Metal in primary fluid?

[MB1953]

Just performed the 40K service on my '14 TG, and noticed something different. The primary fluid had a silvery tinge, and there was fine metal on the drain plug magnet. I run Redline primary lube, changed every 10K per HD spec. I have not heard any new or different noises from the primary, and have not pulled the primary cover yet to inspect (planning to take it to the dealer for them to look at since it is still under ES Plan coverage).

Any ideas as to what might be going on here?

 

[tfdeputydawg]

Check the tensioner

 

[trikermutha]

any clunking that you can hear? Maybe Compensator..

I would open up the primary and check it out doesn't sound good from your description.

 

[Sunman]

On my 2005 SE Electraglide Classic with 103 motor I found pieces of metal in the primary fluid on an oil change. I pulled the primary cover and checked everything over very carefully but couldn't find and thing out of order. The bike was still under warranty for another 10 days so I took it to the local HD Dealer and showed them the metal pieces I took out of the primary. They tore it down and it turned out to be the washer under the nut that held on the stator rotor had come apart. They said this had been a problem on some of the 2005 bikes because the nut wasn't properly torqued down at the factory. Might be something to check.

Sunman

 

[MB1953]

At this point, since it is still under (I hope) warranty, I am hesitant to open it up without letting the service department do it ("you must have broken that when you took it apart"). I say I hope because the 2 year warranty is gone, and now I am in the 4 year Extended Service Plan; it seems like there is a broader interpretation as to what is covered and what is not. I know when I bought the ESP, the Sales Manager said "it covers the bike from end to end" which I am finding ain't exactly so...
:AGGHH:
As for the compensator, I can't rule it out, but there are no clunks...

 

[Gorilla]

I agree get i in and have them look at it. They have more experience at that then we do. It also could be just normal wear. That area is a high wear area.

 

[MB1953]

Well, I took it to the dealer (not the dealer I was originally going to take it to, but one whose service department I have more faith in) and they listened to my description and took it for a test ride (a rather long one) to evaluate the condition. The dealer analysis: there is no primary noise out of the ordinary, no evidence of excessive primary play or slop, normal compensator action, and the silver tinge to the primary fluid and some metal on the drain plug magnet was typical of normal clutch wear after 40000 miles. Still not 100% sure that I agree completely, but I do feel better about it, and I have a signed, dated service report with mileage noted that gives me a warmer fuzzy and a get out of jail free card of sorts.

Time to ride... and still keep an eye (and ear) out down the road!

 

[HDB0B]

After seeing my first primary oil change (performed by myself) I decided that I would change the Primary fluid every time I do the engine oil. I use H-D Formula+ (40 oz. in my 2014 (+2 extra ounces as recommended by my Dealership)). That primary fluid really takes a beating.

Glad they did not find anything bad in yours.

Bob

 

[trikermutha]

:Agree: there is a lot of moving parts in the primary..clutch,chain,tensioner,compensator.

 

[MB1953]

After seeing my first primary oil change (performed by myself) I decided that I would change the Primary fluid every time I do the engine oil. I use H-D Formula+ (40 oz. in my 2014 (+2 extra ounces as recommended by my Dealership)). That primary fluid really takes a beating.

Bob

Well, as the miles pile up, I guess it would be cheap insurance to do the primary every time I do the engine oil. I am curious... the manual warns about overfilling the primary leading to clutch drag, problems finding neutral and ragged engagement. Ever run into any issues?

 

[Capt.Bob]

Well, as the miles pile up, I guess it would be cheap insurance to do the primary every time I do the engine oil. I am curious... the manual warns about overfilling the primary leading to clutch drag, problems finding neutral and ragged engagement. Ever run into any issues?

IMHO, Having a dealership make a recommendation to exceed the fluid requirements defined by the MOCO based on their engineering expertise doesn't make much sense? No offense intended but none of the Harley dealer's I have ever been to have personnel that I think have the capabilities to meet/exceed the expertise of the MOCO in terms of detailed statistical materials destruction analyses and research into each operating system on our bikes/trikes. These bikes just haven't changed that much in 30 plus years and Harley is continuously testing failed components and working with metrologists to figure out what is happening with their components. Their (MOCO) recommendations would seem to carry significantly more weight than a dealership wrench throwing out an opinion based on limited data.

 

[HDB0B]

IMHO, Having a dealership make a recommendation to exceed the fluid requirements defined by the MOCO based on their engineering expertise doesn't make much sense? No offense intended but none of the Harley dealer's I have ever been to have personnel that I think have the capabilities to meet/exceed the expertise of the MOCO in terms of detailed statistical materials destruction analyses and research into each operating system on our bikes/trikes. These bikes just haven't changed that much in 30 plus years and Harley is continuously testing failed components and working with metrologists to figure out what is happening with their components. Their (MOCO) recommendations would seem to carry significantly more weight than a dealership wrench throwing out an opinion based on limited data.

I trust my Dealer's Master mechanic .... and 2 ounces more oil in a trike with a lift kit that is changing the oil angle in the primary is not going to hurt anything. Our clutch packs are in-cased and not slathered with oil all the time. Slightly more oil on the compensator is a good thing. I have over 20K miles with no problems.

MOCO says 26 psi in rear tires ..... NOT ... I use 22 psi.

YOU GUYS HERE TAUGHT ME THAT!

I've been wrenching on Harleys since 1971 and don't blindly follow any advice. I'm old school and not a simple parts replacer ..... I figure out what caused a problem and FIX-IT.

Bob

 

[Capt.Bob]

I trust my Dealer's Master mechanic .... and 2 ounces more oil in a trike with a lift kit that is changing the oil angle in the primary is not going to hurt anything. Our clutch packs are in-cased and not slathered with oil all the time. Slightly more oil on the compensator is a good thing. I have over 20K miles with no problems.

MOCO says 26 psi in rear tires ..... NOT ... I use 22 psi. YOU GUYS HERE TAUGHT ME THAT!

I've been wrenching on Harleys since 1971 and don't blindly follow any advice. I'm old school and not a simple parts replacer .....

I figure out what caused a problem and FIX-IT.

Bob

Bob, Sounds like you are right on top of it and thinking things through rather than blindly following someone's advice. On the tire pressure issue, you probably read that a simple updating of industry tire pressure charts was the cause for the 26 psi rear tire fiasco and not related to safety/performance issues. You are right on the money about folks here helping each other out. I did a premature change out of my primary case fluid after reading from you and others about all of the moving parts that have to be lubricated. Oil is cheap compared to any fixes. Thanks for the feedback and ride safe. Capt. Bob

 

[desertclassic]

This was a good read, I will pay attention to the primary. Jim

 

[pcombe]

I agree get i in and have them look at it. They have more experience at that then we do. It also could be just normal wear. That area is a high wear area.

I agree, some wear is normal. are we talking fines or pieces of metal? If it's fines I wouldn't get overly concerned if it isn't much?
Pieces, can be more than one culprit.

 

[MB1953]

I agree, some wear is normal. are we talking fines or pieces of metal? If it's fines I wouldn't get overly concerned if it isn't much?
Pieces, can be more than one culprit.

The stuff stuck to the magnetic drain plug was fine, as was what made the fuid a silvery tinge. No trace of chunks... if it would have been chunky, I would have not ridden it (for sure!)

 

[pcombe]

The stuff stuck to the magnetic drain plug was fine, as was what made the fuid a silvery tinge. No trace of chunks... if it would have been chunky, I would have not ridden it (for sure!)

" if it would have been chunky, I would have not ridden it (for sure!) "

I guess that part escaped me?

I once had a bolt break in the clutch hub and chewed things up a might, I was 20 miles from home at the time, and got a trailer. Glad I wasn't any further out?
The last time I let a dealer do anything on my scooter.:gah
It's a sad deal when they cant torque a bolt? Where have all the mechanics gone?