Frame failure on gl 1800 motortrike

[bud]

Hey all,
Looking for some help, I ride a 2002 GL 1800 with a motortrike kit. Been hearing a grinding noise from under the bike. Today jacked it a went under to check it out. I found on both sides of the honda frame work was broke off with a 1 inch gap between the tubes. Has anybody heard of this happening? I hope this won't become a legal battle with motor trike. I've had the the bike for almost three years now and it's a 2008 kit on it.
Thanks Bud

 

[skuuter]

Not sure if this is the issue You may be talking about, but Honda had a recall on the 2002 Honda Gold Wings (possibly some 2003s, not sure, been a while ago) for Frame Breakage.....might check with a Local Honda Dealer in Your Area.....:wtg:

 

[Cycleguy]

Hey all,
Looking for some help, I ride a 2002 GL 1800 with a motortrike kit. Been hearing a grinding noise from under the bike. Today jacked it a went under to check it out. I found on both sides of the honda frame work was broke off with a 1 inch gap between the tubes. Has anybody heard of this happening? I hope this won't become a legal battle with motor trike. I've had the the bike for almost three years now and it's a 2008 kit on it.
Thanks Bud

Frame cracks/breaks on early GL1800s are a well known problem. Honda had a recall program on the welds by the front crossmember near the lower shock mounting point. The recall specifically excluded trikes.

Cracks on the smaller tubes by the passenger floorboards have started to occur. Not a lot, but some. People's results with getting Honda to address them have been mixed, not great. And that's on two wheelers.

So, the bad possibility is that Motor Trike will point the finger at Honda, since two wheelers have had the problem, and Honda will say adding the trike stressed the frame. I hate to say it, but my amateur opinion is that this would be a hard case to win in court. Your best shot might be persistently dealing with Honda as a customer, I don't know how likely they'll be to do anything.

If you do get a new frame, note that Honda reinforced the area on 2006+ bikes, so you want that style.

Google "gl1800 frame crack" for lots more info, and many pictures.

Keep us all posted here on progress/ultimate resolution, please.

 

[katfish16]

I agree with Cycleguy on this one,, don't really see where Motortrike would be at fault for it. Honda frame cracks are nothing new. However since it is triked it is yours...
Good luck with the fix.. Hope it will work out for u...

 

[bud]

Thank you all for thr comments.

 

[tis]

Hopefully you can get a Dealer who you've dealt with in the past, and he'll recognize that it's a Honda problem & deal with it as if there is no Trike kit attached, anyhow good luck keep us posted...:GL1800:

 

[Gorilla]

I think if I were in your situation I would see if it is repairable without replacing the frame. If possible have the area re-enforced. I do not see Honda doing anything because they are going to say the conversion caused it to happen. Motor Trike is not liable for the Honda frame. I would find a good person to repair it and then I would know it is done right and ride on down the road. Sorry but that would be the least aggravating.

 

[jim peacock]

I am sorry but you have two choices,have it fixed your self are part it out,because honda will not and it is not safe to ride.
:gah::gah::gah::gah::gah:

 

[Rowdy]

Bud. Not sure where you are located but here is post on the 1800riders forum discussing the same problem. Broken Frame - GL1800RidersThere is one reply from a dealer I think that has a frame builder weld them for him. Might be an option for you.

 

[Cycleguy]

Bud. Not sure where you are located but here is post on the 1800riders forum discussing the same problem. Broken Frame - GL1800RidersThere is one reply from a dealer I think that has a frame builder weld them for him. Might be an option for you.

I'm not saying you can't have it welded, but...

This is not a job for every welding shop. The reference above refers to a race car shop, a price of about $1000, and substantial disassembly. All about right. Note that it's not a simple weld, the welder will need to engineer and make gussets to reinforce the joint. And then you've only fixed that place. Finally, you could never sell the bike unless you want to assume liability for the repair, or properly notify and ask the purchaser to explicitly release you for it.

A new frame, with all of Honda's changes (and who knows what they all are) is a little less than $2000. The extra bucks look like an attractive proposition for me. Of course the labor for that disassembly/reassembly will also likely be more.

Once again, we'll all want to know what eventually happens.

 

[bud]

Hi all,
Just to keep you all updated: We went to the dealer today and this was his offer, We will have it welded but you have to pay us $600.00 because Honda won't do anything because of the conversion kit....and motortrike won't admit any wrong doing. so here are your options.... Now all of that said here my personal take on this so far, The Honda dealer I bought this trike from, took this 2002 in on a trade as a 2 wheeler in 2007 and afer all the recalls came from honda about the frames including tubes cracking and braking and other related frame failures took this bike to Texas (motortrike) and had the bike triked. Now in 2008 I buy the trike, not knowing any the above problems about frame failures. I can't express enough how much we love our new ride and the head turner looks we get where ever we go (you all know) what I'm talking about.
Today we call motortrike and they told us about the recalls on the frame and we asked them, If you all knew there was a problem with that year and with the frame Why did you trike it? or why didn't you reinforce the area before triking it? why why why?

It would be like asking someone to run a race knowing they have a bad heart!!!! duh
Yes I am angry right now and I think I have the right.....I didn't have any idea of the frame problems, but the dealer did and so did motortrike!!!

I'm saying of of this because I want all of us to be safe! so beware!!! Keep a close eye on your frames we were lucky I might not of been here to write this. I'm glad I found the
failure before our next ride.......I'll keep you all posted...

 

[katfish16]

Bud, thanks for keeping us posted.. I guess I see the dealer as the one to be mad at... Can he provide any trail or anything to prove that he checked the bike.. He knew of all the recalls????
As for Motortrike, I would bet they assumed since it was from a dealer that all the check ups had been done... Should they double check everything??? I really don't think so.. Maybe in the future they might require something signed saying the bike has been checked for frame cracks?? For the years that there were problems..
I fully understand you being upset over this, I would be too..
You put a lot of faith in a dealer and he did not deliver....what you expected..
as far as quality...
Good luck, we all love our trikes and we all want everyone to be safe...

 

[Gorilla]

Bud ditto Katfish. Now that you have provided more info I see the dealer being the responsible party. You state they had it triked, I think they should of made sure all recalls were completed before they sold it to you. Motor Trike has no responsibility to check another companies recalls. With all this being said I would go to the dealer and see if they can do better than the $600. If you tried to fight them it would cost you more than getting it repaired. Good luck real bummer but at least you have an out. $600 is hard to swallow hopefully they can do better.

 

[Cycleguy]

Bud ditto Katfish. Now that you have provided more info I see the dealer being the responsible party. You state they had it triked, I think they should of made sure all recalls were completed before they sold it to you. Motor Trike has no responsibility to check another companies recalls. With all this being said I would go to the dealer and see if they can do better than the $600. If you tried to fight them it would cost you more than getting it repaired. Good luck real bummer but at least you have an out. $600 is hard to swallow hopefully they can do better.

While lots of people can be criticized here, it has nothing to do with the recall. The recall didn't cover this crack/break in the rear triangle, at all. The recall only covered problems with the crossmember and specifically excluded trikes. I'd be surprised if the dealer didn't do the recall required inspection of the crossmember welds on the bike before triking it. That can be determined, Honda has to keep records, and I think the VIN plate gets punched.

Honda has not in any formal way admitted there's a problem with cracks in the area Bud had them, for two wheelers or three. Although they did redesign the frame in that area in 2006. Honda can easily say the trike caused this problem. The dealer could claim two wheelers have cracked in that area, which is true. Without a very difficult and detailed engineering analysis, I doubt that any court would assign blame.

Considering the months of agony many with this problem have gone through, $600 seems dirt cheap to me. Possibly the dealer is eating some of the cost, possibly the job is being done cheap. My concern would not be with the money, it would be with the qualifications of the welder, what reinforcement they'll add, and whether they'll guarantee the work.

There's the additional problem of what to do if you ever sold the bike. Personally, I couldn't do that without full disclosure. Forget morality, if you sold the bike and the weld failed and someone got hurt, I think YOU'D be on the hook.

 

[ROAD DOG]

It would always be in the back of my mind going down the road at 80MPH will this welded up piece of crap break again ????? Put a new frame under it Or SCRAP IT ???? $5000. for a frame Or wheel chair for LIFE ????? Just my thought

 

[katfish16]

It would always be in the back of my mind going down the road at 80MPH will this welded up piece of crap break again ????? Put a new frame under it Or SCRAP IT ???? $5000. for a frame Or wheel chair for LIFE ????? Just my thought

Good point.....

 

[bud]

My thoughts: I couldn't agree more with your comment, weld it or replace it ? So which is better? Being a welder myself I know from experience all metals can be welded with proper reinforcements to out last original equipment let's face it isn't that what honda has done. And who can say that Honda's new frame design is perfect. We all hope it is but we really don't know that yet. Honda doesn't give those results out. So having the frame welded and reinenforced by a well known welder is not my concern right now.

My concerns are posted above, Yes I'm upset with the problem I'm involved with right now and I'm sure some may agree, and then again some may not. I am still angry that the dealer where We spent our $ 25,000 won't back up what he sold us. We are having the work done, and have no choice but to pay-out another $600.00 to get our trike back. It's not going to put us in the poor house, but it has made us decide not to do trust this dealer in the future. The true purpose of posting, my comments, and information is to hopefully put out there in cyber space our problem with this bike. All I can say to all of right now is RIDER BEWARE. Did I mention I have been riding a motorcycles for for 40 years now starting at the age of 16. I live to ride and ride to live.

Thanks all more later..

 

[Cycleguy]

My thoughts: I couldn't agree more with your comment, weld it or replace it ? So which is better? Being a welder myself I know from experience all metals can be welded with proper reinforcements to out last original equipment let's face it isn't that what honda has done. And who can say that Honda's new frame design is perfect. We all hope it is but we really don't know that yet. Honda doesn't give those results out. So having the frame welded and reinenforced by a well known welder is not my concern right now.

My concerns are posted above, Yes I'm upset with the problem I'm involved with right now and I'm sure some may agree, and then again some may not. I am still angry that the dealer where We spent our $ 25,000 won't back up what he sold us. We are having the work done, and have no choice but to pay-out another $600.00 to get our trike back. It's not going to put us in the poor house, but it has made us decide not to do trust this dealer in the future. The true purpose of posting, my comments, and information is to hopefully put out there in cyber space our problem with this bike. All I can say to all of right now is RIDER BEWARE. Did I mention I have been riding a motorcycles for for 40 years now starting at the age of 16. I live to ride and ride to live.

Thanks all more later..

All excellent points. It's good in many ways that you're a welder yourself, you can evaluate the work on your bike and your experienced comments about getting it welded will be useful to all of us.

I trust you won't find it offensive to point out on this board that this is a problem for many? Tens, maybe hundreds of early Honda owners have had to deal with cracks in this location by themselves. Even those (two wheelers only, as far as I know) that have gotten Honda to replace the frame with the new version have struggled with the process, waited for a long time, and some have had to pay for removal/replacement of accessories.

And the real problem is that many, probably most, owners are unaware of the problem. Anyone with a 2001-2004 should be routinely checking the area. As far as I know, no one has gotten hurt, but who knows?

Of course, having to worry about Honda's design/construction inadequacies is also unfair. One concern is how longer suitable replacement frames will be available. I have some doubts the new 2012 version will fit.

 

[Konrad]

CycleGuy said: "There's the additional problem of what to do if you ever sold the bike. Personally, I couldn't do that without full disclosure. Forget morality, if you sold the bike and the weld failed and someone got hurt, I think YOU'D be on the hook."

Might depend on the jurisdiction. When you buy "as is, where is" with ample opportunity to inspect, the buyer assumes the risk.

 

[bud]

Wish The dealer gave me that option! being a dealer he ad more knowledge then most of us don't you agree. And I agree with cycleguy I would not ever sell the bike with this problem. If after the repair proves itself crack free would I sell this trike.
But On the other hand maybe I could repaint the trike and sell it back to the dealer under a different name.....hmmmmmm that might work..

 

[bud]

Hi readers,

Bike is back on the road, we gave it a 3 hundred mile run yesterday to the maine coast other than a buzzing noise around 2500 rpm all seems very tight and and the ride hasn't been this good in a very long time. We will be conducting inspection on the frame and trike components on a regular basis from now on. I won't take nothing for granted anymore.
Ride safe and enjoy the outdoors everyone...thaks for all your comments....Bud

 

[Cycleguy]

Hi readers,

Bike is back on the road, we gave it a 3 hundred mile run yesterday to the maine coast other than a buzzing noise around 2500 rpm all seems very tight and and the ride hasn't been this good in a very long time. We will be conducting inspection on the frame and trike components on a regular basis from now on. I won't take nothing for granted anymore.
Ride safe and enjoy the outdoors everyone...thaks for all your comments....Bud

Thanks for the update. Glad it worked out for you. Would it be possible for you to post a picture (somewhere) showing what the new gusseting looks like? Or just to describe it?

 

[oldman]

There is nothing that man has or will ever build that man cannot fix

 

[bud]

Hey all, You might find this interesting....So today motortrike calls me back today to tell me that they are willing to fix the frame on my bike if I bring it to them. They know that I live in mass. and making a trip to Texas one way is 1760 miles a motel, food, gas and a rental trailer to haul the bike down there, gas @ $3.70 and maybe a hotel room in texas for two days while the bike gets torn down, welded and put back together, loaded up and same trip back home...hmmmmm what a costly expense on my wallet. Grand total for this trip: $12-$1500.
Last Week Our dealership said that for $600 they would have the bike repaired....
Not having much of a choice seems like the best way to proceed. While all of this was going on Motortrike made their offer to me. ...I explained the costs to them on both options and asked them if they would cover the costs $600 or what ever they would like to help with. He said I'll get back to you in a fews days....Well today I received my answer....

Our original offer stands bring the bike to us and we will fix it FREE!! but we will NOT give you any money to have it fixed up your way...

I know this is a long winded thread however I didn't really think I could explain whats going on with anything shorter.

I am aware of the frame problems Honda has reported however, not all frames failed. Our bike a 2002 was crack free for 52,000 miles before it was triked in Texas, and now here we are today. I'm just trying to share this problem with all motortrikers out there and what you might be faced with if this happens to you. Beware!!

Tonight we talked about selling this motortrike and looking for another trike kit. It's really hard riding something we don't trust.....good night all..

 

[Rowdy]

Hi Bud. I was wondering if your are absolutely sure the frame was crack free before triking? I have a friend that has just purchased an 02 with a new Adventure kit. I was helping him do some work on it and discovered a crack on the cross brace under the seat that ties the two sides of the frame together and also supports some of the seat weight. He called the installer and was told that they saw the crack before triking it but the way the MT kit mounts the brace was not critical. We had already discussed this and I think he was correct but my friend told him he wanted it welded nonetheless. I ran it up on ramps after this and carefully checked the rest of the welds and frame with a magnifying glass and flashlight, giving added attention to the known problem areas. No more cracks were present.

The reason for all this is it is my observation that the way the independent suspension kits I have seen mount it seems would tend to lessen the stress on the frame at all points that have been giving problems. The IRS would prevent a lot of frame stress as it would not tend to twist as much under road conditions. The lower frame rails are supported much better as well. Just thinking that maybe you had the crack an it was undetected until after triking. Anyway, good luck with your repair. Hope all works out for you.

 

[bud]

Hi Rowdy, I have been told by the dealer where we bought the trike they saw no cracks on the frame at the time of the conversion at motortrike in Texas. M/T also told me if cracks are detected on the frame they are repaired before work continues.
That's why I have concerns, this 2002 had no cracks while it was a 2 wheeler and had 52,000 miles on it. It was triked in 2008 and sometime between 08 and 11 we had noticed a big difference in the ride..I always had total control of the bike but something felt wrong or different. Nothing looked wrong from the outside and I always change the oil myself...untill one day I jacked up the bike and slid under....that's how I found the breaks. I could of found the breaks if I pulled the two side covers off..this is something I never did or at least not this year.
I wonder if there are more stress added to the frame with a solid rear end vs IRS ?????

Bud

 

[Rowdy]

I think there is definitely more stress to the frame on a solid axle. Of course this is just my opinion but I believe the IRS will absorb much more road shock with out transferring it to the frame especially on one wheel bumps or holes. My frame might be broken the next time I check it but I feel much better having the 02 with my DFT kit than I would if it were a "two wheeler". The rear of the frame is supported by the mounting of the kit and the suspension absorbs the bumps at each individual wheel. Here is a link showing the installation of a DFT kit. If you study it I think you will see what I am having such a hard time describing.Some more detailed pictures of the DFT kit installation - GL1800Riders

 

[Cycleguy]

Hi Rowdy, I have been told by the dealer where we bought the trike they saw no cracks on the frame at the time of the conversion at motortrike in Texas. M/T also told me if cracks are detected on the frame they are repaired before work continues.
That's why I have concerns, this 2002 had no cracks while it was a 2 wheeler and had 52,000 miles on it. It was triked in 2008 and sometime between 08 and 11 we had noticed a big difference in the ride..I always had total control of the bike but something felt wrong or different. Nothing looked wrong from the outside and I always change the oil myself...untill one day I jacked up the bike and slid under....that's how I found the breaks. I could of found the breaks if I pulled the two side covers off..this is something I never did or at least not this year.
I wonder if there are more stress added to the frame with a solid rear end vs IRS ?????

I've researched this as best I can. Not only do I not have any good information on that, I have no good information on ANY of the following questions, which are much simpler.

Are trikes more likely to crack than two wheelers? Are they more likely to have cracks in (pick any specific area of the frame)?

Are any brands of trikes more likely to have cracks than any other?

Does pulling a trailer increase the possibility of cracking on a two wheeler? On a trike?

And, most importantly. What percentage of bikes crack? It looks like a small minority, but how many riders have cracks that are, at present, easy to overlook? Once they start, they're not going to stop.

Bottom line. It may be unfair to blame Motortrike for this, or the dealer. Although I'd love to know exactly how many cracked frames Motortrike has repaired, as they told you they did. It is more correct to blame Honda for not properly addressing the issue, and, without solid information made available to the public that trikes cause the problem, for refusing to cover trikes at all. If they do have such information, they should publish it to warn people about triking.

Honda redesigned the frame in about 2005 to strengthen it. Clearly they know there's a problem. There are obvious new gussets in the area yours cracked in, and who knows what other changes. They should replace any earlier frames with cracks with the improved model, triked, trailered or not. It's not like they don't know many of the bikes they sell are triked or will pull trailers.

I hope you reported the cracks to NHTSA? If enough do, we may get a recall, although it may not cover trikes. At least it will be a moral victory.

 

[bud]

Cycleguy, You have so many valid points....I will continue digging deeper until I'm satisfyed...I'm not trying to chase a white elephant, but I am concerned that we the riders may be at a higher risk for failures...At this time I just don't know...I have no plans to stop riding it's in my blood (40 years now) And our choice was to change our style of riding from 2 wheels to 3 for comfort and safety! I read all these posts to learn NOT wine.

Later all

 

[GhostRider]

My 2004 with a 2008 CSC attached cracked on the lower left frame rail just past the main forging. It was a stress failure of the tube itself. No weld was involved.

I spent the past three weeks stripping the thing in prep for welding. I managed to find a welder who has experience on welding GL's and is highly recommended by several local dealers, one is a CSC dealer to boot.

We both looked over Honda's revised frame and their modifications. There isn't much that is different. Honda simply added a small 1/4" tapered plate to the bottom of the left and right frame rails immediately past the main forging.

The welder is going to emulate this action. We're guessing at the specific alloy but his experience with similar mods suggested using 6061 aluminum with the Honda recommended Lincoln 5356 TIG rod.

So it will be finished in a couple of days and I can then put things back together in our 105+ heat.

I'm not a happy camper.

This break is occurring in the exact same place on numerous GL bikes without any modification or questionable use. It's a stress failure which clearly suggest a frame design limitation. Honda is replacing frames (no recall) on bikes with this failure (some out of warranty) but using the trike modification as an excuse for not accepting any liability. I could possibly accept their argument if it were not for this failure occurring on numerous bikes in the same specific location.

It is what it is I guess. So I'll fix the thing and hope it holds together. What's a guy to do? :AGGHH:

Cheers...