Running hot and oil temp

[Lakeman]

I'm pretty sure I have run my trike hot (2005 Ultra Classic, Lehman conversion with 25,000 miles on it), which sux! I was in very slow traffic at night but nothing I would not think a police unit would be subjected to. I don't know why it would have done this, but this is new to me. I have the cooling fan installed and I guess it's working, you can't hear it running. I have the oil dip stick with the temp on it and I saw 267 degrees but I think got hotter. I got out of traffic and cooled it down but I could smell it and it did not want want to keep running. I think it was trying to seize up!!! The guy that I am going to use to service it is an X HD mechanic that now has his own place. He said that 267 degrees is hot, VERY HOT. I went to the Harley shop and two people told me that 267 degrees was not too hot, they said that at 285 I need to be careful and at 300 degrees I need to shut it down.<br />
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You don't shut it down when it's too hot you try to cool it down first if possible.

Anyway what oil temp do you need to be concerned about and what temp is normal? I can put up with a lot of things but not a vehicle running hot or tires that are out of balance! It sounds like it's running fine but it is about 3/4 to a qt low on oil, not sure if this is because of the temp or not. I just purchased it and the guy had always run HD syn oil in it but on the last oil change he went with the HD standard oil as he was selling it. I am going to change the oil sense it got so hot. I was going to go back to the HD syn but the guy that is going to work on it for me said HD syn oil is not the best and he suggested Amsoil so I guess this is what I'll use, any thoughts on this? I'm going to install the oil temp Gage in place of that stupid air gage so I can keep an eye on it. Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[Bikerbozo]

I run the H-D synthetic oil in my '10 Tri-glide. I was stuck in heavy traffic in "The Bronx" the other day. It got really hot but didn't make any sounds that gave me concern.
Of more interest to me, I am wondering about the oil temp gauge you are putting in. Where is it tapping into for temp.? And the air gauge isn't stupid, just developementally challenged.
Do you have an oil cooler on front? I believe that makes a good bit of difference. I'm a firm believer in all synthetic oils.

 

[msocko3]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Lakeman</strong><br />
<a href="showthread.php?p=80797#post80797" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a><br />
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<div class="message">I'm pretty sure I have run my trike hot (2005 Ultra Classic, Lehman conversion with 25,000 miles on it), which sux! I was in very slow traffic at night but nothing I would not think a police unit would be subjected to. I don't know why it would have done this, but this is new to me. I have the cooling fan installed and I guess it's working, you can't hear it running. I have the oil dip stick with the temp on it and I saw 267 degrees but I think got hotter. I got out of traffic and cooled it down but I could smell it and it did not want want to keep running. I think it was trying to seize up!!! The guy that I am going to use to service it is an X HD mechanic that now has his own place. He said that 267 degrees is hot, VERY HOT. I went to the Harley shop and two people told me that 267 degrees was not too hot, they said that at 285 I need to be careful and at 300 degrees I need to shut it down.<br />
<br />
You don't shut it down when it's too hot you try to cool it down first if possible.

Anyway what oil temp do you need to be concerned about and what temp is normal? I can put up with a lot of things but not a vehicle running hot or tires that are out of balance! It sounds like it's running fine but it is about 3/4 to a qt low on oil, not sure if this is because of the temp or not. I just purchased it and the guy had always run HD syn oil in it but on the last oil change he went with the HD standard oil as he was selling it. I am going to change the oil sense it got so hot. I was going to go back to the HD syn but the guy that is going to work on it for me said HD syn oil is not the best and he suggested Amsoil so I guess this is what I'll use, any thoughts on this? I'm going to install the oil temp Gage in place of that stupid air gage so I can keep an eye on it. Thanks for any help you can offer.</div><br />
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</div>If you smell it then its way hot, and 267 is way hot running regular Dino motor oil because it starts to break down at 250, I'd go with the Amsoil. I've run Syn3 in several of my bikes because I was able to get it cheap, until the dealer I used to do business with came under new ownership and all the good sales were ended.<br />
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I was able to score a decent price on Amsoil so I'm moving to it now. The parade fan is going to help some but its not the total solution.

Your 05 isn't the same as the newer Touring bikes 07 - and latter which shut down the rear cylinder when they become hot while stopped and idling. I'm betting what you had happing was the final stage of the heat management HD used on the earlier Delphi FI bikes which is it skip fires the cylinders. There are 3 stages, 1st is it will richen up the AFR, 2nd is it will lower the idle speed and the final phase is skip fire. By the time you reach the final phase you would swear the engine is going to blow because it wants to stall and is all sluggish, I've been there on my 06 Ultra on a couple occasions so I know how terrible it will run.<br /><br />
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You mention you didn't hear the cooling fan running? You should feel the fan pushing hot air across your right leg when it is running. If you don't have an oil cooler I'd think about getting one, you should see an average oil temp of 230 degrees with 240 - 250 max when caught in traffic. Another thing is how the bike or trike is tuned, in your case a dyno is what it would take along with a tuner such as the TTS. The reason you need the dyno is for their gas analyzer to read the AFR because you don't have O2 sensors.

 

[Ol' Grey]

267* sounds hot to me....With a 4 qt. oil capacity, being short by 1 qt. could definitely account for some increase in temp as it's one less qt. to offer any cooling effect.

As "Bikerbozo" suggested, if you don't have an oil cooler, you might consider installing one as it can normally bring the temps down by 10*-15*.......

Am guessing that the cooling fan is an add-on to your air-cooled motor, yes ? Typically, on water-cooled motors, the cooling fan will run (and you can hear it) for a bit after the bike is turned off. Not sure if your aftermarket fan has that option or not........

 

[1550vt]

You did not mention for sure that you had the "parade fan"...which will move a lot of air. If it's a Lenale fan....you really don't have much of a fan. It also may have a switch to turn it on...if that has not been mentioned already.

Like others have suggested....run synthetic. It's always amplified noise in my bikes/trikes, but I am more comfortable with it's performance. And.....run a heavier oil in these hot conditions. Running straight 50 weight is not at all uncommon in the southern states during summer months.

 

[Lakeman]

Thanks everyone. I am not sure when the oil went down so it may have been down when it ran hot or from running hot . Yes I will only use syn oil, I use Mobil 1 in my cars, trucks and motorhome. I ask the guy and he said 20 W 50. The fan is the HD unit, I think it's a Muffin Fan. It is not on a switch just the thermostat, I'm going to put it on the ACC switch in parallel with the stat. I also am going to have an oil cooler installed, should I go with one with a fan? There is a plug that is removed to install the temp sending unit, on the tank I think.

 

[Ol' Grey]

Will let the Big Twin guys offer their recommendations on an oil cooler. Mine is a simple in-line oil cooler on an older Sporty (no fan)........

"1550vt" is spot on about using straight 50W in hotter climates. We run straight 50W or even straight 60W in the summer months, 20W50 in the winter months. I don't run synth, so am not sure if it comes in straight 60W.....

Do you know that the oil level was up to snuff before this happened ? If you don't know, it might have been low beforehand, but if you know for a fact that it was at the proper level before the overheating, are you sure the oil pump is working properly ? If the "return" is not keeping up with the "feed", you definitely want to get that sorted out.

 

[1550vt]

It is normal for lots of folks to sometimes run the oil-level 1/2 quart low. This tends to improve (lessen) misting. The motor doesn't care if it's 1/2 quart low in the pan as it is dry-sump. You can easily "mist" out a few ounces of oil on a long hot day. An oil cooler is practically a must-have on any trike and there are many choices. I have always ran the old-school crash-bar system, but there are lots of good ones out there. There is a NPT plug right next to the drain plug in the pan that can be used to install a thermostat, but I never run a fan. I found those little "muffin" fans to be pretty much useless anyway. I think you will find a good oil cooler will afford a huge improvement. I usually run the Mobil 1 V-Twin synthetic, but there are lots of other good oils out there and it's a matter of owner preference.<br /><br />
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One of the very best things one can do to an older Twin Cam is install the hybrid hydraulic tensioner kit, which has the larger oil pump.<br />
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That pump alone will greatly improve oil circulation and I have never seen mine fall below 12-14 pounds of hot idle oil pressure.

You need the pressure to circulate the oil around the cooler circuit.<br /><br />
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I think I have a thermostat/switch that will screw in that plug if you want one for a really good price.

 

[KRUZR]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Lakeman</strong><br />
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<div class="message">I'm pretty sure I have run my trike hot (2005 Ultra Classic, Lehman conversion with 25,000 miles on it), which sux! I was in very slow traffic at night but nothing I would not think a police unit would be subjected to. I don't know why it would have done this, but this is new to me. I have the cooling fan installed and I guess it's working, you can't hear it running. I have the oil dip stick with the temp on it and I saw 267 degrees but I think got hotter. I got out of traffic and cooled it down but I could smell it and it did not want want to keep running. I think it was trying to seize up!!! The guy that I am going to use to service it is an X HD mechanic that now has his own place. He said that 267 degrees is hot, VERY HOT. I went to the Harley shop and two people told me that 267 degrees was not too hot, they said that at 285 I need to be careful and at 300 degrees I need to shut it down.<br />
<br />
You don't shut it down when it's too hot you try to cool it down first if possible.

Anyway what oil temp do you need to be concerned about and what temp is normal? I can put up with a lot of things but not a vehicle running hot or tires that are out of balance! It sounds like it's running fine but it is about 3/4 to a qt low on oil, not sure if this is because of the temp or not. I just purchased it and the guy had always run HD syn oil in it but on the last oil change he went with the HD standard oil as he was selling it. I am going to change the oil sense it got so hot. I was going to go back to the HD syn but the guy that is going to work on it for me said HD syn oil is not the best and he suggested Amsoil so I guess this is what I'll use, any thoughts on this? I'm going to install the oil temp Gage in place of that stupid air gage so I can keep an eye on it. Thanks for any help you can offer.</div><br />
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</div>While headed toward Denver my HD/CSC Daytona Trike with a 103 & SE255 cams was running Oil Temp between 260 and 350 on the gauge. Part of the heat I finally noticed was because of detonation, but prior to the trip it had been running about 260 to 270.<br />
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Do to running at that temp range, the left Crank seal leaked into my primary. I have since changed out the 6 row oil cooler with the Jaggs 10 row and there oil filter adapter without thermostat (recommended by Jaggs), installed the FULLSAC true Dual head pipes, and had it tuned using the TTS Master Tune.

The results are an increase of 2 MPG, and the oil temp is about 220. Needless to say, it's a more comfortable ride. Hope this helps. Ride Safe! Lastly, if you have a SERT you maybe able to upgrade it to a current version for $100.00 if yours qualifies? Contact TTS

 

[Lakeman]

Thanks Kruzr, 350* is a bunch, I would have expected more motor damage than you had. If you were running 260*-270* normally I should be safe at the 267.* My trike had 24,000 miles on it when I got it from a guy that is 82, so no telling how hot it had been run. It runs fine but I think I will have the compression checked. Wizard has been real helpful, I will have to do a few things to get the temp down.

 

[Lakeman]

I'm not sure I would run the oil filter without a stat, do you do any cold weather riding?

 

[eagle1]

red line make a 20x60 motoecycle synthetic oil. i get mine from JEGS.COM
ITS THE ONLY 60 WEIGHT OIL THAT I'VE FOUNG THATS SYNTHETIC.\
JUST A SUGGESTION

 

[1550vt]

Red Line is good stuff. While you're at it....go ahead and get some of the shock-proof heavy for the transmission. Looks like bubble-gum....so it can't be bad!

 

[Ol' Grey]

Lakeman.........Please read KRUZR'S reply again......

Temps between 260*-270* and 260*-350*......detonation = bad juju......not sure if the left crank seal went south during the 260*-270* range or the 260*-350* range, but it may or may not account for your missing 3/4-1 qt. of oil ?

After all the mods KRUZR did, he's now running at 220*, which is excellent! Temps between 190*-215* are what I'm used to seeing/hearing about for 2-wheeled Harleys. Can see where a triked out Harley could run a bit hotter, but at 220*, there'd be no complaints here. That's VERY right on!

Great info, KRUZR ThumbUp

 

[eagle1]

at home where you park the bike run a box fan on the rt. side of the bike for 15 min.
i found that this really cools the engine down quick(to the touch) just a suggestion. my '09 t/g runs 245* on a 75*day, after it fully warms up. intalled a revolution performance EFI. NO HELP . ALSO have a 6"x9" jaggs universal oil cooler in lt. crashbar area.and its
cooling alot. goos luck.

 

[Lakeman]

Eagle1 what is "Revolution Performance EFI"?

 

[Helipilot]

Check with Screwball, he has the answer. His Triglide runs cool even in 118 degree Arizona temps. With no stupid expensive mods either. His rear breaks work perfect also, I am telling you he is keeping something from all of us. He has the answers.

 

[screwball]

WOW,

Here we go again. Seems the 3 paragraph reply I typed an hour ago disappeared. Both of my Tri-Glides (an 09 and 11) run great, don't droop to one side, and don't have a heating or rear break problem. Other than the usual muffler and intake changes, and re-map of the injection, and addition of oil temp gages, the bikes are bone stock There is 23,000 miles on the 09, almost 8,000 on the 11. Wife and I have been riding Harleys for years. We deal with a great dealership (bought 6 bikes from them) who deliver a quality product, and maintain it very well. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

red line make a 20x60 motoecycle synthetic oil. i get mine from JEGS.COM
ITS THE ONLY 60 WEIGHT OIL THAT I'VE FOUNG THATS SYNTHETIC.\
JUST A SUGGESTION

Amsoil 60wt synthetic for motorcycles >>AMSOIL - Synthetic SAE 60 Motorcycle Oil (MCS)

I use Amsoil 60wt during the summer month in my 117" and switch to Redline 20/60 multi weight for the winter.