Opinions…Stage One or Stage Two for my Tri Glide this Winter…

[hydraglide]

Opinions…Stage One or Stage Two for my Tri Glide this Winter…

I know it’s still riding season, but I’m already thinking about off season upgrades for my 2021 Tri Glide.

I’d love to hear from fellow Tri Gliders that have installed either Stage One or Stage Two upgrades (or began with a Stage One then added a cam later).

If I go Stage Two I’d like to go with the torque improvement cam profile.

Also, I’m curious as to how much of a sacrifice I might see in gas mileage with either setup.

Stock isn’t bad, however I’ve found I’d like to have better response when I roll on the throttle when passing, merging, etc. No drag racing speed needs for me, those days are long gone.

That said, no worries about a Stage Two taxing my drivetrain.

i want to do this right the first time. Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[NHBAGGER]

Do you plan on using all HD parts to keep the warranty?

 

[TonkaDriver]

Check out DK Custom Products website. Threre is a lot of great info on how to put together a strong Stage 1 as well as cooling the engine temps. After that you may find that you may not need a cam and have improved mileage as well.

Kurt

 

[DK Custom Products]

I know it’s still riding season, but I’m already thinking about off season upgrades for my 2021 Tri Glide.

I’d love to hear from fellow Tri Gliders that have installed either Stage One or Stage Two upgrades (or began with a Stage One then added a cam later).

If I go Stage Two I’d like to go with the torque improvement cam profile.

Also, I’m curious as to how much of a sacrifice I might see in gas mileage with either setup.

Stock isn’t bad, however I’ve found I’d like to have better response when I roll on the throttle when passing, merging, etc. No drag racing speed needs for me, those days are long gone.

That said, no worries about a Stage Two taxing my drivetrain.

i want to do this right the first time. Thanks in advance everyone!

The most important factor in a good Stage Two is to have an Exceptional Stage One.

A good foundation, as with anything, is important.



Kevin

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

I did a stage two on my 17 and don't regret it, now with that said I didn't use all HD parts. I used a S&S 465 cam, S&S lifters, SE adjustable pushrods, upgraded HD oil pump, TTS tuner and a Fullsac Sportpipe head pipe. I already had SE Street Cannon mufflers. The S&S cam is their torque cam and it didn't disappoint. I have been putting cams in HD's for a few years so I kind of know what to expect by reading cam specs. I have always said if you are thinking about a cam go ahead and do it, why pay for two separate tunes.

 

[hydraglide]

Do you plan on using all HD parts to keep the warranty?

Yes… Most likely extended when the time comes.

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Yes… Most likely extended when the time comes.

I have a extended warranty thru Jim Palmer Motorcycle Agent and it covers cams, tuners and even trailer hitches.

 

[Highaltidude]

Yes… Most likely extended when the time comes.

SE tuner will keep your HD warranty valid (and the EPA happy)....

An aftermarket tuner can be programmed so it will flow more fuel and produce more power...

Which one you gonna run???

Chuck

 

[hydraglide]

SE tuner will keep your HD warranty valid (and the EPA happy)....

An aftermarket tuner can be programmed so it will flow more fuel and produce more power...

Which one you gonna run???

Chuck

Not sure … what are my options? In the “figure it out” stage now. I’m open to all thoughts and suggestions.

And nobody yet has discussed gas mileage effects between Stage One and Two.

I know the effect the Stage Two had on my 99’ Ultra (5 speed trans) was pretty dang significant.

With that 5 gallon tank at highway speeds over 3k on the tach into a headwind, I had to REALLY pay attention to my rapidly dropping fuel gauge :gah:

Had a few close calls!

 

[ISP-FL]

Ron, last year while camped in Illinois we ran down to Paducah (Four Rivers Harley) and had my Stage I done on my 2019 Trike. It runs a little cooler and with the tune they put on it I picked up about 2mpg. The performance is only slightly better. I realize you are up close to Chicago but Four Rivers does tons of custom engine jobs. I have two buddies that had them do the 128 kits on their trikes in the past couple of years.

 

[OLBLU]

Went with a custom auto tune on my Vance and Hines Fuelpak3 and found my mileage dropped from a total projected range of 225 miles to 210 miles. A small sacrifice for the other benefits it produced. Reduced decel pop , cooler running, feels torquier. I m also running V and H power duals , trike mufflers and the DK Customs 606 air cleaner.

For your stage 1 be sure to vent the engine to atmosphere and not back into the air cleaner. That change is very noticeable.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Not sure … what are my options? In the “figure it out” stage now. I’m open to all thoughts and suggestions.

And nobody yet has discussed gas mileage effects between Stage One and Two.

I know the effect the Stage Two had on my 99’ Ultra (5 speed trans) was pretty dang significant.

With that 5 gallon tank at highway speeds over 3k on the tach into a headwind, I had to REALLY pay attention to my rapidly dropping fuel gauge :gah:

Had a few close calls!

A great Stage I will give you better MPG than Stock, because the engine is not fighting against itself, it is running more efficiently.

The video I posted above explains that a bit, and then the video below talks a bit more about it.

Once you have a great Stage I (not a mediocre one) then if you get a torquey cam (Stage II) you should still be getting better mpg than you did in OEM condition.

When a Stage I or Stage II are not getting better MPG than OEM, one, or both, of two things have occurred.

1. It is a run of the mill Stage I that is a bad deal on its' own and is a bad foundation for everything that comes later.

and/or

2. The extra power is being played with...heavier right wrist will always cause a drop in MPG.

I've ridden my 2019 Tri Glide with an exceptional Stage I, along side Chuck who also has a 2019 Tri Glide. His Tri Glide has an exceptional Stage I, then on top of that he went all the way and has a 131 in it.

At every fill up we compared notes and we were always within 1/2 mpg of each other. Our MPG ranged from the low to the high 30's...with most of the tanks coming in around 35 mpg.



Kevin

 

[Highaltidude]

Not sure … what are my options? In the “figure it out” stage now. I’m open to all thoughts and suggestions.

And nobody yet has discussed gas mileage effects between Stage One and Two.

I know the effect the Stage Two had on my 99’ Ultra (5 speed trans) was pretty dang significant.

With that 5 gallon tank at highway speeds over 3k on the tach into a headwind, I had to REALLY pay attention to my rapidly dropping fuel gauge :gah:

Had a few close calls!

Unless your building dealer requires an SE, I'd go w a Power Vision. Just my opinion......

I like it's results as a tuner, and I like using the tuner mounted on my handle bars to monitor engine functions (temp).

I didn't go from stage I to stage II, so I can't answer your fuel mileage question.

I went from my stage I to a 131 stage IV. I have had the bike tuned for lower elevations (we moved from Colorado to Kentucky) since riding w Kevin. I now get a bit worse mileage (but a bit more power). I'm averaging 34 on longer trips. It'll dip down in the 32 range, and I've run some tanks around 36-37 when riding "less spirited".

I've got a 1 gallon can that I'll throw in the trunk if most of the ride will be where there's infrequent chances to fill.....

Your 2021 should be 6 gallons......

Your motor will run better after mods if you keep it cool. Tank lift, wings, oil cooler.... All from DK (their stuff works!!!).....

Chuck

 

[David792]

Stage II 2018 TriGlide 107

This past winter I installed a Stage I and Stage II. I did all the work myself, in my garage. I have a 2018 107.

There is a noticeable difference in torque. I am very happy with the results, but in all honesty... I really didn't need to go to the stage II. I did it because I could feel the drag when climbing hills or when I needed to pass a big truck on a two lane road.

I used all HD SE products... almost

-DK Customs 606 air cleaner with banjo bolts EBS (you will love it)

-HD Street Cannon mufflers. They are louder and deeper than stock and I think they reverberate off the pavement under the trike and also up through the body. For sure they are louder than stock.

-HD 447 torque cam with new push rods, cam bearing and new lifters

-HD super sucker oil pump (the orange one) and upgraded cam plate (the orange one)

-SE Pro Street Tuner

Total cost for parts is just shy of $3,000 (that includes the Jims Bearing Tool)

Yes, I can feel the difference but it's not overwhelming. Probably because the HD cam is a 447. No heat issues at all. Gas mileage is about the same as stock but I doubt I will ever ride over 200 miles without stopping for gas. I try to hit a station when I get down to 1/2 tank.

ADVICE: don't F with the anti rotation cuffs. Lots of chatter about the S&S cuffs but have you ever heard of a stock cuff breaking? I broke a screw on one of mine and luckily have a friend with a machine shop. He charged me over $200.

I am planning a Canada trip for August and will probably put the stock mufflers on for the trip and run a new tune. Stock pipes are almost straight through, but have some sort of sliding baffle in them.

Good luck. Remember there is lots of experts out there, but you only have to answer to yourself.

 

[hydraglide]

Went with a custom auto tune on my Vance and Hines Fuelpak3 and found my mileage dropped from a total projected range of 225 miles to 210 miles. A small sacrifice for the other benefits it produced. Reduced decel pop , cooler running, feels torquier. I m also running V and H power duals , trike mufflers and the DK Customs 606 air cleaner.

For your stage 1 be sure to vent the engine to atmosphere and not back into the air cleaner. That change is very noticeable.

Noticeable in what way? Curious…

Vent to a catch can or? Will this effect the factory warranty?

Sorry for all the questions, I’m just trying to learn all I can! :wink:

 

[Old Road Dog]

You can do a sneaky pete poor mans catch can. Just disconnect at the tee and route hose into a pill bottle with a hole in the cap for the hose and a 1/8 hole to let air ecscape. Youll be amazed at the snot thats collected.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Noticeable in what way? Curious…

Vent to a catch can or? Will this effect the factory warranty?

Sorry for all the questions, I’m just trying to learn all I can! :wink:

You can do a sneaky pete poor mans catch can. Just disconnect at the tee and route hose into a pill bottle with a hole in the cap for the hose and a 1/8 hole to let air ecscape. Youll be amazed at the snot thats collected.

Here are some photos of what has come out of catch-cans....putting this into the engine is NOT going to burn and produce power...it is going to reduce power. There's a lot more in the video below on why hot, oily, oxygen depleted air reduces power, and produces tune instability.

Kevin

 

[Highaltidude]

Vent to a catch can or? Will this effect the factory warranty?

EVERYTHING you do to a new Harley can impact the warranty......

When considering making changes, it's worth asking "why" you think HD did things the way they did....

Did they do it that way because it makes for a better, longer lasting, motorcycle???

Or did they do it that way because of government regulations (EPA)?????

Things that were done to meet regulations can sometimes be "undone" to actually improve the motorcycle, although it may increase the particulate matter put into the air.....

Some examples are:

- reducing the impact of the catalytic converter (mine fell off)

- venting the crankcase to the atmosphere instead of the throttle body intake (I use a catch can)

- increasing fuel flow via non SE programming (Power Vision)

Chuck

 

[Jack Klarich]

Here are some photos of what has come out of catch-cans....putting this into the engine is NOT going to burn and produce power...it is going to reduce power. There's a lot more in the video below on why hot, oily, oxygen depleted air reduces power, and produces tune instability.

Kevin

Kevin, read here, This is a big game changer

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/new...llegally-restricting-customers-right-repair-0

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Kevin, read here, This is a big game changer

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/new...llegally-restricting-customers-right-repair-0

This is good news, to bad it has taken so long. My dealer has always been honest and up front about not having to use strictly HD products to keep the warranty also that I could do my own first service and any after that, just keep records of products used just in case. Sadly not all dealers are on the up and up.

 

[OLBLU]

Noticeable in what way? Curious…

Vent to a catch can or? Will this effect the factory warranty?

Sorry for all the questions, I’m just trying to learn all I can! :wink:

What I noticed was the engine seemed more responsive, probably because it was no longer choking on the hot oily air and getting a cool , clean intake charge.

I went with the vent filter. Not as sexy as a catch can, but much easier to clean.

I'm afraid it will void your warranty. Mainly because Harley made a deal with the EPA to choke their engines and they won't like you undoing it.

If you only have the factory one year warranty I would get started , because how likely are you have a major failure in the first year?

 

[DK Custom Products]

Kevin, read here, This is a big game changer

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/new...llegally-restricting-customers-right-repair-0

Yes Jack, that is huge!

For years I have been saying that HD and the EPA colluded on the ILLEGAL HD warranty. But there was no apparent solution since none of us Harley owners has deep enough pockets to take on HD and the EPA in court.

But, lo and behold, looks like the FTC did it for us.

Tomorrow I am spending the entire day with the Manager of a Harley Dealership shooting videos. This will be the subject of one of the videos we record.

Kevin

 

[David792]

Stage 2 gas mileage

I just finished a 3 day ride to Lolo Pass (elevation 5,225) and Lost Trail Pass (elevation 7,000+). I camped up there and rode the Lolo Pass at least 6 times. I had to cross the Lost Trail Pass twice (up and back). My best gas mileage for the trip was 39mpg and my worst was 33 mpg. I ended up with over 900 miles of riding and I didn't try to baby it. Rode it like it was meant to ride.

The stage 2 worked flawlessly and I could power up the hills in any gear I chose. I have not emptied my DK Customs Catch Can yet. Probably later today or tomorrow and I'll post some pics of what it turned up.

All in all... If i had any apprehension about the stage 2, it's gone now. I'm glad I did it.

 

[David792]

Catch Can Fluids

Today I pulled the catch can and let it drain. This is after about 1500 miles of riding in favorable conditions. My elevation at home is 4,700' and I ride up to 7,000' regularly.

 

[RKplus10]

Yeah, that’s some nasty stuff, but you probably could make 4-5k without dumping it. Summer, I clean mine at oil change time. Winter, I catch a lot of water or condensate and clean it often. I almost wish the catch can was a little larger.

 

[DOKK]

Yeah, that’s some nasty stuff, but you probably could make 4-5k without dumping it. Summer, I clean mine at oil change time. Winter, I catch a lot of water or condensate and clean it often. I almost wish the catch can was a little larger.

I ride a lot in the winter as well and that's why I went to the filter instead of the catch can. I could fill the can up and it would be blowing on my fender within a few days of going to work and back. I have 2 filters so I can just swap and go and clean the one I remove whenever I have time.