manual compression releases installed. He doesn't use the stock start button because it has shorted out 3 times with one time stranding us 1,400 miles from home, he now uses a start button on the started.

We sent the cylinders and the heads out to Big Boyz, I specified the combustion chamber CC I was looking for and let Bean do his thing on the ports. Yes he ran the Wood 555 for about 40,000 miles, they worked pretty well. I had a set of Head-Quarters HQ-525 cams setting around I was going to try in the 2010 Triglide I used to have, got rid of the trike before I had a chance to try them out. We decided to install them in my dads, I took it for a short little putt yesterday. I think once I have it completely tuned its going to be a pretty good combination.

Who ever you choose to do your heads can check valves, guides and spring pressures. The rocker shafts and the bushings in the rockers were just fine, I also checked the cam plate to make sure the area where the cams ride was still round and in spec, this can get egg shaped as miles add up. I checked the crank runout on the cam side, it was still sitting at .001 where I found it 40,000 miles ago. I just bought the tensioner assemblies from Harley, they don't cost that much when you think about how many miles you can get out of them, these are what I removed.


I don't blame you for sticking with once piece pushrods, I'm not a big fan of adjustable myself. I reused his stock pushrods, even with the milling of the heads to achieve the combustion chamber volume I was looking for and the .030 head gasket we were still good to go with stock length.

If I was to use an adjustable push rod I would choose Smith Brothers, they build a top notch pushrod. You can even have them make custom length one piece pushrods.

 

[sgtmitch]

Crank runout concerns

Well so far so good until taking a look at the crankshaft runout... I measured .006 or very slightly less. Service manual says anything over .003 replace it. However I've read online that Harley now says .012, and if it's less they won't do anything about it. I have a picture of the crank where it's scarring... any thoughts much appreciated. I may just continue on if Harley wouldn't warranty it anyway.. It's past the time on the factory warranty but I believe there is an extended warranty on it. Just not confident that they will do anything about it at .006 with what I've read..

Also concerned that adding torque via cams, etc, will exacerbate the problem that much faster..

This bike also has the older cam plate with the bronze bushing, wondering if the newer version will hold up any better considering the runout.

 

[msocko3]

Well so far so good until taking a look at the crankshaft runout... I measured .006 or very slightly less. Service manual says anything over .003 replace it. However I've read online that Harley now says .012, and if it's less they won't do anything about it. I have a picture of the crank where it's scarring... any thoughts much appreciated. I may just continue on if Harley wouldn't warranty it anyway.. It's past the time on the factory warranty but I believe there is an extended warranty on it. Just not confident that they will do anything about it at .006 with what I've read..

Also concerned that adding torque via cams, etc, will exacerbate the problem that much faster..

This bike also has the older cam plate with the bronze bushing, wondering if the newer version will hold up any better considering the runout.

You are correct, Harley won't do anything with less than .012. Back in 07 when there were a lot of cranks failing, Harley just increased the spec so more of them would still be considered good. Most of the time you don't see anything bad happen until about .008, it will normally eat the oil pump 1st.

Chances are yours may have been .006 from the factory, the 2010 Triglide I had was at .005 from the factory. IMO, I wouldn't sweat putting a set of mild cams such as the TTS-100 in, I wouldn't increase displacement, bump the compression or put on some ported heads.

The end of the crank doesn't look that terrible, I would rather have the bushed cam plate vs the parent material plate they are now using.

 

[sgtmitch]

You are correct, Harley won't do anything with less than .012. Back in 07 when there were a lot of cranks failing, Harley just increased the spec so more of them would still be considered good. Most of the time you don't see anything bad happen until about .008, it will normally eat the oil pump 1st.

Chances are yours may have been .006 from the factory, the 2010 Triglide I had was at .005 from the factory. IMO, I wouldn't sweat putting a set of mild cams such as the TTS-100 in, I wouldn't increase displacement, bump the compression or put on some ported heads.

The end of the crank doesn't look that terrible, I would rather have the bushed cam plate vs the parent material plate they are now using.

Thanks so much, all of what you said here makes me feel a lot better about it. Looking forward to getting it all back together tomorrow. Hopefully if it does go south, it will be noticed soon enough to prevent major damage.

Incidentally, I have a few o-rings here (pictured in next post) that I suspect are all for the oil pump. I didn't take the oil pump off the cam plate and I've never been into one before so I don't know for certain that these go there. I was able to find the larger one in pictures when I search, but the smaller ones I didn't see anywhere. I was wondering since you have probably been inside a few oil pumps I'm guessing, do you recognize these as all belonging to the oil pump? My mind is not at rest wondering if I somehow missed one somewhere, and it's a long way back once it's all together if it turns out that I did. I read and re-read the service manual pertaining to all the areas I've touched, plus searching online and I'm not getting confirmation on the smaller ones. The smallest one I believe is made with a high temp material.

 

[sgtmitch]

O-rings left from Cometic kit.... as I look at it now, probably resembles the look on my face..

 

[msocko3]

O-rings left from Cometic kit.... as I look at it now, probably resembles the look on my face..

The biggest o-ring is for the 1999 - 06 touring or up to 05 dyna. That oil pump uses and o-ring to seal to the cam plate, the newer models starting with the 06 Dyna and 07 touring are a machined fit, metal to metal. The small brown looks like one of the 2 o-rings that go on the left side of the cam chest. The 2 smaller black are a little tougher, I can't tell the thickness, they look like either for the push rod tube, or for where the oil pump goes into the case.

In the below picture you will see 2 of the brown o-rings circled in white. There is also a yellow o-ring where the oil pump goes into the right side case, it is pointed out with a white arrow. Don't sweat the color of the o-ring that goes to the oil pump and case half connection, what counts is the size and material of construction. I've had yellow and black o-rings in this application.

One word of caution when your torquing the cam plate. The 2 bolts that go through the dowels at times strip easily, I'd torque them to the lower end of the spec. On a lot of my builds I install studs in those 2 positions.

 

[sgtmitch]

Thanks M3. I did get those three o rings replaced in your picture. I guess I'm not going to worry about the others from the kit. As you said some of the older bikes use them and I believe this kit is for multiple years.

Nice way to keep the oil off all the wires and conduits under the cam chest.

Thanks for the heads up on the bolts that might strip easily, I'll be careful.

I'm going to owe you a dinner if I ever make it through your neck of the woods, or you through mine.

Much appreciated.

I was just looking at the headpipe and the oxygen sensor leads are reversed! Have you seen this on anything you've worked on? I've got Grey to the back and black to the front. As far as I know it may have always been like this unless the dealer would have any reason to mess with these at regular service intervals.

Switching to FuelMoto pipe so I will change them back... Hope they didn't cross them from the receptacles back and found they had to reverse them in the headpipe to get it worked out, because then I'll be backwards again.

 

[msocko3]

Thanks M3. I did get those three o rings replaced in your picture. I guess I'm not going to worry about the others from the kit. As you said some of the older bikes use them and I believe this kit is for multiple years.

Nice way to keep the oil off all the wires and conduits under the cam chest.

Thanks for the heads up on the bolts that might strip easily, I'll be careful.

I'm going to owe you a dinner if I ever make it through your neck of the woods, or you through mine.

Much appreciated.

I was just looking at the headpipe and the oxygen sensor leads are reversed! Have you seen this on anything you've worked on? I've got Grey to the back and black to the front. As far as I know it may have always been like this unless the dealer would have any reason to mess with these at regular service intervals.

Switching to FuelMoto pipe so I will change them back... Hope they didn't cross them from the receptacles back and found they had to reverse them in the headpipe to get it worked out, because then I'll be backwards again.

I've got several gasket kits with left over O-rings and gaskets, your right, they do fit several model years.

Never ran into the O2 sensor problem, he black is for the rear cyl and obviously the other is for the front. If you get them backwards it'll run, just won't run real well.