New Brake Shoes Locking Up 2004 Lehman Goldwing

[ROAD DOG]

Just wanted to touch base..... I contacted Wilwood asking them if they supplied Lehman with any of their disc brake parts back when they were being built. Their answer was the following;From previous emails with other Lehman owners, I know the 11.2” rotor is 160-8484, and we still have some for $179 each. There was also a larger 11.9” rotor, but we no longer have them. The rear caliper was a Dynapro Single, but I do not know which piston size they used.

Other than that, that's all they could offer in regards to what Lehman used but, it's a something. Of course, there are many other factors involved such as mounting to the axle, etc. The pictures in the Monarch ll manual shows a different rear axle than mine. With only knowing about the few parts available and not knowing anything about mounting for disc brakes, I'm going to keep moving forward on my drum brake situation throughout the winter. I won't be able to road test but, I'll probably change out the PCV and will go over everything I can and re-bleed. Once I'm able to road test or find something that may be obvious, I'll definitely report back here. If anyone has something else that comes to mind, please jump in. I Thank all of you here for taking the time in helping me out. I sincerely appreciate it more than words can say. Ray ThumbUp

Monarch ll Manual: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/932385/Lehman-Trikes-Monarch-Ii-Honda-Gl1800.html

Did You Ever Check The Rubber hoses ? I Thought I gave you a disc brake kit Number from Speedway Parts ? There was a story I read once about a Horse And Water, I don't remember the rest of it ?

 

[rhino 2]

Did You Ever Check The Rubber hoses ? I Thought I gave you a disc brake kit Number from Speedway Parts ? There was a story I read once about a Horse And Water, I don't remember the rest of it ?

Ahh.........You know the rest of it......

 

[Ray & Paula]

Did You Ever Check The Rubber hoses ? I Thought I gave you a disc brake kit Number from Speedway Parts ? There was a story I read once about a Horse And Water, I don't remember the rest of it ?

Yes... You did a great job leading me to Speedway along with the part numbers. I sincerely appreciate that information and haven't discarded it. As you know, I've been kicking the disc brake decision around and even more so now. I was hoping I could find the same exact kit the Lehman used on the Monarch l including all the hardware and hydraulic lines along with Lehman instruction. Of course, that limb is non-existent. Lehmans Monarch ll installation manual helped some but, didn't get into the specific's when it came to parts.

Of course, not being a mechanic per say doesn't help. On the flip side, I've done quite a bit of mechanical things through the years therefore, I do feel confident about tackling the job. If I go that route, I want to make sure of everything that's needed plus great instruction that will work with my trike.

I did check a couple short hose at the SMC. I plan on going over more once I get the system drained again.

Right now at the the following point.....:gah: Thanks again, appreciate ya! Ray ThumbUp

 

[Ray & Paula]

Ahh.........You know the rest of it......

ThumbUp

 

[Jack Klarich]

Yes... You did a great job leading me to Speedway along with the part numbers. I sincerely appreciate that information and haven't discarded it. As you know, I've been kicking the disc brake decision around and even more so now. I was hoping I could find the same exact kit the Lehman used on the Monarch l including all the hardware and hydraulic lines along with Lehman instruction. Of course, that limb is non-existent. Lehmans Monarch ll installation manual helped some but, didn't get into the specific's when it came to parts.

Of course, not being a mechanic per say doesn't help. On the flip side, I've done quite a bit of mechanical things through the years therefore, I do feel confident about tackling the job. If I go that route, I want to make sure of everything that's needed plus great instruction that will work with my trike.

I did check a couple short hose at the SMC. I plan on going over more once I get the system drained again.

Right now at the the following point.....:gah: Thanks again, appreciate ya! Ray ThumbUp

Internal hose collapse is a very real thing and happens more than you think

I had a new Napa hose bad out of the box a few years back

 

[Papa Zook]

Ray, Great information, thanks for sharing. I'm pinning this thread.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Ray, it will be a good thing once you get this brake problem behind you

Good luck and keep us informed

 

[Ray & Paula]

Hi Guy's! First, I want to Thank You for hanging in there with me!! I'll be back to hands on in a few weeks. I haven't been able to jump back in on the trike for one reason or another but, I have talked to a couple trike dealer's / installer's. Their thoughts on replacing the SMC is not to replace it since my hand test showed it working. I finally got my hands on an installation manual for the original Lehman Monarch like mine from SO Cal Trikes. It has the brake bleed procedure which is somewhat different than I received from our good friend Lee H. Mann (Jim) back in 2015 (link below). I've followed his procedure w/o any issues through the years therefore, I would think either procedure would work. The Lehman manual I just received shows the following procedure / sequence:

Front: Left Upper
Front: Right Lower
Rear: Right
Rear: Left
Anti-Dive: Left Lower Fork

Link to Jim's Procedure - Post 5
Rear: Left
Rear: Right
Front: Left Upper
Front: Right Lower
Anti-Dive: Left Lower Fork

Don't know if the Lehman Installation Manual procedure will make a difference, but I'll give it a shot.

I also came across another Honda SMC Service Bulletin Here dated December 2011. It shows on page 3 holding the SMC in a certain way for installation in which the others didn't show.

Moving on..... After looking at a Champion trike installation manual, I found that it had a pretty straight forward Honda GL1800 de-linking process. Champion did use disc brakes therefore, I'm sure the residual valve would be somewhat different since I have drum brakes. I contacted D&D Discount Motorcycles in AZ a while back to see if they could help me out with parts / process since they installed Champion Trike kits. In a nut shell, they wouldn't sell me any parts due to not owning a Champion. Champion Manual Here

My current plan; Since the SMC seems to be working from my previous test, I'm going to go over everything one more time > re-adjust the SMC per bulletin & re-measure piston > carefully re-adjust the brakes & re-bleed > Road test. If I hit another dead end, I'll re-check / check every brake line I can take apart and/or remove > Install the new SMC > Bleed > Road test. Although, I don't believe the SMC is the issue. Honestly if all fails, I would really just prefer de-linking the front / rear brakes.
I'll keep you guys posted once I complete my first road test as outlined..... I sincerely appreciate this forum and all of you that have jumped in giving me a hand for a resolution!! THANK YOU!! Ray

 

[Jack Klarich]

Sounds like a good plan Ray

 

[Ray & Paula]

Sounds like a good plan Ray

Thanks buddy....

 

[Jack Klarich]

Thanks buddy....

I will stick with you til the end Ray, we can both learn from this one

 

[Ray & Paula]

 

[Ray & Paula]

Finally..... Great News!! I've been road testing off and on over the past week with positive results! I'm now confident that I finally got past this ongoing nightmare! If you're in a reading mood, grab yourself a cup of joe or a coke......

With the bike totally off the ground, I started out this time by installing yet another new set of brake shoes. This time I went with DMC (Dynamic Friction Co.) shoes to go with my DMC brake drums. I adjusted them to the point of having 1-3/4 free wheel revolutions. I then followed up by draining the entire hydraulic system front & rear.

Once drained, I removed all the front left side rubber brake caliper lines, Anti-Dive line and the line leading to the PCV J-Block. All passed visually along with free air flow inspection from all ends. I also re-checked the SMC piston rod movement and measurement which was still dead on at 69mm.



Moving on, I removed both front calipers for piston inspection and cleaning. All looked great therefore, I lightly lubricated the pistons with brake fluid along with lubricating the pin O-rings & boots with silicone. Hopefully, it was silicone grease..... LOL.

Looking over my front wheel, I felt like I was on a roll therefore, I removed it after deciding to change out the PCV. This will help in giving me more room to remove all the front fairing cowls during the process. All in all, PCV installation wasn't a real bad adventure once I got past all the plastic and radiator. At this point, If I wanted to move forward, I would have had to remove the gas tank to inspect the buried residual / check valve. I decided not to (easy decision) therefore, I installed the new PCV and buttoned everything back up. Once I added coolant, I ran the bike until the fans kicked on..... Both Lt & Rt were up and running.









Upon re-installation of the front wheel, I re-installed both calipers giving the left one a brand new shiny caliper / SMC bracket. Pivot bearing was good along with everything else in association therfore, I threw a little grease at and moved on.

Now it was time to fill & bleed the entire hydraulic system for the umpteenth time. This time, I'm armed with the Lehman Trike OEM manual which gives their bleed sequence procedure. With another gallon on hand, I filled and bled both the front and rears with my pneumatic air bleeder. I did have to perform a bench bleed at the BJ-Bolt of the rear MC first. I followed up by manually bleeding all again twice. At this point, I decided to do one more manual bleed but, only for the rear brake pedal line. During this bleed, following the Lehman bleed sequence procedure as previously, I included the all familiar Rocky bleed with my lovely wife's help at the pedal.


My final step was re-checking my brake shoe adjustment. One thing that really stood out with these DMC shoes is that they felt arched very well to their drums. They didn't have the usual free wheel rotation rub upon initial adjustment. All of the other new shoes I've ever installed rubbed for example; 11:00 / 5:00 positions until burnished in. The DMC's were smooth and even from the get go during all adjustments. Maybe, I just got lucky with this shoe / drum combination.

Not sure how to pin point the fix due to the different changes that I made this last round;
New PCV, Different bleed sequence / procedure, DMC brake shoes and SMC / Brake caliper bracket.

My thoughts.... the new PCV. Secondly, the Lehman bleed sequence / procedure or a combination of both. Either way, I'm extremely happy to report that every road test I've taken this time around has been nothing short of awesome. Of course, I did have to re-adjust the shoes a few clicks here and there while burnishing them in. I'm now holding a straight line with a solid non-mushy brake pedal with NO lockup! After 138 miles of testing / burnishing over the past week, I feel confident that my wife and I can finally enjoy our bike.

I'd like to add, just as important as it was for me to get my ride back on the road is all of you here at TrikeTalk! I sincerely appreciate and Thank each and every one of you for your time in helping me get past this huge ongoing hurdle. As always, I've learned an immense number of things here in regards to what to look for along with different procedures to chase down and much more. You're help speaks volumes in both, yourselves as well as this forum!! Thank You & Ride Safe!! Ray

I also shared and pointed this ongoing problem with a few other forums on this long road therefore, you may see this somewhat duplicated elsewhere as well.

 

[Papa Zook]

Ray

I'd like to add, just as important as it was for me to get my ride back on the road is all of you here at TrikeTalk! I sincerely appreciate and Thank each and every one of you for your time in helping me get past this huge ongoing hurdle. As always, I've learned an immense number of things here in regards to what to look for along with different procedures to chase down and much more. You're help speaks volumes in both, yourselves as well as this forum!! Thank You & Ride Safe!! Ray

Very happy to see you back home with us Ray! Those 5 months you were AWOL left a big void!

 

[Ray & Paula]

Ray


Very happy to see you back home with us Ray! Those 5 months you were AWOL left a big void!

Sorry about that..... Glad to be back! I've been so freaking busy helping my son-in-law in building their house. The house is 165 miles away which has set me back all year. Was able to get away a few weeks to take a vacation but, unfortunately not on the bike.

Now, everything is starting to get back to normal..... It really feels good to get past this brake issue. Thanks for hanging in there with me. This forum has really helped me in moving forward in getting this accomplished. I sincerely appreciate ya for being here! Thanks again! Ray