Limp mode

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Ok electrical guru's, my buddy has a 2013 Tri Glide, and it periodically will go into limp mode. So far, he has checked and cleaned the connection that goes into the throttle body along with dialectic grease. Replaced the throttle assembly with one that came out of a working 2013 trike and checked every connection he could locate, still no joy. Found out today that the HD shop we were at will replace one pin in the throttle body connection with a brass connection. So, any ideas?

 

[Old Road Dog]

Im not a guru but ladies have called me the "Master of Sex". Ok they havnt. I think you are referring to the engine temperature maintenance ying yang? Why are we replacing throttle bodies? What does a brass pin/ connector have to do with this? Why do people always post questions starting in the middle of the situation and not at the beginning? Must we hold you down and extract teeth and fingernails with rusty old pliers?

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Im not a guru but ladies have called me the "Master of Sex". Ok they havnt. I think you are referring to the engine temperature maintenance ying yang? Why are we replacing throttle bodies? What does a brass pin/ connector have to do with this? Why do people always post questions starting in the middle of the situation and not at the beginning? Must we hold you down and extract teeth and fingernails with rusty old pliers?

Didnt replace throttle body, just the fly by wire throttle wire inside the handle bars.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Did you check for codes?

Even tho the connection @ the throttle may look good, it should be checked real close for wire fretting, this has been a real problem on the 103 engines

 

[Jack Klarich]

Steve, have a look @ this TSB, this is why I asked about codes

TBW Issues Explained by HD Service Bulletin TT418A a MUST READ

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This is some must read info for everyone that has had issues with the TBW. This is a service bulletin issued by HD on 1/7/2011 it is bulletin # TT418A: DTC's P2135 & P2101 Theory & Diagnostics. I am going to condense this some but I also believe from my past experiences with my TBW that this also would include the P1510 code.

TT418A service bulletin applies to 2008-Later Touring, Police & Trike Models

Symptoms: Driveability or Performance Concerns; Abnormal or Erratic Mechanical Operation; Intermittent or Erratic Electrical Operation.

Note: Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) circuit DTC's P0120, P0220, P0122, P0123, P0222 and P223 should take diagnostic priority over a P2135 code. If any of these TPS codes exist concurrently with the P2135, they should be investigated first using the diagnostic manual.

The TCA has two potentiometers (designated as TPS1 & TPS2) and a electric DC motor for controlling the actuation of the throttle. The two TPS sensors work opposite of each other. As the throttle plate opens , TPS1 voltage ranges from 0.0-5.0 Volts, while TPS2 voltage ranges from 5.0-0.0 volts. The sum of the two TPS voltages should always measure approximately 5.0 volts. These wire are: TPS1, pin # 37 (BN/V wire) of the ECM, and TPS2 pin #36 (BN/R wire) of the ECM

The TPS1 and TPS2 sensors should never add to more than 5.13 Volts Direct Current (VDC) or less than 4.87 VDC . A sum of voltages out of this range should register a current P2135 code.

Troubleshooting:

It is believed that FRETTING CORROSION is a major contributor of this code. A poor connection at the Throttle Control Actuator (TCA) can affect the sensor voltages reported to the ECM and this will set this DTC. As you can see from the General Information section, the sensor voltage only need to be altered by 0.13 VDC to possibly set the code.

The most common vehicles to have these symptoms are those with more than 8,000 miles (12875 Kilometers) or 103 cubic inch and larger engines. Vibration is believed to contribute to the FRETTING CONDITION.

Repair Procedure:

1. While monitoring the TPS1 and TPS2 voltages on Digital Technician 2 (DT 2), wiggle the TCA [211] and the ECM [78] connectors.

2. If the voltage changes while wiggling the ECM connector , replace the affected ECM terminals (part # 72605-08). These wires are: TPS1, pin #37 brown/violet wire of the ECM, and TPS2, pin #36 brown/red wire of the ECM.

3. If no voltage change is noted while moving the ECM connector , the connection issue could be in the TCA. Replace all socket terminals with NEW terminals (part # 72663-11, used in current production) at the TCA connector[211B].

4. BEFORE CONNECTING the TCA CONNECTOR, clean the male TCA pin terminals with a swab and alcohol, and ASSEMBLE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE.

DTC P2101

General Information: The TCA contains two potentiometers (designated as TPS1 & TPS2) and a electric DC motor for controlling a actuation of the throttle. TPS1 & TPS2 are mounted in the TCA. They are connected to the keyed shaft of the throttle plate and used to communicate the throttle plate position.

Each TPS supplies input to the ECM in response to the position of the throttle plate. The ECM activates the motor in the TCA to move the throttle plate, based on signals from the Twist Grip Sensor (TGS). When the ECM send voltage modulations to pins 2 & 3 0f the TCA to move the throttle motor, it checks fo subsequent TPS1 and TPS2 voltage changes. If it does not sense TPS changes it will set this code.

Troubleshooting: First verify that the throttle plate moves freely when engine is not running. If it does not the TCA needs to be replaced.

Poor ECM connections seem to be the most likely cause. Be aware that this issue may be aggravated by the seat pan making contact with the ECM connector. In most cases, this is caused by the installation of an aftermarket seat.

A poor connection at ECM pins #29 & 30 could cause an interruption in voltage to the throttle motor and set this code. Similarly the ECM uses voltage from pin #52 yellow/green wire to supply power used at pins #29 & 30 and could cause the same symptoms.

Repair Procedure:

Identifying the connection issues at this location may be difficult.

1. Replace all socket terminals with NEW terminals (part #72663-11 used in current production) at the TCA connector [211B].

2. BEFORE CONNECTING the TCA CONNECTOR, clean the male TCA pin terminals with a swab and alcohol, and ASSEMBLE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE​

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Thanks Jack, I printed this out and will pass it along. I will keep you posted on the outcome.

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Just an update, after my friend messed around with his 2013 trike for about 3 weeks he finally gave up and took it to the dealer. As soon as I hear anything I will post what the fix was. Just a pet peeve is that when folks ask a question then never report back what the fix is, this helps all of us.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Good info that Jack posted.

I have seen this occur on many bikes. The connection at the throttle body was a source of intermittent failure. Many times saw it after a bike had been washed or ridden in heavy rain.

It has since been fixed with a rubber boot and better connectors.

Also, it is good practice to ALWAYS use dielectric grease on all electrical connections.

Kevin

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

I believe there was a service bulletin on this to the dealers.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I believe there was a service bulletin on this to the dealers.

Per the bulletin,

[FONT=&quot]Repair Procedure:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Identifying the connection issues at this location may be difficult.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1. Replace all socket terminals with NEW terminals (part #72663-11 used in current production) at the TCA connector [211B].[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2. BEFORE CONNECTING the TCA CONNECTOR, clean the male TCA pin terminals with a swab and alcohol, and ASSEMBLE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE[/FONT]

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Ok my buddy got his trike back, apparently it was the throttle assembly. So, after speaking to him tonight he said he put a brand new throttle assembly in and the bike ran fine but no matter what he tried he could not get the codes to clear. So according to the dealer, after so many attempts to clear the codes, it has to be put on the HD machine to clear the ECM. Now don't shoot the messenger I am just relaying what he told me. The shop charged him 1 hr labor and the bike is running fine now.