Has anyone heard of this?

[DK Custom Products]

I don't know how this would be possible...but we received an email today, quoted below-

"I’m nor sure if you are aware, but Harley came out with a new larger oil filter for the Milwaukee 8 motor.* I bring this up today, because I changed oil on my 2020 using the new filter on Monday, and when I rode Tuesday, I thought it was hotter.* My local dealer said they were hearing it as well, so I called my engineer friend, who’s company supplies equipment to Harley and he said his temp sensor is running 30+ degrees warmer with the upgraded filter."

I cannot think of any reason that would be, nor have I heard of this from anyone else.

Anyone else have this experience, or know of any reason this could happen?

Kevin

 

[rhino 2]

I don't know how this would be possible...but we received an email today, quoted below-

"I’m nor sure if you are aware, but Harley came out with a new larger oil filter for the Milwaukee 8 motor.* I bring this up today, because I changed oil on my 2020 using the new filter on Monday, and when I rode Tuesday, I thought it was hotter.* My local dealer said they were hearing it as well, so I called my engineer friend, who’s company supplies equipment to Harley and he said his temp sensor is running 30+ degrees warmer with the upgraded filter."

I cannot think of any reason that would be, nor have I heard of this from anyone else.

Anyone else have this experience, or know of any reason this could happen?

Kevin

More filter material in the larger filter might be reducing oil flow/circulation through the oil cooler and slow some of the cooling process...:Shrug:....

 

[Halfnormal]

I second what rhino said.

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

I will stick with the standard filter.

 

[Jack Klarich]

More filter material in the larger filter might be reducing oil flow/circulation through the oil cooler and slow some of the cooling process...:Shrug:....

I second what rhino said.

I dunno, the filter gets oil on the feed side from the pump. This volume and pressure will remain a constant. If the before mentioned was a problem it should have shown up also in the Evo days. Harley then had a longer filter that fit many Evo bikes and did NOT have any problems JMO

 

[Halfnormal]

I dunno, the filter gets oil on the feed side from the pump. This volume and pressure will remain a constant. If the before mentioned was a problem it should have shown up also in the Evo days. Harley then had a longer filter that fit many Evo bikes and did NOT have any problems JMO

If the filter restricts the flow in any way, it will reduce the cooling capacity of the motor. If the pump does not receive sufficient flow, it cannot do it's job efficiently. The longer filter might not have had the flow restriction the new one has.

 

[Sidecarbill]

Size maybe deceiving. The only way to tell would be cut both filters open stretch out the filtering material And measure the square inches. Or maybe I misunderstood the question?

 

[Jack Klarich]

If the filter restricts the flow in any way, it will reduce the cooling capacity of the motor. If the pump does not receive sufficient flow, it cannot do it's job efficiently. The longer filter might not have had the flow restriction the new one has.

If this new filter proves to be more restrictive in operation, by theory the bypass valve should open to promote the oil flow. If not then yeah the engine oil temp is going to go up a lot faster. The pump will continue to pump oil til the oil pan has No oil

 

[DK Custom Products]

If this new filter proves to be more restrictive in operation, by theory the bypass valve should open to promote the oil flow. If not then yeah the engine oil temp is going to go up a lot faster. The pump will continue to pump oil til the oil pan has No oil

Jack,

The video you posted a few days ago...



It shows (around the 4:00 mark) that they did change the bypass valve on the new filter AND on the old filter. But I don't see that having that big of a difference...unless the old bypass was open most of the time, which I don't really believe was the case.

This report just does not make sense...trying to figure out how the filter could have such an effect on temperatures.

Either the folks reporting it are in error...or maybe there was a bad batch of the new filters?

Kevin

 

[Jack Klarich]

Jack,

The video you posted a few days ago...



It shows (around the 4:00 mark) that they did change the bypass valve on the new filter AND on the old filter. But I don't see that having that big of a difference...unless the old bypass was open most of the time, which I don't really believe was the case.

This report just does not make sense...trying to figure out how the filter could have such an effect on temperatures.

Either the folks reporting it are in error...or maybe there was a bad batch of the new filters?

Kevin

Yeah, The bypass valve looks ALL new compared to the other filters. It would be good to know what pressures both filters by pass at. I am not sold yet on the new filters til more data comes in and Harley tells us exactly why they changed to this new filter. Saying you can run longer between oil changes is NOT good enuff of an answer for me. I agree with you on your post, I want more info.

 

[Sunman]

My question is why did Harley change the filter in the first place? Were there reported problems with the old filter? What was the problem? If the design change was so you can go longer between oil changes, does anyone want to go longer than 5,000 miles? I have a twin cam, but I am assuming the oil change is 5,000 miles on the M8 motor, same as the twin cam? Just curious as what led to Harley changing the filter design?Sunman

 

[Wmitz]

I tried to get one a week ago, SMHD didn’t get any at the time. That said on other forums the thoughts were that The new filter increased the filtering capabilities later in the filtering cycle. With the increased volume of the new pump, maybe the smaller filter was being clogged/restrictive late in the cycle allowing more oil to bypass the filter media. I know it is for the M8 only motors. Only the engineers at HD really know, but it can’t hurt.

 

[1dn5up]

HD made the longer filter so it can hold more oil to spill all over the engine front while changing.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I hope we are not hearing a case of engine oil sumping on a 2020 model?

 

[MDO]

I'm going to stick with the K&N oil filters I'm currently using(K171B) The Mobil 1 extended service filters I used worked well for me also. The HD oil filters I have used seem to be high quality for my M8.

What I would like is a 1 quart bigger oil pan, but the price is too steep for me.

 

[ultrafxr]

I dunno for sure but I'm calling BS on the email sent to you. How can the writer possibly know unless all the variables were controlled and even when scientists do testing they sometimes don't get it right. There are so many variables I don't see how any credence could be placed in the message unless he/she has some very strong documentary evidence. Just my never to be humble opinion, lol.

 

[PosseRider]

Sounds like someone starting a load of crap. Has done the same on the hd forum with no supporting evidence.

 

[DK Custom Products]

I dunno for sure but I'm calling BS on the email sent to you. How can the writer possibly know unless all the variables were controlled and even when scientists do testing they sometimes don't get it right. There are so many variables I don't see how any credence could be placed in the message unless he/she has some very strong documentary evidence. Just my never to be humble opinion, lol.

Sounds like someone starting a load of crap. Has done the same on the hd forum with no supporting evidence.

Yeah, it makes no sense. If it was just him, I would not have given it a second thought, but he says a couple other folks he talked to said the same thing...but provided no documentation.

Was just wondering if anyone had heard or experienced this.

I'm gonna call a few mechanics and see if any of the guys I know have experienced this.

Kevin

 

[PosseRider]

Yeah, it makes no sense. If it was just him, I would not have given it a second thought, but he says a couple other folks he talked to said the same thing...but provided no documentation.

Was just wondering if anyone had heard or experienced this.

I'm gonna call a few mechanics and see if any of the guys I know have experienced this.

Kevin

Let us know what you find out Kevin. I have an appt for the 1000 mile 6/14. Was going to ask about this filter then. Thanks.

 

[ultrafxr]

Yeah, it makes no sense. If it was just him, I would not have given it a second thought, but he says a couple other folks he talked to said the same thing...but provided no documentation.

Was just wondering if anyone had heard or experienced this.

I'm gonna call a few mechanics and see if any of the guys I know have experienced this.

Kevin

Thank Kevin. I just got the new filter and just yesterday turned over 1k so I'm planning to do my initial fluid changes. Planning to use the new filter but if you should find anything with documentation I'd want to know.

 

[ISP-FL]

X2 Kevin. I was going to make appointment for a new front tire this week and pick up my oil/filter while I was there. I still have a few miles to spare so I'll hold off until you post additional information about the new filter.

 

[DK Custom Products]

I'll be making some calls today.

Kevin

 

[DK Custom Products]

I just called two dealerships and talked to some mechanics at each one. (NOT Techs)

One of them had not even worked on a bike that had the new filter. The other one had only worked on a couple that had the new filter and he had not noticed it running warmer. Neither of them had heard anything about the filters making the engine run hotter.

I also talked to a mechanic at an indie shop. He has not observed any difference in the heat on the M8's from running the old filter or the new filter. He said they all run too hot....then went on a rant about it. lol

But he did qualify that he had only had two bikes pass thru his shop with the larger (new) filter.

I spoke with another guy at a different indie shop. He had actually seen the same video that I posted earlier in this thread (that Jack originally posted on the forum). He has not installed any of the new filters...he did not like the idea of the stronger bypass valve. Theoretically it could make the engine run hotter if it was not opening up as soon.

So, I don't know what to think. 6 months from now we will all know. Either this was a bunch of hogwash that was originally emailed to me, or there will be a ton of folks reporting their bikes run hotter with the new filter.

Sorry I could not get anything 100% conclusive one way or another....but I am leaning toward hogwash on the email report.

Kevin

 

[PosseRider]

Thanks for the time you spent Kevin. I will see what happens when my 1000 mile service is done. If it seems hot, when we leave on our trip, I will change back to the K&N filter & that oil we talked about. Been seeing some good reports on it.

 

[ISP-FL]

Kind of makes you want to have a supply of the regular OEM filters that Harley has been putting on the M8 motors since they came out and skip changing over to these "new and improved bigger" ones.

I'm sticking with the same filter for now and will probably buy at least one extra when I change oil next week.

Want to add my thanks too Kevin.

 

[rhino 2]

Sorry I could not get anything 100% conclusive one way or another....but I am leaning toward hogwash on the email report.

Kevin

One thing that is 100% conclusive......As the summer rolls along the'll all run hotter new filter or not....

 

[DK Custom Products]

One thing that is 100% conclusive......As the summer rolls along the'll all run hotter new filter or not....

True that!

I don't worry about which filter to buy...I've been running the same filter for over 100k miles. Works better than any of them and saves $.

Kevin

 

[Sloufoot]

Something to consider also is the rate of oil flow through the engine. Consider the thermostat being removed a cooling system. It could work just the opposite in collecting heat and then cooling it. I know the engine oil has restrictions that were not changed. Did they change any orifices in the filter ? When forcing oil through a smaller orifice will heat the oil faster. What is the micron rating for the new filter ? Maybe slower flow through the filter and engine (Same oil pressure)

I had heard the valve change was to control the back flow after engine shutdown. Like keeping oil up in the engine for safer starts

Kevin, what is your thermometer telling you ?

Just ideas......

 

[Sloufoot]

DBL POST

 

[DK Custom Products]

Something to consider also is the rate of oil flow through the engine. Consider the thermostat being removed a cooling system. It could work just the opposite in collecting heat and then cooling it. I know the engine oil has restrictions that were not changed. Did they change any orifices in the filter ? When forcing oil through a smaller orifice will heat the oil faster. What is the micron rating for the new filter ? Maybe slower flow through the filter and engine (Same oil pressure)

I had heard the valve change was to control the back flow after engine shutdown. Like keeping oil up in the engine for safer starts

Kevin, what is your thermometer telling you ?

Just ideas......

In this video...



...it shows that the new filter has the same nominal 5 micron material that has been being used in the standard TC and M8 filter for years.

I suppose I could buy two filters (the standard & the new one) and do some temperature tests. But I don't think I am going to take that time to test some HD parts just to satisfy my curiosity...well, now that I've written that out, I am even more curious! hahaha

I have way too many irons in the fire...don't think I'll be adding that one. We'll see. If I can get all the other things on my list done, I might do it, just for grins and giggles, AND, because I am curious.

Kevin