Harley Fluids What and Why!

[pcmikey]

Now that we are talking trike oil...My manual says to check it on the side stand...How do you check the level on a trike???Anyone follow me here??

I use my jack to tilt my tri glide about 10 degrees. I think that Wiz may have recommended it.

Mike

 

[pcmikey]

syn3 engine
Bel-Ray primary
Bel-Ray 85-140 tranny.

Runs quiet and gives good service. 2010 tri glide ultra 10,000+ miles.

Anybody else use Bel-Ray?

Mike

 

[msocko3]

Okay...I'm new to Harleys and didn't even understand what a primary was before owning one. Here's what I've gathered so far:

1. 20W50 synthetic in the motor.
2. Transmission is all over the place.
3. Primary is all over the place.

The dealership I purchased the bike from put Syn-3 in all 3. (said change at 3K on motor and 5K on both trans and primary). But he said you will start to hear "noises" when the trans needs to be changed and given my experience level, I wasn't real excited about that. They also said they only check the level of the motor oil before each ride, not the other two.

I've read things about compensators, Tri-Glides, CVO, EVO, etc. and am not sure where I fit in. I apologize but I don't know much about what I guess I've gotten myself in to. I can say that I absolutely love the bike and will come upon this maintenance soon enough.

I have an 02 Dyna Wide Glide (Frankenstein kit) with the stock motor (honestly, not even sure what size it is). From what I think I hear, 20W50 synthetic in the crankcase seems unanimous. For the trans, I like what I read about the Redline shock-proof (as in a short time, I can certainly hear a difinitive "clunk" when shifting). For the trans, I'm clueless.

This is my first Harley and want it to last for years of future enjoyment. Is there a difference between what seems like the newer bikes and mine or should I just stick with what I've been told? Thanks in advance. Randy

Since you have an 02 you don't have any compensator worries. A few years back Harley changed their recommended oil drain intervals to 10,000 miles in the primary and 20,000 in the transmission. I run Red Line shock proof in the transmission and Harley Formula+ in the primary. IMO I wouldn't run 20,000 miles with Syn3 in my transmission, when that stuff gets hot it looks like water.

 

[adaptolife]

Snarley has 64k miles; all of them with synthetic oil (except break-in). I have used syn3 until last year, when I changed over to Royal Purple 20-50. Oil temp with syn3 was 230, and 217 with RP. Had HD replace the junk cam drive with Andrews year-drive cams, and there was no noticable wear on cam lobes. I use RP in all 3 holes.

 

[10rhrk]

Snarley has 64k miles; all of them with synthetic oil (except break-in). I have used syn3 until last year, when I changed over to Royal Purple 20-50. Oil temp with syn3 was 230, and 217 with RP. Had HD replace the junk cam drive with Andrews year-drive cams, and there was no noticable wear on cam lobes. I use RP in all 3 holes.

You sound like a guy that takes care of your Harley and will listen to good advice. I don't care what anybody tells you, don't use oil that's formulated for a motor in your Transmission. We did testing at work for years on Gear oil's. Had our oil's tested at independent Labs. A gearbox needs an oil that will lubricate plus protect against backlash. Done a ton of research myself since going with Harley. I use and highly recommend Redline with shockproof for the Tranny. Too many top notch HD Tech's have recommended it also.

I can't prove it, but I've heard from several source's that Harley's Syn3 isn't fully synthetic oil?

RP, Amsoil...ect. is all good Synthetic motor oil but is overpriced and no better than Mobil1 20/50.

The Primary needs good lubrication as well because of the Compensator.
I use Rotella-T 15/40 in mine with great result's. I would not use Transmission fluid in the primary as I've read some do. JMO

 

[Phu Cat]

The thing that makes gears happy, phosphorus, does not make rings or bearings happy. The primary can get along with just about anything that doesn't make the clutch slip. The pressure between gears in a gear box are much, much higher than piston rings see. So the additives that keep rods and rings happy will quickly be ruined by the pressure gears faces exert.

I'm gonna stick with oils that are engineered for one job and one job only. Anything else is a compromise that I'm not going to subject my new $30,000 toy to.

PC

 

[10rhrk]

The thing that makes gears happy, phosphorus, does not make rings or bearings happy. The primary can get along with just about anything that doesn't make the clutch slip. The pressure between gears in a gear box are much, much higher than piston rings see. So the additives that keep rods and rings happy will quickly be ruined by the pressure gears faces exert.

I'm gonna stick with oils that are engineered for one job and one job only. Anything else is a compromise that I'm not going to subject my new $30,000 toy to.

PC

I agree with you on the transmission lube, but what about the pressure the compensator generate's? I don't think just anything that won't cause the clutch to slip is ok. I would still use a good quality synthetic lube in the primary. You get a wear scar started and you've got friction and more wear and heat...just saying.

 

[Phu Cat]

10RHRK, I don't have any stats to back this up, but I wouldnt think a priamry chain exerts anywhere near the force that gears rubbing together do.

Phu Cat

 

[eagle1]

in the 6 speed trannt ie t/g you need a heavier fluid than syn 3 in it because in the '11 &'12 t/g's have had bearing problems and many of us think/know its because syn 3 is too thin for the tranny.
use a spectro/ or red line shockproof gear oil. etc. i nthe summer i use red line 20x60 motorcycle synthetic oil and get it at jeggs.com

 

[eagle1]

in the 6 speed trannt ie t/g you need a heavier fluid than syn 3 in it because in the '11 &'12 t/g's have had tranny bearing problems and many of us think/know its because syn 3 is too thin for the tranny.
use a spectro/ or red line shockproof gear oil. etc. i nthe summer i use red line 20x60 motorcycle synthetic oil and get it at jeggs.com

 

[10rhrk]

10RHRK, I don't have any stats to back this up, but I wouldnt think a priamry chain exerts anywhere near the force that gears rubbing together do.

Phu Cat

I wasn't refering to the chain only. If you read my reply back to you, I said Compensator. Look at the function of the compensator. That sucker takes a beating!

 

[msocko3]

I wasn't refering to the chain only. If you read my reply back to you, I said Compensator. Look at the function of the compensator. That sucker takes a beating!

You are dead on the money about the compensator taking a beating. I've seen some compensator's that have seen better days, the SE unit is just barley a step above the stock unit they where putting in the touring bikes. The Triglide has come standard with the SE version of the compensator since day one. When I had mine down for a gear change I saw the wear marks at just 10,000 miles.

 

[White Knight 04]

I saw wear on my chain compensator and my cam sprockets and tensioner's at 24k on my 04 ultra when I went to gear drive at that time and it had Harley's syn oil in it!!! From there I went to Mobil 1 and seemed too be fine!!! I have been riding Harley's for 47 years now never in my experience had one that didn't clunk on a shift ...Harley's have a personality of there own !! I have always figured if they weren't making valve train noise or clunking there was something wrong with them LOL !!!!

 

[msocko3]

I saw wear on my chain compensator and my cam sprockets and tensioner's at 24k on my 04 ultra when I went to gear drive at that time and it had Harley's syn oil in it!!! From there I went to Mobil 1 and seemed too be fine!!! I have been riding Harley's for 47 years now never in my experience had one that didn't clunk on a shift ...Harley's have a personality of there own !! I have always figured if they weren't making valve train noise or clunking there was something wrong with them LOL !!!!

2004 used the old spring style came chain tensioners which was a mixed bag on how long they would last. I replaced an outer one on a neighbors 2002 which had 52,000 miles at the time, it would have gone longer but at the time it was apart so change it now. The compensator was changed to a different design starting with the 2006 Dyna and then on the rest of the TC equipped bike in 2007. The new style compensator sure made a bang when you'd hit the start button. The SE compensator which they installed in the Triglides from the beginning doesn't have the loud bang when you hit the starter, but it does show signs of not getting enough lubrication or in need of a different metal when you disassemble and inspect it.

 

[rap47]

Oh boy, another oil thread. Engine Mobil-1 20/50 Tranny Mobil-1 75/140 Primary H-D Formula+.

 

[GARYD]

I use Amsoil 20/50 in the engine
Amsoil Severe Gear 75-140 in the trans
and H-D Formula+ in the primary.
I also use Amsoil's new nonofiber media filters every other oil change. I change oil twice a year. In November I switch to Amsoil 10/40 for winter riding in Chicago - a lot easier starting. Switch back in March.
Never had any oil related problems in 30 years in any vehicle.

Bottom line is = use ANY brand name syn oil (in the correct viscocity)and filter and you won't go wrong - just change per the oil mfg's recommendations.

 

[screwball]

Syn3 in all 3 holes in both trikes. Ditto the E-Glide and Deluxe before, and the Dyna and Softail before that. And the Sportie and Softail before that

 

[GARYD]

Screwball, I'm sure you never had any problems using H-D Syn3 oil in all holes, but why wouldn't you want to use better less expensive fluids in each hole, after all they're 3 different type applications? Just asking.

I'm not promoting any single brand oil here. I and many others know that one single type fluid is not going to be the best to use for 3 different applications.
Before I switched over to Harleys I only needed one oil. Life was simple back then.

Personally I don't want to use an oil that was produced by the lowest bidder to Harley. Remember when Harley said synthetic oil was the worst thing you could put in a Harley?? Now they're saying you can use the same oil in 3 different places. Go figure

 

[Lakeman]

What is a compensator?

 

[onahog]

Iv always used castrol Syntec 5-50 engine, Hd primary formula +, redline trans.

 

[msocko3]

What is a compensator?

The compensator is the front drive sprocket on crankshaft of the engine, it has ramps and a spring pack which works to dampen pulses and sudden shock to the crankshaft. Here is a picture of a completely assembled compensator, the spring is actually stacked disk which look like cupped washers.

 

[msocko3]

Iv always used castrol Syntec 5-50 engine, Hd primary formula +, redline trans.

Formula+ is the primary fluid which seems to help the compensator live a longer life.

 

[rossn2]

2008 Road King, 2011 Electra Glide Limited, 2013 Tri Glide..


At 1000 miles service:

Amsoil, Schaffer Supreme 7000, or Redline 20w-50 in engine (unless summer time and goin on trip then it's straight Amsoil 60w)
Amsoil 75w-110 Severe Gear in Tranny
Amsoil 20w-50, Schaffers 20w-50 (7000 series), Valvoline 20w-50 (conventional motorcycle oil-black bottle) or Redline MTL in Primary. Never any clutch slippage issues on any bike..

And all oils are changed every 5k miles...:wave4:

 

[hazy]

Was just reading through this oil thread and came on some questions and comments about measuring the oil level on trikes with the dipstick. Evidently, if you have the dual markings you're fine. If you don't, try this - It'll work for any make model or year. Find out the tranny fluid capacity from your service manual. You do have a service manual right? Drain trans. Fill trans with the specified amount of fluid. Measure level with dipstick. Mark dipstick (a little scribe with a hacksaw blade will work) . Now you know what the proper level is.

 

[Sloufoot]

2008 Road King, 2011 Electra Glide Limited, 2013 Tri Glide..


At 1000 miles service:

Amsoil, Schaffer Supreme 7000, or Redline 20w-50 in engine (unless summer time and goin on trip then it's straight Amsoil 60w)
Amsoil 75w-110 Severe Gear in Tranny
Amsoil 20w-50, Schaffers 20w-50 (7000 series), Valvoline 20w-50 (conventional motorcycle oil-black bottle) or Redline MTL in Primary. Never any clutch slippage issues on any bike..

And all oils are changed every 5k miles...:wave4:

I'm also an Amsoil believer ! I have seen a lot of oils fail, but never an Amsoil product. That could happen tomorrow.... Their might be better oils, but none that I have seen that will pass all the different tests. They might excel at one thing, but fail at others. Remember a bearing, ball or roller that is running in oil submerged all the time only gets lubricated by microscopic droplets of oil while turning. The only time the Brg might be flooded is if oil pressure forces the oil through. So it takes an oil that will stay attached so to speak to the moving bearing parts even while hot.
Caterpillar uses one oil in all their gear boxes, Trans, & Engine. Including their Hydraulic system, & Automatic Trans. Their oil in differentials might differ from machine to machine, but not the rest.
I know, that isn't a motorcycle, but just as an example of one oil for everything. And running a lot higher pressures than bikes.

Just my 2c.............
Ride Safe All !:Trike1:

 

[Craigar]

2008 Road King, 2011 Electra Glide Limited, 2013 Tri Glide..


At 1000 miles service:

Amsoil, Schaffer Supreme 7000, or Redline 20w-50 in engine (unless summer time and goin on trip then it's straight Amsoil 60w)
Amsoil 75w-110 Severe Gear in Tranny
Amsoil 20w-50, Schaffers 20w-50 (7000 series), Valvoline 20w-50 (conventional motorcycle oil-black bottle) or Redline MTL in Primary. Never any clutch slippage issues on any bike..

And all oils are changed every 5k miles...:wave4:

Why not Amsoil ATF in Primary?

 

[Salty]

A soil 20/50 and 75/90 in the gear box

Amsoil

 

[Sloufoot]

Why not Amsoil ATF in Primary?

I don't think the ATF meets the specs for the clutches in Harley. Amsoil has a list ov all their oils that you can use & where. :Trike1:

 

[msocko3]

Why not Amsoil ATF in Primary?

All Triglides and 2011 and later 2 wheel touring come with the Screamin Eagle compensator which is very sensitive to the type of lubricant used. Using an ATF is a quick way of killing it, the only lubricant that gives somewhat of a longer life is Formula+.

 

[GARYD]

I am an Amsoil user - have been for over 20 years. Because I think it has the best additive package, the price is reasonably cheap and it's readily available.
I'm not knocking any other name brand oil, they are also good. I have not heard of any oil failing to do it's job when changed at the correct intervals.

Would I change brands? Of course if I had to - I've got nothing against other oils - back in the day I used just about every brand oil there was - never had a problem with them either.

I like syn oil because I don't want to be changing oil every couple months.

In the long run syn is as cheap if not cheaper then dino oil. ThumbUp