Harley trike oil coolers

[riderdave]

I am currently running a Harley oil on a 2008 103 cu in ultra classic triked by MotorTrike . I was running down the interstate doing about 75 mph in 6th gear and looked at my oil temp gauge reading 286. I realize that pushing a 1125 lbs + me takes a lot , but on a 90 degree day that seemed a bit high.
I have been looking at the oil coolers that are out there, oil bud , ultra cool, jagg, etc.. Anyone have any suggestions or advice? I am running the Axtell oil pressure relief kit also.
Leaning toward the Ultra Cool because of the fan assist and 19 rows of cooling, but I am willing to listen to any advise.

Thanks , Riderdave

 

[DK Custom Products]

I ran the fan assisted Jagg oil cooler for a lot of miles on my 2011. It did a good job, quite a bit better than the stock oil cooler.

On my 2014 I have established a baseline with no oil cooler. Will be installing an Oil Bud soon, so will have some good before and after numbers.

Kevin

 

[riderdave]

I ran the fan assisted Jagg oil cooler for a lot of miles on my 2011. It did a good job, quite a bit better than the stock oil cooler.

On my 2014 I have established a baseline with no oil cooler. Will be installing an Oil Bud soon, so will have some good before and after numbers.

Kevin

Thanks for the reply. Will keep the Jagg on my short list

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

08 Roadglide with a Motortrike kit & a 124" engine. I'm using a Oil Bud oil cooler with Love Jug fans.

Oil temps on a 90 degree day I'm seeing oil temps no higher than 250. I have my oil temp sensor reading the oil temps as it leaves the cooler.

The Love Jug fans really help in slow moving traffic.

I'm running Mobil 1 Vtwin 20w50 full synthetic engine oil

 

[screwball]

I am currently running a Harley oil on a 2008 103 cu in ultra classic triked by MotorTrike . I was running down the interstate doing about 75 mph in 6th gear and looked at my oil temp gauge reading 286. I realize that pushing a 1125 lbs + me takes a lot , but on a 90 degree day that seemed a bit high.
I have been looking at the oil coolers that are out there, oil bud , ultra cool, jagg, etc.. Anyone have any suggestions or advice? I am running the Axtell oil pressure relief kit also.
Leaning toward the Ultra Cool because of the fan assist and 19 rows of cooling, but I am willing to listen to any advise.

Thanks , Riderdave

You realize that your car's coolant normal temperature is 240* Oil temperatures of 280* is perfectly OK

 

[Gorilla]

2013 Tri-Glide 110 SE motor Ultra Cool 90 degree temp in dash temp gauge reads 250.

 

[DK Custom Products]

You realize that your car's coolant normal temperature is 240* Oil temperatures of 280* is perfectly OK

I respectfully disagree. The rating of thermal breakdown by API is a farce.

Unless an oil loses 15% or more of its weight in a 1 hour period, at a certain temperature, the oil company is able to advertise that thermal breakdown is not occurring at that temperature.

What this means is that if an oil is kept at 300* for one hour and loses 10% of it's weight via vaporization or "volatilization" they can advertise that it has not begun to have thermal breakdown at 300*. :xzqxz: When in fact it began thermal breakdown the minute it starting vaporizing even 1/2 of 1% of its weight.

The reality is that most Synthetics begin vaporizing at around 280*, and most conventionals around 270*.

Since temp readings on our HD's are not taken at the point where the oil is the hottest, the temp reading of 250* is most likely reflecting anywhere between a 270* - 300* temp of the oil at its hottest point in the engine.

Adding to the above, quite apart from vaporization, is the fact that most folks are running a 20W50 oil. 20W50 oil is a straight 20 weight oil that has viscosity modifiers in it. These modifiers make the oil less fluid/more viscous the hotter they get. Problem is that too much heat cripples these viscosity modifiers so they no longer fully function to make the oil more viscous when heated up.

So at 280* the oil is suffering thermal breakdown AND the VM's are no longer as effective at mimicking a heavier weight oil, so when you need it most, you have an effective 25, 30 or 40 weight oil, instead of the 50 or 60 weight oil that your HD manual calls for in warmer ambient temps.

Kevin

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

I respectfully disagree. The rating of thermal breakdown by API is a farce.

Unless an oil loses 15% or more of its weight in a 1 hour period, at a certain temperature, the oil company is able to advertise that thermal breakdown is not occurring at that temperature.

What this means is that if an oil is kept at 300* for one hour and loses 10% of it's weight via vaporization or "volatilization" they can advertise that it has not begun to have thermal breakdown at 300*. :xzqxz: When in fact it began thermal breakdown the minute it starting vaporizing even 1/2 of 1% of its weight.

The reality is that most Synthetics begin vaporizing at around 280*, and most conventionals around 270*.

Since temp readings on our HD's are not taken at the point where the oil is the hottest, the temp reading of 250* is most likely reflecting anywhere between a 270* - 300* temp of the oil at its hottest point in the engine.

Adding to the above, quite apart from vaporization, is the fact that most folks are running a 20W50 oil. 20W50 oil is a straight 20 weight oil that has viscosity modifiers in it. These modifiers make the oil less fluid/more viscous the hotter they get. Problem is that too much heat cripples these viscosity modifiers so they no longer fully function to make the oil more viscous when heated up.

So at 280* the oil is suffering thermal breakdown AND the VM's are no longer as effective at mimicking a heavier weight oil, so when you need it most, you have an effective 25, 30 or 40 weight oil, instead of the 50 or 60 weight oil that your HD manual calls for in warmer ambient temps.

Kevin

Your off on your assessment with temps. Synthetic oil rating for thermal breakdown is done in Celsius not Fahrenheit.

Additionally synthetic oil base stock has molecules that are all the same size. Dino oil has different sized molecules which tend to break down under high heat or heat stress.

Any oil used for VTwins should have a high zinc and phosphorus rating.

These additives help with lubricating the engine and resist thermal breakdown.

Any racing made will have these high counts of additives.

I found Mobil1 has the highest zinc and phosphorus amounts of all oils for VTwins.

Dino oil Brad Penn 20w 50 would be a good choice beyond HD 360 20w 50

 

[iaff84]

I use a Jagg. After running out a full tank of gas on interstate (70 - 75), my oil temps will be in 235 range on a hot humid day at the end of that leg. Head temps will be 250 -260. It cools quickly while I gas up. A tank run on highway at 60 - 65 on hot humid days / Oil temps 220 range, head temps 240. I just had to know so I tested till I now feel comfortable about it.
I run the Wards fan, Find it helps with both head and oil temps up to 70 MPH. (helps a whole lot more around town and on two lane roads)
Has been allot of "cussing" and discussing on what different people do and do not do to these TGs about heat. This TG is mine and I have it the way I like it for the way I ride it. No one cure-all for all people.
Dennis

 

[arnie]

I ran all over out west the last 2 yrs on my 11 triglide & never seen temps over 260. But i did remove the thermostat in the cooler.I'm heading out west again in a couple wks on my 14, so it'll be interesting to see what i'll get for temps on it with no cooler.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Your off on your assessment with temps. Synthetic oil rating for thermal breakdown is done in Celsius not Fahrenheit.

Additionally synthetic oil base stock has molecules that are all the same size. Dino oil has different sized molecules which tend to break down under high heat or heat stress.

Any oil used for VTwins should have a high zinc and phosphorus rating. These additives help with lubricating the engine and resist thermal breakdown.

Any racing made will have these high counts of additives.

I found Mobil1 has the highest zinc and phosphorus amounts of all oils for VTwins.

Dino oil Brad Penn 20w 50 would be a good choice beyond HD 360 20w 50

Everything you said may be true, and I don't see where any of it contradicts what I posted.

Possibly the conclusions one may from what I said and what you said would be different though.

I am so far behind in some of the things I want to do...lol, I still have not posted the results of my testing wires back over 8 months ago....All that I stated in my post is a quick synopsis of half dozen actual tests of different oils. One day, when I get a "round tuit", I will get a complete report with full test results posted up.

 

[Geezzer Glide]

Mine is a 2011 Harley Tri Glide stock 103 with High flow air breather, cat removed, SE 98B mufflers and tuned with a V&H Fuel Pak. The hottest mine has ever been is 250 degrees and its not unusual to have temps in the high 90's here in Nebraska during the summer. Using the Harley oil temp gauge mounted in place of the factory air temp gauge. But then we all know that any gauge is at best a rough estimate.
Dan

 

[DK Custom Products]

This TG is mine and I have it the way I like it for the way I ride it. No one cure-all for all people.
Dennis

100% agree, everyone has different standards that they are satisfied with, and different methods to get there. ThumbUp

 

[geezerglide11441]

I use a Jagg. After running out a full tank of gas on interstate (70 - 75), my oil temps will be in 235 range on a hot humid day at the end of that leg. Head temps will be 250 -260. It cools quickly while I gas up. A tank run on highway at 60 - 65 on hot humid days / Oil temps 220 range, head temps 240. I just had to know so I tested till I now feel comfortable about it.
I run the Wards fan, Find it helps with both head and oil temps up to 70 MPH. (helps a whole lot more around town and on two lane roads)
Has been allot of "cussing" and discussing on what different people do and do not do to these TGs about heat. This TG is mine and I have it the way I like it for the way I ride it. No one cure-all for all people.
Dennis

I whole heartedly agree!!:Agree:epper:

 

[screwball]

I also agree.

I also think that new riders shouldn't be panicked into buying lots of stuff because "all" the other trike riders have added: fans, oil coolers, fan assisted oil coolers, headers, lifts, crotch coolers, floor board extenders, de-catted head pipes, cams, anti-buffeting wind blocks, etc. when they haven't even ridden the trike the first time.

Granted, it is their money and they should spend it anyway they like. I've received a couple of PM's here and on FB about the NEED for all this stuff. All I can say is my '09 has 40,000+ miles, gone through 9 states, 8,000 feet above sea level to below sea level. 19* to 119* and she just keeps on running. I have fan assisted nothing, no burned legs (I wear shorts in the summer) and the trike has never gone into overheat mode.

I did take off the lowers because I think they are ugly and serve no purpose out west, and I also don't carry a ton of 'extra' stuff in the trunk and tour pack. I ride it like I stole it, rarely use reverse. Since I screwed up the breaks riding with the parking break on, I don't use that much anymore. (See, I admitted it). The bottoms of my mufflers aren't flat because I think before going up or down driveways or over speed bumps.

 

[riderdave]

I ran the fan assisted Jagg oil cooler for a lot of miles on my 2011. It did a good job, quite a bit better than the stock oil cooler.

On my 2014 I have established a baseline with no oil cooler. Will be installing an Oil Bud soon, so will have some good before and after numbers.

Kevin

I use a Jagg. After running out a full tank of gas on interstate (70 - 75), my oil temps will be in 235 range on a hot humid day at the end of that leg. Head temps will be 250 -260. It cools quickly while I gas up. A tank run on highway at 60 - 65 on hot humid days / Oil temps 220 range, head temps 240. I just had to know so I tested till I now feel comfortable about it.
I run the Wards fan, Find it helps with both head and oil temps up to 70 MPH. (helps a whole lot more around town and on two lane roads)
Has been allot of "cussing" and discussing on what different people do and do not do to these TGs about heat. This TG is mine and I have it the way I like it for the way I ride it. No one cure-all for all people.
Dennis

Thanks for the input. I am beginning to think about the overall design with MotorTrike . Maybe the splash boards (running boards) may actually be creating some kind of air dam. You are right though, I need to find out what I think is right. There are a lot of opinions out there. I am running a HD oil cooler, so combining that with the Wards fans might work. I just feel I need to get oil temp down from 286*

 

[DK Custom Products]

I just finished installing the Oil Bud. What a PITA. I never want to do that again. lol

Letting it warm up and doing a 10 mile country road run left me unimpressed, but maybe it will surprise me on the interstate, which is where I need it the most.

Tomorrow, or, for sure this weekend, I will go out and test it compared to my baseline of no oil cooler.

Kevin

 

[geezerglide11441]

I just finished installing the Oil Bud. What a PITA. I never want to do that again. lol Letting it warm up and doing a 10 mile country road run left me unimpressed, but maybe it will surprise me on the interstate, which is where I need it the most. Tomorrow, or, for sure this weekend, I will go out and test it compared to my baseline of no oil cooler. Kevin

I agree Kevin, a riding buddy of mine has the "oil bud" on his Streetglide with a built 120" motor and I have not been impressed with the performance of his cooler either. I am looking really hard at the twin fan powered Ultra Cool cooler if I experience any heat issues this summer. I am ok with oil temp of 235, but anything beyond that and it raises a concern!!

In any event, good luck with your testing!!

Roger

 

[DK Custom Products]

I agree Kevin, a riding buddy of mine has the "oil bud" on his Streetglide with a built 120" motor and I have not been impressed with the performance of his cooler either. I am looking really hard at the twin fan powered Ultra Cool cooler if I experience any heat issues this summer. I am ok with oil temp of 235, but anything beyond that and it raises a concern!!

In any event, good luck with your testing!!

Roger

Thank you Roger. Should be able to get out this afternoon and see what it does.

If there was somewhere to have placed a Jagg or Ultracool on the 2014 I would have done that...we'll see, but I may still have to figure out somewhere to put it.

We'll see what this afternoons test brings...it's 93* here today.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Well I got out today and was able to duplicate my ride where I created my baseline...no wind. :clapping:

But the ambient temp was warmer by about 5*

I am still unimpressed. I called Oil Bud and he suggested that possibly the thermostat was not opening all the way. I already pulled it, and tomorrow will be looking for a stronger spring to make sure it is all the way open.

Should have more to report by the end of the weekend.

Kevin

 

[geezerglide11441]

Well I got out today and was able to duplicate my ride where I created my baseline...no wind. :clapping:

But the ambient temp was warmer by about 5*

I am still unimpressed. I called Oil Bud and he suggested that possibly the thermostat was not opening all the way. I already pulled it, and tomorrow will be looking for a stronger spring to make sure it is all the way open.

Should have more to report by the end of the weekend.

Kevin

Sorry to hear Kevin, but that is basically the experience my riding buddy had with the Oil a Bud. Expensive experiment!! I hope things work out for you as going any other way with the 2014 gets to be a "head scratching" exercise!

Good luck, and ride safe!

Roger

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Not sure why your Oil Bud oil cooler isn't working. I can roll on the interstate @ 70-75 & have my oil temps around 225 in 90 degree temps.

 

[gerald martin]

oil coolersI have a 2015 freewheeler

I have a 2015 freewheeler. Temperature 90 F Using the stock oil cooler I was reading a oil temp on the drain plug of 260 F I was using a thermal gauge that we use in the oil patch so I know its accurate. I added a 10 row Jagg vertical mount cooler so now oil runs through both coolers. I now have a reading of 230 F at the drain plug. My rear head temp on the bolt behind the spark plug read 390F after 40 miles' at 70 mph. At those temps if I stop for a red light for about 4 minutes my rear cylinder always cuts out. I ride like a normal person I don't lug and I don't over rev. Screwball Please tell me how you keep your rear cylinder from shutting off. I am not contradicting you I just want to know how your bike could be different from mine and if you are riding it different from me

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

I have a 2015 freewheeler. Temperature 90 F Using the stock oil cooler I was reading a oil temp on the drain plug of 260 F I was using a thermal gauge that we use in the oil patch so I know its accurate. I added a 10 row Jagg vertical mount cooler so now oil runs through both coolers. I now have a reading of 230 F at the drain plug. My rear head temp on the bolt behind the spark plug read 390F after 40 miles' at 70 mph. At those temps if I stop for a red light for about 4 minutes my rear cylinder always cuts out. I ride like a normal person I don't lug and I don't over rev. Screwball Please tell me how you keep your rear cylinder from shutting off. I am not contradicting you I just want to know how your bike could be different from mine and if you are riding it different from me

Airflow is the key to Keep the engine temps managable. Keep in mind that the spark plug will always be hot. Sitting still or riding.

You may want to add a set of fans such as the Wards Parts Werks or Love Jug fans.

Today's fuel composition burns lean and hot.

 

[Sloride]

Maybe its just me, but an oil temperature gauge would just give me another thing to worry about. I don't need help in that department.

Mine has the HD oil cooler recommended for the SE 103 Stage IV kit.

If I put a 117 or 124 motor in it, I may address cooling issues, until then...I am going to ride it like I stole it and not worry about it

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Maybe its just me, but an oil temperature gauge would just give me another thing to worry about. I don't need help in that department.

Mine has the HD oil cooler recommended for the SE 103 Stage IV kit.

If I put a 117 or 124 motor in it, I may address cooling issues, until then...I am going to ride it like I stole it and not worry about it

I have the oil temp gauge in my dash. I can see the temps as the oil leaves the cooler flowing to the engine.

 

[eighty80]

Oil temp gauge would just give me something more to worry about...??

Just the opposite for me. While riding yesterday I would look at the gauge and note the temp., just like the gas, oil psi and charging rate. Yup all normal. I also watch my tach and speed. I also look in the mirrors. Do I worry about all these things?... no it's about riding. When I come off the freeway, my temp will come up and oil psi will come down. Yours does too. When I ride 35mph, stop and go, or park, I turn on the ward fans. The oil cooler fans will keep me around 230 degs at 3000rpm.

Keep in mind, this is with a 120r motor in my Trike. And yes, even watching all of these things, I don't miss much scenery.

What is so hard about it???

 

[DK Custom Products]

Not sure why your Oil Bud oil cooler isn't working. I can roll on the interstate @ 70-75 & have my oil temps around 225 in 90 degree temps.

It works, just not very well on the wetheads. The water pump is blocking the wind flow. On bikes, like yours, that have a free flow of air over the oil bud, it works great.

I even made some scoops, and it helped...check out the little write up and picture in post #195 at this thread-

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/thre...f-pics-and-thoughts-on-the-differences/page11


Kevin

- - - Updated - - -

I have a 2015 freewheeler. Temperature 90 F Using the stock oil cooler I was reading a oil temp on the drain plug of 260 F I was using a thermal gauge that we use in the oil patch so I know its accurate. I added a 10 row Jagg vertical mount cooler so now oil runs through both coolers. I now have a reading of 230 F at the drain plug. My rear head temp on the bolt behind the spark plug read 390F after 40 miles' at 70 mph. At those temps if I stop for a red light for about 4 minutes my rear cylinder always cuts out. I ride like a normal person I don't lug and I don't over rev. Screwball Please tell me how you keep your rear cylinder from shutting off. I am not contradicting you I just want to know how your bike could be different from mine and if you are riding it different from me

I did the same thing on my 2011 TG, ran two oil coolers, and then the WPW fans and kept the engine and the oil at 210-230, even on the hottest days.

Kevin

 

[Sloride]

Oil temp gauge would just give me something more to worry about...??

Just the opposite for me. While riding yesterday I would look at the gauge and note the temp., just like the gas, oil psi and charging rate. Yup all normal. I also watch my tach and speed. I also look in the mirrors. Do I worry about all these things?... no it's about riding. When I come off the freeway, my temp will come up and oil psi will come down. Yours does too. When I ride 35mph, stop and go, or park, I turn on the ward fans. The oil cooler fans will keep me around 230 degs at 3000rpm.

Keep in mind, this is with a 120r motor in my Trike. And yes, even watching all of these things, I don't miss much scenery.

What is so hard about it???

You gotta do what makes you happy and comfortable. I am riding a basically stock trike, it's not something I am going to worry about. There are millions of stock HD's out there running around with absolutely no issues.

I am seriously considering going to a 117 or 124 this winter, when I do this, I will monitor every aspect of the motor and add cooling apparatuses as needed to keep it's longevity and protect my investment.

Serious modifications to a factory setup calls for increased monitoring and I understand and will do this when that time comes. But for now, I check the oil level and tire PSI before every ride and watch my Oil PSI gauge and Amp gauge during the ride.

It's going to be a great weekend for riding...I need to ride more and type less

 

[rhino 2]

Everyone is talking about Maximum oil temps, What is the Minimum temps??
Sometimes Too low is just as harmful as too high....:Shrug: