Oil pump failure. Looking for some advice.

[Dr. Joe]

So I'm toolin' down the road heading to Daytona Beach to take in some Bike Week festivities and enjoying my new TTS-100 cam with Black Ops lifters, and all of a sudden my engine sounds like a thrashing machine! A quick glance at my oil pressure gauge and it's still reading pressure but I stioll begin to slow down to get out of everyone's way. My next glance at the oil pressure gauge says it's reading zero! there's no shoulder to pull off to but there is a gas station about half a mile away and I shut the bike off as soon as I can and coast into the gas station (Phew!). I call my buddy to pick me and the bike up (sure is nice to have a buddy with a trailer) and I get it home and up on the lift and a few hours later this is what I get pulled out of the pump (50,000 miles on the engine).
All the pieces aren't here because some of them fell into the pan and I haven't taken the time to feel around in the pan yet. It's almost midnight as I'm writing this and I just got out of the shop.

I took off the oil filter and cut it in half to see if there were any metal bits in it and none that I could see. However, there were some very fine metallic-looking swirls in the oil. Likewise, no leftover bits and pieces in the cam side of the engine but, again, a few light "swirls." There is also some scoring on the very end of the shaft where the pressure gerotor sits but I can smooth that down with emery cloth as, from what I can see, the part of the shaft that the oil pump slides over is just a "gear" that spins the pump. Am I correct on this? Do I just replace this pressure gerotor assembly (PN 26281-06) or the whole pump (PN 26037) or upgrade to aftermarket? I plan to flush everything out and run some clean oil for a few minutes and drain it and then do it again until no more "swirls." Even then, I'll just go a few hundred miles and change the oil again.
Looking for some educated input before I get after it and get it back on the road and salvage some of Bike Week.
Thanks in advance!

 

[pcombe]

I would go out a limb here but I would rather have you talk to msocko3 Harley Tech Guru. He's got it all aver me when I'm in doubt that's who I ask.

Perhaps copy the message and send it to him private message?

 

[consitter]

Wow. I'm so sorry for you. Especially after only 50K miles.

I can offer no advice, only condolences.

 

[Dr. Joe]

I would go out a limb here but I would rather have you talk to msocko3 Harley Tech Guru. He's got it all aver me when I'm in doubt that's who I ask.

Perhaps copy the message and send it to him private message?

Thanks for the advice. I sent msocko3 the message.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow. I'm so sorry for you. Especially after only 50K miles.

I can offer no advice, only condolences.

Well.... it's all part of the Harley experience. After 48 years of riding these things I've learned to just roll with the punches. Only thing close to this experience is back in '78 when my cam bearing failed on my 48 Pan and fortunately one rolled under the flywheel so I couldn't kick it over. Tore it apart the next day to see what was wrong and that's when I discovered what had happened. Had it back on the road the next day. Of course the Panhead was a whole lot easier to work on and parts were cheap.

At least I was close to home and my shop when this happened!

 

[trikermutha]

maybe some miss alignment/binding of the oil pump when you had the cam out?? o rings in place torgue the bolts correct?

I liked the feuling oil pump at idle versus stock when I replaced mine.

Hopefully no engine parts in the cases

 

[grandpawj]

Dr Joe, In the weeks or days before the oil pump exploded did you notice any variation or degradation in your oil pressure? Reason I ask, my 08 Ultra Classic's oil pressure is fine for the first 40 or 50 miles then slowly drops to about 15 to 16 psi while cruising at about 2000 to 2500 rpms. When idling for downhill curves or going down the drive the pressure drops to near 0 but when I crack the throttle a little the pressure will jump up a little to near 15 psi. Should I be worrying about my pump? oh, mine is at about 27K miles.

 

[rhino 2]

Dr Joe, In the weeks or days before the oil pump exploded did you notice any variation or degradation in your oil pressure? Reason I ask, my 08 Ultra Classic's oil pressure is fine for the first 40 or 50 miles then slowly drops to about 15 to 16 psi while cruising at about 2000 to 2500 rpms. When idling for downhill curves or going down the drive the pressure drops to near 0 but when I crack the throttle a little the pressure will jump up a little to near 15 psi. Should I be worrying about my pump? oh, mine is at about 27K miles.

My 11 Tri has about the same numbers... A little higher with outside temps under 20 degrees.. And a little lower with outside temps over 60 degrees... Been that way since day one.. 36 thousand miles so far, I consider that normal.. As long as those numbers are constant..... And With out any major variations..

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

So I'm toolin' down the road heading to Daytona Beach to take in some Bike Week festivities and enjoying my new TTS-100 cam with Black Ops lifters, and all of a sudden my engine sounds like a thrashing machine! A quick glance at my oil pressure gauge and it's still reading pressure but I stioll begin to slow down to get out of everyone's way. My next glance at the oil pressure gauge says it's reading zero! there's no shoulder to pull off to but there is a gas station about half a mile away and I shut the bike off as soon as I can and coast into the gas station (Phew!). I call my buddy to pick me and the bike up (sure is nice to have a buddy with a trailer) and I get it home and up on the lift and a few hours later this is what I get pulled out of the pump (50,000 miles on the engine).
All the pieces aren't here because some of them fell into the pan and I haven't taken the time to feel around in the pan yet. It's almost midnight as I'm writing this and I just got out of the shop.
View attachment 34070
I took off the oil filter and cut it in half to see if there were any metal bits in it and none that I could see. However, there were some very fine metallic-looking swirls in the oil. Likewise, no leftover bits and pieces in the cam side of the engine but, again, a few light "swirls." There is also some scoring on the very end of the shaft where the pressure gerotor sits but I can smooth that down with emery cloth as, from what I can see, the part of the shaft that the oil pump slides over is just a "gear" that spins the pump. Am I correct on this? Do I just replace this pressure gerotor assembly (PN 26281-06) or the whole pump (PN 26037) or upgrade to aftermarket? I plan to flush everything out and run some clean oil for a few minutes and drain it and then do it again until no more "swirls." Even then, I'll just go a few hundred miles and change the oil again.
Looking for some educated input before I get after it and get it back on the road and salvage some of Bike Week.
Thanks in advance!

Im curious as to what the wave washer looked like in the oil pump?

Its possible the gearator was bad metal to start. But Im more inclined to think you had something that passed through and jammed the gear causing it to break it. If you havent, I would drain the crankcase and look very closely at the oil that comes out of the bottom of the engine.

 

[Dr. Joe]

When I put the new cams in I did so using Wiz's posted guide which means the oil pump was not removed from the cam plate and used new O-rings and kept thing clean.

After the cam install no noticeable variation of oil pressure until after the pump went south. The only thing I noticed was a slight ticking noise from one of my new Black Ops lifters.

Just the "luck of the draw" I guess. That means that I "took one for the team" and so the rest of y'all can rest easy!


By the way... Is there a way to flush all the oil from the crankcase or isn't it recommended? Would be nice to see if there is anything down there before firing it up.

- - - Updated - - -

Dr Joe, In the weeks or days before the oil pump exploded did you notice any variation or degradation in your oil pressure? Reason I ask, my 08 Ultra Classic's oil pressure is fine for the first 40 or 50 miles then slowly drops to about 15 to 16 psi while cruising at about 2000 to 2500 rpms. When idling for downhill curves or going down the drive the pressure drops to near 0 but when I crack the throttle a little the pressure will jump up a little to near 15 psi. Should I be worrying about my pump? oh, mine is at about 27K miles.

From my experience that sounds about normal after the engine heats up.

- - - Updated - - -

Im curious as to what the wave washer looked like in the oil pump?

Its possible the gearator was bad metal to start. But Im more inclined to think you had something that passed through and jammed the gear causing it to break it. If you havent, I would drain the crankcase and look very closely at the oil that comes out of the bottom of the engine.

Never drained one before. How's it done?

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Never drained one before. How's it done?

There is a dry sump drain plug at the bottom of the engine case. If it is difficult to remove you may need to apply a little heat using a small butane torch to get it to loosen up.

I would use a small clean see through disposable container you can get from the grocery store. There is a magnetic drain plug you can reinstall made by DIMPLE >> http://magneticdrainplugs.co/harleydavidson.php I have one one in my engine case and the video on how strong these magnets are is 100% correct

There will be roughly 3-4 oz of oil in your engine case

 

[Dr. Joe]

Im curious as to what the wave washer looked like in the oil pump?

Its possible the gearator was bad metal to start. But Im more inclined to think you had something that passed through and jammed the gear causing it to break it. If you havent, I would drain the crankcase and look very closely at the oil that comes out of the bottom of the engine.

the wave washer ( spring separator) looks to be in perfect shape

 

[Dr. Joe]

There is a dry sump drain plug at the bottom of the engine case. If it is difficult to remove you may need to apply a little heat using a small butane torch to get it to loosen up.

I would use a small clean see through disposable container you can get from the grocery store. There is a magnetic drain plug you can reinstall made by DIMPLE >> http://magneticdrainplugs.co/harleydavidson.php I have one one in my engine case and the video on how strong these magnets are is 100% correct

There will be roughly 3-4 oz of oil in your engine case

Great suggestion on the magnetic drain plug. Thanks

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Dr Joe, since you have the cam chest open. Do you have access to a crank run out tool? I would advise you to check the crank run out before you attempt to reinstall the oil pump and cam plate. You may have flywheels that have shifted if you find no other explanation for the broken gearator.

 

[Dr. Joe]

Dr Joe, since you have the cam chest open. Do you have access to a crank run out tool? I would advise you to check the crank run out before you attempt to reinstall the oil pump and cam plate. You may have flywheels that have shifted if you find no other explanation for the broken gearator.

Just got it done. Runout is about 3 thousands. So now I guess it's just about finding the crap in the engine, or figuring it was a bad pump. Either way, my engine is about to get a real good cleaning!

 

[trikermutha]

just wondering when you did the cams did you replace the bearings ? I am sure you did but had to ask

 

[Lee H. Mann]

I had a 2003 FLHRI with 40K that I had just put chain shoes, bearings, lifters and cams in that did the very exact same thing in front of my home.

I was just lucky.

I suspected since I neglected to use an alignment tool for the oil pump, it could have been off slightly and finally broke the pump. Anyhow I replaced it with the SE hydraulic unit that comes with a high volume pump and never had another issue.

 

[Dr. Joe]

just wondering when you did the cams did you replace the bearings ? I am sure you did but had to ask

Yup... sure did. Even went and bought the proper tools.... Can't have enough tools!

 

[trikermutha]

I am thinking oil pump alignment or run out as others have suggested.ThumbUp

or crap in the motor for cause of failure..

 

[Dr. Joe]

I am thinking oil pump alignment or run out as others have suggested.ThumbUp

or crap in the motor for cause of failure..

Wasn't runout... dialed in at only 3 thousands out. Not sure what you mean by pump out of alignment. I never had it off the cam plate so it should have been as easy on off. And looking at how the pump slides onto the shaft there is really only one way on? I'd like a bit more info on how to ensure the pump is aligned before I put the new one on.

Thanks

 

[trikermutha]

Wasn't runout... dialed in at only 3 thousands out. Not sure what you mean by pump out of alignment. I never had it off the cam plate so it should have been as easy on off. And looking at how the pump slides onto the shaft there is really only one way on? I'd like a bit more info on how to ensure the pump is aligned before I put the new one on.

Thanks

Please read on this oil pump and will help with your repair. I used this pump in the past and was very happy with its performance.
Even tho you didn't have the pump off the plate is still may have misalignment it enough to cause a binding affect to crack the pump.
Pins and turning the engine crank helps seat the crank to the oil pump.
The pins used looks like the ones on the lifter block on the evo engines.

http://www.feulingparts.com/feulinginstructions/7060.pdf