Harley Fluids What and Why!
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I run Lucas 20-50 Racing only oil in the engine and primary with Lucas 75-90 extreme in the trans. All fine. I use Amsoil 20-50 in all three holes in the wife" 07 Fxst/ CSC trike. I like the Amsoil in hers because it helps cool her "96" down better than Harley oils. I may switch to Amsoil in both bikes for that reason alone.
dirtdobber
Gone But Never Forgotten
The oil that is use is determined by your engine. I prefer amsoil.
In 2 of my bikes I use amsoil 20/50 in the engine, amsoil severe lube 70/90
Primary, call me old fashion-it's only a oil bath, hd transmission/primary lube. Old style.
My trike gets all amsoil
20/50 engine
70/90 transmission, baker transmission, only 22 oz...
ATF primary. Primo clutch
In 2 of my bikes I use amsoil 20/50 in the engine, amsoil severe lube 70/90
Primary, call me old fashion-it's only a oil bath, hd transmission/primary lube. Old style.
My trike gets all amsoil
20/50 engine
70/90 transmission, baker transmission, only 22 oz...
ATF primary. Primo clutch
OK so it is another oil thread, but I'll put my .02 in...
I have found Mobil 1 V-twin 20W50 to give me very good service in my other two harleys, so it is going into my new '14 TG when it is time for the 5K change in a few weeks. Stange; the service manager at the dealer said that they don't put synth in the police fleet they service here in Florida, nothing but dino.
Going to be Redline Shockproof in the trans. Local indie carries their stuff, and it is very well thught of.
I have found Mobil 1 V-twin 20W50 to give me very good service in my other two harleys, so it is going into my new '14 TG when it is time for the 5K change in a few weeks. Stange; the service manager at the dealer said that they don't put synth in the police fleet they service here in Florida, nothing but dino.
Going to be Redline Shockproof in the trans. Local indie carries their stuff, and it is very well thught of.
2014 TG - Harley 2 free services from my dealer Classic Harley, Leesport, PA.
At 1K service they used Syn3 in all three holes. Now at 2K neutral is getting very easy to find .... put still hate the clunking.
Coming up 2.5K service they are putting Syn3 in motor, Formula+ in Primary, 85W-140 Bel-Ray in transmission.
I am sure I will be much happier.
Boborag:
Classic Harley-Davidson did the change as requested. They said this is their most popular combination and no issues with the warranty. Shifts smooth and Neutral is VERY EASY with a light push on the heel shifter.
Bob
orag:
now a wise man on this site briefly explained that the compensator did not like syn. oil or atf. so, I did a clutch change yesterday and went with dino oil in the primary with a touch (about 4 oz) of b&m trick shift as suggested. we will see.
the other holes are syn 3 in the motor and royle purple in trans.
Thanks Tom! Glad I got the Syn3 out of the Primary! I'll say one thing about the compensator .... If you hear it clunking a lot by getting on/off the throttle you know you are adding to its wear. If you are smooth and hardly ever hear that "clunk" you are adding to its longevity. I like to refer to it as a cush drive for your engine .... and I know lots of cycle beaters who have destroyed their cush drives in their rear wheels.
Wonder why Harley did not pursue using a belt drive dry Primary like I had in my 1983 FXDG?
I may look into adding some B&M trick shift next change.
Boborag:
Wonder why Harley did not pursue using a belt drive dry Primary like I had in my 1983 FXDG?
I may look into adding some B&M trick shift next change.
Bob
orag:
road with the new clutch spring and the fluid change Saturday. clutch works good. the change to dino oil in the primary made a big difference! quieter shifts and running. a little stiffer shifting but I will deal with that.
I'd like to offer my 15 years of experience from running Gulf Oil's Cincinnati's Fluid Catalytic Cracking Unit for 15 years and possibly end the discussion on which oil is the best. (Well, only because this allowed me contact with the guys that ran the lube oil department. I'm no engineer.) Naturally, synthetic, even the poorest synthetic, is better than the best dino oil. Other than that, the different additives put in today's oil are so similar there's not much difference between them. The best oil you can chose is the one that you will change on a regular basis. As you've heard so many times before, it's the cheapest insurance there is. And as for one oil making your engine run cooler, if it actually did, that company would have a lock on oil sales. There are way too many factors that affect oil temperature to consider being able to determine it ourselves without sensors to determine such things as speed, gear ratio, manual or auto trans, weight of the vehicle, drag ratio, head wind, humidity, throttle position, ambient temperature, distance continuously driven, type of tire and tire pressure, and much more.
For as long as I've been dealing with engines, and I'm 65 now, I have never seen an oil related failure. Pick an oil you like and change it regularly. You can't go wrong cause that's the best one for you.
Phu Cat
For as long as I've been dealing with engines, and I'm 65 now, I have never seen an oil related failure. Pick an oil you like and change it regularly. You can't go wrong cause that's the best one for you.
Phu Cat
headheaded
300+ Posts
mobil v-twin 20-50 in motor and primary, redline heavy shockproof in transmission.
I was told 20w50 mobil 1
A good quality Dino or Synthetic oil will do the job that meets spec just change it according to or before manufactures spec's and the old Harley motors will go for a long time. I have seen 100.000 plus mile engines on both Syn and Dino oils.
My self I prefer good old HD360 20/50 have tried others and find they work fine too but have come back to good old HD360. I also have found I don't care for the marbles rolling around in the top end sound that most synthetics cause. I have heard this sound with Amzoil, Syn3 and Mobile 1 oils. (not a wear issue with these oils at all just a sound issue, don't care for it) I don't care for Amzoils advertising at all and will not buy it again just a personal choice, it is a very good oil with that said. So for all the Amzoil guys don't rip into me thats just the way it is.
For me HD360 20/50 in engine, Formula + in Primary. Spectro 6 speed Platinum 75/140 in trany or a good quality gear oil, Mobil 1, Bel Ray, and others will do just fine.(do not care for Syn3 at all in a trany and belive it will cause wear issues in time and have seen evidence of this a few times over the years also not a fan of it in the primary either but I personaly am not a fan of Sythetics in the primary anyway)
Below answers some of the questions why good old HD360 is still used as a factory fill on bikes other than CVO models for what it's worth. This is what the MoCo says about HD-360, read lines 4 & 5 and what they say about HD-360 oil. Lines 4 & 5 answer some of the questions raised by many about Harleys HD360 conv oil. The MoCo point on# 8 has considerable value and makes a good point no matter which oil you choose to use. There will be many that still debate this though!!!!
The Following Information was provide by Harley- Davidson Service, 3rd Floor.
1. Why should I use Harley-Davidson motor oil? This is the only available motorcycle oil specially developed for Harley-Davidson motorcycle engines. It is also the only available oil tested for two years by our engineering staff on engine dynamometer stands in Milwaukee and motorcycle track tests at Talladega. And in other tests, Harley-Davidson has found it to be superior to other oils.
2. Can I use aviation oils in my Harley-Davidson? We do not recommend this, because these oils do not contain an important additive that provides good wear protection of the Harley-Davidson engine.
3. What viscosity grade should I use in my Harley-Davidson? The recommended viscosity grade for use in all temperatures is SAE 20W50 Harley-Davidson Oil. The SAE 50 grade is satisfactory in ambient temperatures of 60 deg to 90 deg F, and the SAE 60 grade is appropriate for ambient temperatures above 80 deg to over 100 deg F.
4. At what temperature will Harley-Davidson HD360 break down? This oil has been designed for use at temperatures up to 300 deg F for extended periods with no significant breakdown.
5. What oil temperature is best for my Harley-Davidson? A good oil operating temperature range is 200 deg to 240 deg F. Water condensation and acids tend to build up in the oil if the temperature is consistently below 180 deg F, and oil thickness can become marginal at temperatures above 300 deg F.
6. Does Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Oil do anything besides lubricate engine parts? Yes. Besides lubricating engine parts and preventing wear, it protects the engine from rust and corrosion, keeps the inside of the engine clean, cools engine parts and "seals in" combustion pressures, prevents foaming, permits easy starting and quick oil circulation, and reduces friction and power loss.
7. Is it true that oil never wears out? No. All motor oils wear out. During normal use, the oil molecules undergo a chemical reaction with oxygen and begin to break down; additives in the oil become depleted; and contaminants like water, gasoline, soot and dust get mixed in with the oil. Therefore, your motorcycle oil needs to be changed at the interval recommended by Harley-Davidson.
8. Can I go longer between oil changes if I put in a new oil filter? No. The filter keeps the oil free of solid matter, but it doesn't remove water, gasoline or acids. Also, it can't pinch-hit for additives that become used up. Follow Harley-Davidson's recommended intervals for oil and oil filter changes, and don't expect a new filter to extend the life of the oil.
9. Is it okay to mix Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Oil with a different brand? Harley-Davidson Motorcycle oil is compatible with other petroleum oils. However, mixing with another oil will reduce the superior engine protection of Harley-Davidson oil, so this should be done only when absolutely necessary.
10. Does it help to put in a can of additive with each oil change? No. Just as you wouldn't add sugar to a bottle of soda, you shouldn't use additives with Harley-Davidson Motorcycle oil. It already contains the right additives in the correct amounts to last between recommended oil changes. More additives won't help. In Fact, they might upset the oil chemistry and create problems you wouldn't ordinarily have. Use Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Oil and forget the extra can of additive. It's money down the drain.
For me good old HD360 20/50 has got the job done.
Take Care All,
Bill G
My self I prefer good old HD360 20/50 have tried others and find they work fine too but have come back to good old HD360. I also have found I don't care for the marbles rolling around in the top end sound that most synthetics cause. I have heard this sound with Amzoil, Syn3 and Mobile 1 oils. (not a wear issue with these oils at all just a sound issue, don't care for it) I don't care for Amzoils advertising at all and will not buy it again just a personal choice, it is a very good oil with that said. So for all the Amzoil guys don't rip into me thats just the way it is.
For me HD360 20/50 in engine, Formula + in Primary. Spectro 6 speed Platinum 75/140 in trany or a good quality gear oil, Mobil 1, Bel Ray, and others will do just fine.(do not care for Syn3 at all in a trany and belive it will cause wear issues in time and have seen evidence of this a few times over the years also not a fan of it in the primary either but I personaly am not a fan of Sythetics in the primary anyway)
Below answers some of the questions why good old HD360 is still used as a factory fill on bikes other than CVO models for what it's worth. This is what the MoCo says about HD-360, read lines 4 & 5 and what they say about HD-360 oil. Lines 4 & 5 answer some of the questions raised by many about Harleys HD360 conv oil. The MoCo point on# 8 has considerable value and makes a good point no matter which oil you choose to use. There will be many that still debate this though!!!!
The Following Information was provide by Harley- Davidson Service, 3rd Floor.
1. Why should I use Harley-Davidson motor oil? This is the only available motorcycle oil specially developed for Harley-Davidson motorcycle engines. It is also the only available oil tested for two years by our engineering staff on engine dynamometer stands in Milwaukee and motorcycle track tests at Talladega. And in other tests, Harley-Davidson has found it to be superior to other oils.
2. Can I use aviation oils in my Harley-Davidson? We do not recommend this, because these oils do not contain an important additive that provides good wear protection of the Harley-Davidson engine.
3. What viscosity grade should I use in my Harley-Davidson? The recommended viscosity grade for use in all temperatures is SAE 20W50 Harley-Davidson Oil. The SAE 50 grade is satisfactory in ambient temperatures of 60 deg to 90 deg F, and the SAE 60 grade is appropriate for ambient temperatures above 80 deg to over 100 deg F.
4. At what temperature will Harley-Davidson HD360 break down? This oil has been designed for use at temperatures up to 300 deg F for extended periods with no significant breakdown.
5. What oil temperature is best for my Harley-Davidson? A good oil operating temperature range is 200 deg to 240 deg F. Water condensation and acids tend to build up in the oil if the temperature is consistently below 180 deg F, and oil thickness can become marginal at temperatures above 300 deg F.
6. Does Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Oil do anything besides lubricate engine parts? Yes. Besides lubricating engine parts and preventing wear, it protects the engine from rust and corrosion, keeps the inside of the engine clean, cools engine parts and "seals in" combustion pressures, prevents foaming, permits easy starting and quick oil circulation, and reduces friction and power loss.
7. Is it true that oil never wears out? No. All motor oils wear out. During normal use, the oil molecules undergo a chemical reaction with oxygen and begin to break down; additives in the oil become depleted; and contaminants like water, gasoline, soot and dust get mixed in with the oil. Therefore, your motorcycle oil needs to be changed at the interval recommended by Harley-Davidson.
8. Can I go longer between oil changes if I put in a new oil filter? No. The filter keeps the oil free of solid matter, but it doesn't remove water, gasoline or acids. Also, it can't pinch-hit for additives that become used up. Follow Harley-Davidson's recommended intervals for oil and oil filter changes, and don't expect a new filter to extend the life of the oil.
9. Is it okay to mix Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Oil with a different brand? Harley-Davidson Motorcycle oil is compatible with other petroleum oils. However, mixing with another oil will reduce the superior engine protection of Harley-Davidson oil, so this should be done only when absolutely necessary.
10. Does it help to put in a can of additive with each oil change? No. Just as you wouldn't add sugar to a bottle of soda, you shouldn't use additives with Harley-Davidson Motorcycle oil. It already contains the right additives in the correct amounts to last between recommended oil changes. More additives won't help. In Fact, they might upset the oil chemistry and create problems you wouldn't ordinarily have. Use Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Oil and forget the extra can of additive. It's money down the drain.
For me good old HD360 20/50 has got the job done.
Take Care All,
Bill G
2014 Touring maintenance manual chart 1-4.
Maintenance schedule says (after 1K service) Engine oil + filter every 5K, Primary oil every 10K, Transmission every 20K.
What are your thoughts?
I'm using Syn3 in motor, Formula+ in Primary, Bel Ray 85W-140 in tranny.
Any tips / tricks to doing the oil filter with the least amount of mess????
Thanks
Boborag:
Maintenance schedule says (after 1K service) Engine oil + filter every 5K, Primary oil every 10K, Transmission every 20K.
What are your thoughts?
I'm using Syn3 in motor, Formula+ in Primary, Bel Ray 85W-140 in tranny.
Any tips / tricks to doing the oil filter with the least amount of mess????
Thanks
Bob
orag:
Harley Syn. 3.. I have it changed every 5/6 thousand miles, All 3 holes at the same time.
Makes the math easy, I just make an appointment and they do it while I Wait.. Plus the ride to the dealer is in PA 160 miles round trip, So that gives me a excuse to ride, And also make a stop across the river [Delaware] at my club in NY..
Makes the math easy, I just make an appointment and they do it while I Wait.. Plus the ride to the dealer is in PA 160 miles round trip, So that gives me a excuse to ride, And also make a stop across the river [Delaware] at my club in NY..
2014 Touring maintenance manual chart 1-4.
Maintenance schedule says (after 1K service) Engine oil + filter every 5K, Primary oil every 10K, Transmission every 20K.
What are your thoughts?
I'm using Syn3 in motor, Formula+ in Primary, Bel Ray 85W-140 in tranny.
Any tips / tricks to doing the oil filter with the least amount of mess????
Thanks
Bob
Bob they sell a special half funnel for lack of a better word that slides under the filter between the engine before you loosen the oil filter. It has a channel with a hose hooked to the bottom it that will guide the oil to a container of your choice. They have them available at the dealer it's a very handy cost effective tool to have.
Ride Safe,
Bill G
Bob they sell a special half funnel for lack of a better word that slides under the filter between the engine before you loosen the oil filter. It has a channel with a hose hooked to the bottom it that will guide the oil to a container of your choice. They have them available at the dealer it's a very handy cost effective tool to have.
Ride Safe,
Bill G
I heard that it did not work that well with a trike because we don't lean and it has no drain angle. I guess I could drive one tire up on a car ramp to get some tilt. Thanks.
Bob
orag:
2014 Touring maintenance manual chart 1-4.
Maintenance schedule says (after 1K service) Engine oil + filter every 5K, Primary oil every 10K, Transmission every 20K.
What are your thoughts?
I'm using Syn3 in motor, Formula+ in Primary, Bel Ray 85W-140 in tranny.
Any tips / tricks to doing the oil filter with the least amount of mess????
Thanks
Bob
Thats how I service them, engine 5k, primary 10k and trans 20k. The oil filter is just a PIA, I've tried lots of gadgets and still have a mess. I just suck it up and pull the filter, then clean up the mess.
Last edited by a moderator:
I find it best to punch a hole in the filter at the top (OEM filter) and use the funnel. Then I rotate the filter in the OFF direction until the punched hole is at the bottom and leave it until the filter drains down. There may be a small amount still in the filter when removing, but it is a lot better (for me) than just toughing it out and cleaning up a mess!!
Roger
You suck the oil out instead of draining it?
2014 Touring maintenance manual chart 1-4.
Maintenance schedule says (after 1K service) Engine oil + filter every 5K, Primary oil every 10K, Transmission every 20K.
What are your thoughts?
I'm using Syn3 in motor, Formula+ in Primary, Bel Ray 85W-140 in tranny.
Any tips / tricks to doing the oil filter with the least amount of mess????
Thanks
Bob
I have an oil cooler adaptor so the HD oil filter funnel will not fit all the way under the filter. I raise up the right side and then put the filter funnel under the filter as far as I can get it and punch a hole in the bottom end of the filter and let as much of the oil drain as I can, after it has drained a bit you can punch a small hole in the top end to vent it. Doesn't get it all but helps.
I use Mobil 1 & HD filter, Red Line shock proof trans and Red Line Primary. I change everything 4,000 to 5000 miles. Think I will start doing the trans at every other oil change.
Oh boy did I typo:blush:, it should have said suck it up, I'm going to fix that.
Well I guess I can't fix that, it must be carved in stone after awhile.
Just had my 1K service done and after doing a ton of reading I decided to go with Redline products, my HD dealer stocks it. 20/50 in the engine, V-Twin Primary Case Oil, and the V-Twin Transmission Oil with ShockProof. We've only got about 70 miles since the service, neutral is definitely a lot easier but I think I've got one of the noisy trannies, it still clunks and not just going into 1st gear.
2014 with 18K miles
I am now going to change my Primary fluid (Formula+) every time along with my engine oil (Syn3). That primary fluid really takes a beating.:AGGHH: I am also using 40 ounces of primary fluid (38 ounces is standard wet fill for my primary cover type) per advice of my dealers master tech.
Tranny (BelRay 85W-140) I will continue to change at every other oil change.
Bob
I am now going to change my Primary fluid (Formula+) every time along with my engine oil (Syn3). That primary fluid really takes a beating.:AGGHH: I am also using 40 ounces of primary fluid (38 ounces is standard wet fill for my primary cover type) per advice of my dealers master tech.
Tranny (BelRay 85W-140) I will continue to change at every other oil change.
Bob
Last edited:
headheaded
300+ Posts
mobil 20-50 in engine and primary, redline heavy shockproof in trans in the six speed and spectro in the five speed right now. either one is good top of the line lube.
MikeyTX
Dead animals deserve balloons...
Mobil1
20W50 engine 10W40 primary and whatever the weight is for the gear oil in the transmission. Synthetic
20W50 engine 10W40 primary and whatever the weight is for the gear oil in the transmission. Synthetic
redline fluids
I am using HD Syn just to avoid any warranty issues. I have been a fan of AMSol in my old bike but have been looking into Redline 20W50 transmission and primary fluids. The specs I have seen are equal or better then Amsoil. Anyone have any experience withe redline products?
I am using HD Syn just to avoid any warranty issues. I have been a fan of AMSol in my old bike but have been looking into Redline 20W50 transmission and primary fluids. The specs I have seen are equal or better then Amsoil. Anyone have any experience withe redline products?
MikeyTX
Dead animals deserve balloons...
You will not have any warranty issues using any oil as long as it meets the specs. There are many H-D dealers that sell and install Amsoil or RedLine products.
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