High Speed Stability affected by Lift Kits?

[scooterbum46]

I know this may be a sensitive question, but does anyone else feel their TG is more "twitchy" at high speeds after raising the rear end, with the resultant decrease in caster/rake? Never really paid attention to it until trying to "fill in the corners" during Powervision Autuotune runs. Straight, flat roads, tires and shock pressure good, no side wind - 80+ Mph runs feel much more unstable than my 2014 Ultra ever did.

 

[Livin2Ride]

I know this may be a sensitive question, but does anyone else feel their TG is more "twitchy" at high speeds after raising the rear end, with the resultant decrease in caster/rake? Never really paid attention to it until trying to "fill in the corners" during Powervision Autuotune runs. Straight, flat roads, tires and shock pressure good, no side wind - 80+ Mph runs feel much more unstable than my 2014 Ultra ever did.

The only positive points we found for the lift kits were it kept you from scrapping your mufflers and made it easier to load into a trailer. Ours came off after 3000 miles and resides in a box of other misc. stuff. That was one TG back in 2012.

 

[scooterbum46]

Note this wasn't a "twisties" issue. I'm talking straight line, no cross wind high speed. The only thing close to what I've ever experienced was a 69 Camaro with super fast steering box and very little feedback. I could push the Street Glide or the Ultra beyond the century mark without the feeling that just a little too much input on the bars was going to start something ugly..

The TG just does not have that feeling of stability. I know on the 'wing conversions that they put rake kits on to ease steering effort, but I understand at the same time you get the turning radius of a school bus. I'll go back over the tire pressures, shock pressure and any chassis related possibilities.

 

[eighty80]

I will have to agree with you (46). But I am not sure if it is the lift kit or just a characteristic of the HD trike. I don't know how many on here have gone that fast for a long period of time or how often, but I have and still do.

However, I had the lift kit installed right of the showroom floor, along with pipes and 255 cams. So I can't say the touchy handle bars is from the lift kit. It also took a little to get to 100mph, but at that speed you best be paying attention.

Then came the 120R in the trike. No lift kit change, but way way over 100mph and it got there quickly. What I found is the trike seems to fight with the crown of the road, which makes sense, but instead of letting it do that, I would fight it and it took very little effort in the bars. Unlike like my heritage at 100 plus that just seems to find it's plane or groove.

I did play with the 36/24/24 set up and like it there. I am not complaining about the touchiness of the the trike. I know it's there and just adapt. Different machine. Sometimes I get off one and jump on the other back to back and remind myself which I'm on. All good!

I will also say, as much as I like speed, I more or less detuned the 120R, if you wanna call it that? It was way, way too far past 100 mph for me. So a different cam was installed to bring HP down and TQ up. Much better suited for the trike although it has nothing to do with the lift kit or handling. It will get to 100 very quickly then back off, which I luv.

So,... in the end, I think your issue is not the lift kit but more of a difference in machines at long periods of high speed.

And to add for everyone reading this, long periods at high speed for me means 100 plus for 15 to 20 miles on the freeway or turnpike. Reckless and illegal? Yes! But fun and I put no one in harms way but me.

 

[Livin2Ride]

Note this wasn't a "twisties" issue. I'm talking straight line, no cross wind high speed. The only thing close to what I've ever experienced was a 69 Camaro with super fast steering box and very little feedback. I could push the Street Glide or the Ultra beyond the century mark without the feeling that just a little too much input on the bars was going to start something ugly.. The TG just does not have that feeling of stability. I know on the 'wing conversions that they put rake kits on to ease steering effort, but I understand at the same time you get the turning radius of a school bus. I'll go back over the tire pressures, shock pressure and any chassis related possibilities.

I've found that the biggest issues with straight line performance have to do with what you have done to the front end.. Things like windshield changes or the addition of the fork mounted wind deflectors. I use 3 different windshields depending on where I'm going and the season and a set of JES wind deflectors. Every time I change the windshield I can tell the difference in the handling.

 

[Livin2Ride]

I have ridden our 09 trike as hard as I could in the twisties in PA mountains and flat out screamed down I-80 until my intercom partner was protesting with bodily harm to tender places. Our trike is lifted and it runs like a rocket sled on wheels, sorry to hear you had problems. ThumbUp ride safely fearless

P.S. I have run down 2 wheelers in the turns before amazing for even me!

I did not say it wouldn't handle in the twisties, I just don't think it handles any better that a stock setup. As for screaming down the slab the lift kit doesn't effect that one way or the other IMO. The one main reason I took the lift off and left it off was my passenger didn't like it because she felt it made her slide forward on the seat more under braking and since I wasn't feeling any great benefit I took it off.

 

[Ed Hobgood]

Anytime you make a change in ride height it will take a little off the handeling the factory made for the trike. Center of gravity is key to performance, the lower the better I say but with that being said you want to go down the road without worring about dragging something off. Changing anything will take a little time to get use to.

 

[scooterbum46]

I appreciate the responses.. Note no front end changes, I put Kevin's kit (recommended by the dealer) on about three weeks after getting the TG a year ago. We've only got about 6K on it, with the two up riding being fairly mild as far as speed, probably 60 or 65 Mph tops. The tuning runs where I first really noticed the twitchy or less stable feel are on a wide, flat 20 mile stretch of Florida backroad blacktop (won't say where, but No houses on most of the road) that's perfect for the various combinations of Rpm/Speed that are necessary to duplicate dyno conditions (looking out for hogs, of course).

This is the same trike that had the entire rear suspension off while diagnosing what turned out to be a defective drive pulley (wobbled). They went to a lot of trouble to verify alignment at the time, I put the lift on after that and went over all fasteners at that time. I get a chance though, I'll talk to them..

 

[tfdeputydawg]

Please don't leave us hangin......... Let us know what you find out for our education!
I read all the responses thus far. I find it extremely hard to accept the "handling" could change enough to cause your concern by simply adding a lift kit to your trike!

Do the math(simple triangle problems to solve) and you will find an almost nonexistent change in the steering geometry.

As for loading the tour pack heavy enough to cause this. Maybe a chunk of lead that would fill the tour pack but, the tour pack would most likely crack/break:AGGHH:
Just an opinion.

 

[3FOR2]

I have to reiterate LIVIN2RIDE's post #9. A lot of people don't realize what a windshield change can do. I put a Clearview, with a top recurve, 4" wider than stock, and a couple inches taller on a Rocket III MT. On a straight, flat, Interstate, at 75, starts a bit of wobble. At 95, it's like you're on ice. Pretty weird. Put stock windshield back on. No more wobble. Just saying...

 

[scooterbum46]

Please don't leave us hangin......... Let us know what you find out for our education!

I read all the responses thus far. I find it extremely hard to accept the "handling" could change enough to cause your concern by simply adding a lift kit to your trike!

Do the math(simple triangle problems to solve) and you will find an almost nonexistent change in the steering geometry:Shrug:

As for loading the tour pack heavy enough to cause this. Maybe a chunk of lead that would fill the tour pack but, the tour pack would most likely crack/break:AGGHH:

Just an opinion.

OK, one thing - this "aint my first rodeo", I've been riding most of my life (well over 50 years). I can tell you about stability and or lack thereof. If you want to feel lack of stability, I'll let you ride my '56 Cushman Eagle with the 18 horse V twin Briggs Vanguard at 80 Mph. As far as the TriGlide, I don't ride with a heavy keg of beer on the TourPack rack, under-inflated tires or loose head bearings. The windshield is stock, the tires aren't cupped, the lug nuts are tight and I recently waxed it. One thing I will do and she probably won't like it, is load my SO onto the bike and try a little higher speed than we normally ride, on the same road, in the same conditions. And if it's more stable, as I think it will be, then we'll have another discussion.

One other thing - why does Lehman say that more rake (6 degrees) makes the steering easier and the lift vendors say less rake (about a degree for 1.6" of body lift) makes steering easier?

 

[Sloufoot]

OK, one thing - this "aint my first rodeo", I've been riding most of my life (well over 50 years). I can tell you about stability and or lack thereof. If you want to feel lack of stability, I'll let you ride my '56 Cushman Eagle with the 18 horse V twin Briggs Vanguard at 80 Mph. As far as the TriGlide, I don't ride with a heavy keg of beer on the TourPack rack, under-inflated tires or loose head bearings. The windshield is stock, the tires aren't cupped, the lug nuts are tight and I recently waxed it. One thing I will do and she probably won't like it, is load my SO onto the bike and try a little higher speed than we normally ride, on the same road, in the same conditions. And if it's more stable, as I think it will be, then we'll have another discussion. One other thing - why does Lehman say that more rake (6 degrees) makes the steering easier and the lift vendors say less rake (about a degree for 1.6" of body lift) makes steering easier?

You need to talk to Bazooka on here.

He owns the Trike Talk Forums. He also sells a rake kit complete. His kit does a 5* rake from the stock of 2.75* triple tree.

But Zook can answer your questions the best on the subject.

When I was a kid living in Arizona my neighbor had a Cushman Eagle. I don't think it had a briggs engine tho. I had a Cushman scooter with a body. Had trouble finding an engine because the original turned counter clockwise.

 

[uppercaseJC]

Both operations shorten the trail in the front suspension. But 1.6"lift is too much rear lift. Most kits are 1.25".
You need to talk to Bazooka on here. He owns the Trike Talk Forums. He also sells a rake kit complete. His kit does a 5* rake from the stock of 2.75* triple tree.
But Zook can answer your questions the best on the subject.
When I was a kid living in Arizona my neighbor had a Cushman Eagle. I don't think it had a briggs engine tho. I had a Cushman scooter with a body. Had trouble finding an engine because the original turned counter clockwise.

If I am not mistaken the DK comfort lift raises the trike 1.25 inches at the shocks and 1.6 inches at the back of the bike??

 

[Sloufoot]

If I am not mistaken the DK comfort lift raises the trike 1.25 inches at the shocks and 1.6 inches at the back of the bike??

The lifts are referenced at the shock.

 

[desertclassic]

I got 1 1/2 inch lift at the bottom tip of the mufflers. Jim

 

[scooterbum46]

The Tri-Glide is a motorcycle, NOT a race car!!!!! If you hadn't said anything about the lift kit on, your passenger wouldn't have noticed any difference. Most of us have put the lift kit on our TG's with no issues AND better handling in the front-end as the ass-end isn't dragging! Like Kevin and others have said, tire pressure, air shock pressure, windshield and all other add-ons have a significant impact on how the TG handles. Take the damn lift kit off and sell it....you're in the (vast) minority from those that have had the lift kit installed.

Ya know, I started this thread because of a real issue and most of the replies have not questioned that, including the guy that made the kit I've got (and will keep, because I don't want to drag the E-series mufflers leaving a driveway either). Your response kinda sounds like a STFU aimed at both Livn2Ride and me,. As far as "Race Car", I ride a lot like Kevin and don't consider the speeds I was talking about as racing speeds, they're high speed cruising. I'm still looking into possible causes including a possibility the problem is inside my helmet. Weather hasn't been cooperating..

 

[scooterbum46]

Warning please lets not start to get personal here.

Remember what this forum is about. Being able to ask questions and get good answers without drama.

Also when your question has been answered an opinion has been rendered. Everyone is entitled to theirs. If you don't agree with that as the question answer again don't take it personally. We are not here to argue the differences in opinion as it usually starts getting personal.

Thank you

Gorilla

Moderator

Sounds good to me....

A couple of notes, I DO have the 1.25 kit, was quoting the body lift as stated in the literature.. Also, just occurred to check the tire pressure gauge I'm using also, shouldn't be that far off, but........

 

[Livin2Ride]

Since you are not using your lift kit, any thoughts on selling it? - Russ

No, but I offered to give it to someone on here, but they didn't take me up on it. It's the TGlideStuff kit if you are interested PM me and we'll make it happen.