Home Built Subaru Trike

[Speed Demon]

Hello everybody. I introduced myself in the new members forum and now I need some advice. I rode this trike last Sunday and I must say it wasn't exactly fun. This was my first experience on a trike and of course I am not used to the handling characteristics.

First of all it needs BRAKES BRAKES BRAKES. It has only rear disc single piston calipers with a 4 port dune buggy master cylinder. I have to STAND on the pedal to get it to stop. I extended the pedal arm to help but it did not do much. So I have ordered a dual master cylinder setup with 1" bore cylinders. I plan to run 1 cylinder to each wheel in the rear with the hopes that if a caliper or hose or cylinder fails I will still have a working brake on 1 wheel.

I know it will probably pull to the side that is working but my thinking is 1 is better than none !! What do you all think ?? Also I have found and ordered the complete front dual disc setup to add for straight stopping. ?????? Secondly What the heck is the best way to keep the front end on the ground ?? If I come off the clutch too quick or throttle just a bit hard the front end comes up.

If I am in a curve like pulling out of a road, when I shift to 2nd even throttling easy the front wheel looses contact with road and when it comes down naturally I don't have the front wheel in the exact position it was in when losing contact so it swerves a bit when it comes down.

Steering damper ????? Weight on front ???? Wheelie bars ???? I am more interested in safety than looking cool. So please chime in and help me figure out the best way forward. There are other issues but these 2 are the main ones for now. Thanks in advance for any advice given !!!

 

[ol' school]

I am thinking wheelie bars...

 

[1dn5up]

I see front rotors but no calipers? So I would start there.

If that motor is a transverse, it’s heavier than a VW , so load up the front with some lead and see how it does :Shrug:. Personaly, mid engine would ballance it out.

Not responsible for my insane information orag:

 

[LarryA]

Welcome Speed Demon

I would think, with single caliper rears....that a smaller bore master cyl, maybe 3/4 bore or less, would make for less braking effort. I am not liking the idea of the dual m/c set up like that. With light a front end , braking at high speeds, with possible uneven pressure things could get dicey real fast. I think with the increased pressure of the smaller bore your brakes will work much better.

yes, move weight forward, add weight forward, do what you have to do, That's a very nice trike you got there, just needs some fine tuning! my .02 Larry

 

[LarryA]

nother thought

One thing I would try before getting into master cylinders, is to try brake pads of different materials.....sometime the more long wearing pads ( metalic etc.) need more pressure to grab. I would try a stock or cheaper pad, might make a difference! Might be worth a try???? Perforated discs may grab better also????

Larry

 

[Papa Zook]

Hi Greg and welcome to the forum. I like the looks of your trike. What is under the front cowling? Is there room for some lead ballast under there?

 

[Speed Demon]

Hi Greg and welcome to the forum. I like the looks of your trike. What is under the front cowling? Is there room for some lead ballast under there?

Hi Papa Zook. Yes there is room for some ballast. I have access to some 100# rectangular lead plates. The master cylinder is under the very front and hangs down below the framing so I either have to relocate it or remove it. I have ordered a floor mount m/cyl setup so I can remove it. Also I was thinking I have enough room under the front to hang a donut spare tire and make a cover out of some 14ga metal. The trike sits off the ground a little more than I like so it worries me about air flowing underneath and lifting the front up @ highway speeds. I think making the tire cover around 6" with the same curvature as the front has may actually help keep the front down. Does that make sense ???

 

[Speed Demon]

I see front rotors but no calipers? So I would start there.

If that motor is a transverse, it’s heavier than a VW , so load up the front with some lead and see how it does :Shrug:. Personaly, mid engine would ballance it out.

Not responsible for my insane information orag:

Hi 1dn5up. The Subaru is adapted to the VW tranny so no transverse. I have found and ordered the complete front brake setup which will hopefully make straight braking much much better, but in a turn ?????? Probably won't use the front much in a turn, might get scary.

 

[1dn5up]

Hi 1dn5up. The Subaru is adapted to the VW tranny so no transverse. I have found and ordered the complete front brake setup which will hopefully make straight braking much much better, but in a turn ?????? Probably won't use the front much in a turn, might get scary.

You can call me Frank ,

Most of your stopping power is on the front wheel, so if you can keep it on the ground ya got it made. Never brake in a turn, slowdown before. Also another thing to consider is the front rake issue, Zook is very knowledgeable on that. That motor has lots more guts than the VW, be carefull !

 

[stacebg]

You can call me Frank ,

Most of your stopping power is on the front wheel, so if you can keep it on the ground ya got it made. Never brake in a turn, slowdown before. Also another thing to consider is the front rake issue, Zook is very knowledgeable on that. That motor has lots more guts than the VW, be carefull !

generally speaking front has more stopping power but you need a good part of weigh in the front seems a lot of the rear engine trike dont have enough weight for good stopping power in the front

 

[stacebg]

Hello everybody. I introduced myself in the new members forum and now I need some advice. I rode this trike last Sunday and I must say it wasn't exactly fun. This was my first experience on a trike and of course I am not used to the handling characteristics.

First of all it needs BRAKES BRAKES BRAKES. It has only rear disc single piston calipers with a 4 port dune buggy master cylinder. I have to STAND on the pedal to get it to stop. I extended the pedal arm to help but it did not do much. So I have ordered a dual master cylinder setup with 1" bore cylinders. I plan to run 1 cylinder to each wheel in the rear with the hopes that if a caliper or hose or cylinder fails I will still have a working brake on 1 wheel.

I know it will probably pull to the side that is working but my thinking is 1 is better than none !! What do you all think ?? Also I have found and ordered the complete front dual disc setup to add for straight stopping. ?????? Secondly What the heck is the best way to keep the front end on the ground ?? If I come off the clutch too quick or throttle just a bit hard the front end comes up.

If I am in a curve like pulling out of a road, when I shift to 2nd even throttling easy the front wheel looses contact with road and when it comes down naturally I don't have the front wheel in the exact position it was in when losing contact so it swerves a bit when it comes down.

Steering damper ????? Weight on front ???? Wheelie bars ???? I am more interested in safety than looking cool. So please chime in and help me figure out the best way forward. There are other issues but these 2 are the main ones for now. Thanks in advance for any advice given !!!View attachment 51785View attachment 51786View attachment 51787View attachment 51788

as for the brakes the 1st thing comes to mind is the size of the tire... guessing the diameter is quite a bit more than the stock tires for the original set up... been there before.... the bigger the tire the more "leverage " they have on the axle / brakes... dont know how to explain it better... ask any one who put monster tires on a truck

maybe you put some bigger disks on...i had a subie rear in one of mine had drum brake and to get the gear ration right had to put huge tires on... tried different mc an long pedal... to no avail...adapted some disk better ... not good then went to a bigger disk an it was fine..

you might find a smaller diameter mc will help but i doubt it will be enough

as for a dual m/c i would advise against it dont think it would stop straight, if you are worried about breaking a line or something an e brake would be safer

as for the front end coming up imho wheelie bars are only a bandaid.. they help taking off but pretty useless in a corner you need a lot of weight to off set all the weight that is behind the axle...

stace

 

[Speed Demon]

Hi guys. Well I have read some of the advice given on my braking situation and have decided to change course accordingly. My dual master cylinder setup is due in any day now. As soon as it gets here , its going on ebay to sell. I found a 3/4" single master cylinder that has the larger reservoir and a floor mount pedal. I am mounting it on the running board so I can scrap the m/cyl that is underneath. Then I can add some lead to the very front.

The current cylinder is a empi style 22mm bore 4 port for a dune buggy. I couldn't find a 5/8 bore with the larger reservoir. They all had tiny ones like for a clutch. I am going to start with a 100# weight all the way to the very front. If that is not enough the I will double it up and see what happens.

My front end brakes came in today so I can install them between now and this weekend. I am also considering changing to larger calipers and vented rotors as was suggested. I didn't mention earlier that the rear rotors were non-vented. I don't have a clue what the current disc brake system came off of, but with some good buddies at the wrecking yard, I can come with a workable scenario. Also I bought a backrest for the driver so my back won't hurt after riding for 3 or 4 days straight !!!

Will be back in a week or so with new pics and info on how the upgrades work. Thanks for the advice, I knew I came to the right place !!

 

[neal]

My .02

Even if you have issues doing wheelies now..what`s gonna happen when you get past low speeds and the large wing spoiler starts making down-force ?

 

[Speed Demon]

Even if you have issues doing wheelies now..what`s gonna happen when you get past low speeds and the large wing spoiler starts making down-force ?

Hi Neal. I have already encountered issues with the spoiler. After loading on the trailer and hitting the interstate I noticed very quickly the trailer was swaying side to side. It was so bad I had to pull over to re-evaluate the load. So I changed the load and moved the hitch (adjustable) and it was just as bad as before. I finally figured out that the center part of the spoiler was the issue. It was removable so I took it out. Then I could run highway speeds 55 to 60. I have driven the trike at around 50 mph so far without the center section and have noticed no issues. But a windy day may offer different results.

 

[neal]

spoiler

Speedy, Maybe the removal of the spoiler is the next step. Put it on Craigslist..(just in time for Xmas)..some kid with a Honda Civic needs a gigantic whale-tail to go with his 8" fart-can excuse for a muffler.

 

[1dn5up]

Even if you have issues doing wheelies now..what`s gonna happen when you get past low speeds and the large wing spoiler starts making down-force ?

Cut that closeline in 1/2 , mount it on the front forks , and load it up with lead. :Shrug:

 

[Speed Demon]

Well I finally got some parts in that would work so I put them on today. I had wrong bracket issues but finally found some. I put a different wheel with a new tire on today also. Here are a few pics of the brake upgrade (no front brakes to having front brakes). New master cylinder is on the way for the front. Also I received the brake pedal mount and 3/4 bore master cylinder and will start on it right after I find out how much the braking is improvedby adding front brakes. I want to check each step and log the results. Once again thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Speed Demon]

Cut that closeline in 1/2 , mount it on the front forks , and load it up with lead. :Shrug:

Hey Frank. For now I'm gonna leave the closeline on just in case my dryer breaks !!

 

[stacebg]

guessing those back tires are wayyyyyy bigger than the stock subie wheels

that hurts the mechanical advantage a lot

 

[Speed Demon]

guessing those back tires are wayyyyyy bigger than the stock subie wheels

that hurts the mechanical advantage a lot

Funny you say that stace. I just a few minutes ago put a bid in on some 14" Buick rally wheels. Those on the trike now are 15's and while they fill the fender real nice they will rub on a turn & dip situation. So yes I am going smaller. They will however still be larger than the original subies.

 

[Speed Demon]

Funny you say that stace. I just a few minutes ago put a bid in on some 14" Buick rally wheels. Those on the trike now are 15's and while they fill the fender real nice they will rub on a turn & dip situation. So yes I am going smaller. They will however still be larger than the original subies.

Well, I got my new (old) wheels last night. Had new tires mounted & balanced today. I am uploading a video of 1 of the wheels I purchased off ebay. Jeeeez ya gotta be careful these days !!

 

[Speed Demon]

Hi guys. I am having a rough time getting the front brakes operational. First it was locating the right mounting brackets for the calipers not knowing what front end was on it other than Honda. I finally got that straightened out. Now I ordered a new chrome handle bar mounted master cylinder and the darn thing won't bench bleed, vacuum bleed, power bleed or create any kind of pressure. What am I missing here ?? I put my air operated vacuum bleeder directly over the outlet port on the m/cyl and it won't pull any fluid from it at all. And yes it has vacuum on the bleeder tip. Any suggestions ?? Anyway I really just wanted to wish all of you in the community a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year !!!!

 

[Speed Demon]

Here is the m/cyl I was trying to use. Ordered another 1 today.

 

[LarryA]

reply

speed demon.....I'm thinking that a fluid port is blocked by a missadjusted, or missassembled MC. In theory, fluid should just dribble out of the port by itself. In a auto MC you should get a little burp in the resivour when you begin to actuate the plunger, this shows that the fluid is not trapped in the bore and making pressure when not actuated. The MC should bleed just using your finger over the port,blocking it on the return stroke of the plunger. should bleed within a few strokes if working right. Ive been fighting brakes on vehicles for 50 + yrs, and will no way claim to know 1/2 of what can go wrong.....that said, good luck! hoping others with more knowledge will chime in....larry

 

[Speed Demon]

speed demon.....I'm thinking that a fluid port is blocked by a missadjusted, or missassembled MC. In theory, fluid should just dribble out of the port by itself. In a auto MC you should get a little burp in the resivour when you begin to actuate the plunger, this shows that the fluid is not trapped in the bore and making pressure when not actuated. The MC should bleed just using your finger over the port,blocking it on the return stroke of the plunger. should bleed within a few strokes if working right. Ive been fighting brakes on vehicles for 50 + yrs, and will no way claim to know 1/2 of what can go wrong.....that said, good luck! hoping others with more knowledge will chime in....larry

Hi Larry. I spent about 30 minutes trying to bench bleed (finger over port, pull lever let air out finger back over port and repeat) before going to the vacuum bleed. This is the first time in all my years of wrenching that I have seen this. Usually the m/cyl starts leaking out the ports a little even before starting to bench bleed. This m/cyl has not produced one drop of fluid from the port at any time !! Oh well, another new one will be here Friday. So I will try again. Happy Holidays !!!

 

[Speed Demon]

Engine pics

Here are a few pics of the Subie install. No changes since purchase except for fuel pump. I forgot to mention I finally got front brakes operational and was going to test them out today BUT it would not start and I am still under the weather. It has been sitting for almost a month so I guess its time to put that new master rebuild kit in the carb tomorrow since its not getting fuel into the carb. Happy Holidays all and a prosperous New Year !!!

 

[Speed Demon]

speed demon.....I'm thinking that a fluid port is blocked by a missadjusted, or missassembled MC. In theory, fluid should just dribble out of the port by itself. In a auto MC you should get a little burp in the resivour when you begin to actuate the plunger, this shows that the fluid is not trapped in the bore and making pressure when not actuated. The MC should bleed just using your finger over the port,blocking it on the return stroke of the plunger. should bleed within a few strokes if working right. Ive been fighting brakes on vehicles for 50 + yrs, and will no way claim to know 1/2 of what can go wrong.....that said, good luck! hoping others with more knowledge will chime in....larry

Hi Larry. I put the New New m/cyl on today. It immediately started dripping fluid & bench bled with no problem. It also had the " little burp " in the reservoir you mentioned. Hopefully I can test them out tomorrow.

 

[Speed Demon]

Walk around & engine running



Here are 2 videos of the engine running & a walk around showing the brake hardware installed. Went for a test ride today and while the brakes are better when I get on them hardish the front wheel will slide. OK time for new m/cyl for rear & some weight on front. I discovered today that my brand new fuel pump while audibly running was not pumping any fuel. You will see in the video a pump that is disconnected, that is the dead one. I left the old pump on when I changed to the new on just for a circumstance like this. So I just changed hoses & plugged it in. I also discovered that the throttle shaft is worn & creating a vacuum leak which shows up more in cold weather. So I did not install the carb kit as it would not fix this problem. Off to hunt a new one !!! Yippiee

 

[Speed Demon]