Happy With Your Rear Brakes?

[RiderRick]

Are some trikes rear brakes better than others?
Are you satisfied with yours after conversion to a trike?
Which kits have the best brakes?

 

[katfish16]

I have a CSC conversion and have had no problems with the brakes.. Disk on the back...

 

[chickie]

Like Katfish 16 we have no problems with our CSC rear brakes other than squeaking which is hard lininb.

 

[jaybasr]

I have only got to ride a couple hundred miles on the 05 GW/Lehman but the brakes are great better than my truck. Jay A.

 

[Greydog]

I'm currently not really happy with my rear brakes on my Champion conversion. They feel "spongey" and really don't perform well for disc brakes. I'm gonna have my dealer take a look at them as I believe all the air wasn't bled out when the kit was installed.

 

[Gorilla]

Greydog, For sure get them re-bleed. I have the Champion conversion (installed myself) on my modified 07 Road King and the brakes are just super. So you must have air in the lines.

 

[1550vt]

I love mine, great pad wear and will stop on a dime. I am bragging.............I converted mine to disc myself, but they are great. A whole lot better than the stock Lehman drums.

If you are running any of the disc kits like the Champion and others listed above....they should be very good. I have read comments concerning the TG rears, but have heard no complaints from any others.

 

[Nauga Mok]

Greydog -- did you get your brakes fixed yet? One sure sign there's air in the system is they get spongier at higher elevations. Here in 'Vegas, the elevation is about 2,000' depending where I am in town. Anything above 6,000' or a 4,000' increase in elevation will cause a softer pedal because the air bubble expands at higher elevation.<br />
<br />
NM

 

[joelin5386]

Just got a Motor TRike kit installed on my 09 Ultra. It has drum brakes on the rea. Can I convert them to disc

 

[Gorilla]

Go to the Harley forum and look for this thread "Lehman Disc Brake Conversion" not a lot of detail but yes it can be done. You need to identify the rear end and I believe MotorTrike uses Ford rear ends. Then you will have to find out what Ford disk setup will fit the rear end. The hardest part is going to be identifing the parts

 

[ben721364]

Just got a Motor TRike kit installed on my 09 Ultra. It has drum brakes on the rea. Can I convert them to disc

I suppose that you can replace the drum brakes with disc brakes. What is your objective? The advantages of disc v, drum rear brakes, all else equal are lower unsprung weight and greater resistance to fade. Neither of these are important (except for bragging rights) on a trike unless one spend a great deal of time riding in the mountains at high speeds when fade might possibly come into play. In the case of a trike, a car, a 2-wheel motorcycle, etc. front brakes and tires account for 70+% of effective braking power.

 

[Greydog]

Greydog -- did you get your brakes fixed yet? One sure sign there's air in the system is they get spongier at higher elevations. Here in 'Vegas, the elevation is about 2,000' depending where I am in town. Anything above 6,000' or a 4,000' increase in elevation will cause a softer pedal because the air bubble expands at higher elevation.

NM

Not yet. Still too cold here in West Virginia to ride over to the dealer. Should be able to get over there about the middle of this month. At least the freakin' snow has melted off!!!

 

[stacebg]

cant quite agree here
i feel that with the extra weight and inertia of the back 2 wheels, especially if you have some big rubber, that 70 - 30 ratio drops way off

may be a line in the sand here so to speak lol
i think with that extra centrifigal force pushing you and extra weight in the back you really need way better back brakes than with a 2 wheeler

my 3 cents (due to rising costs of bs)

I suppose that you can replace the drum brakes with disc brakes. What is your objective? The advantages of disc v, drum rear brakes, all else equal are lower unsprung weight and greater resistance to fade. Neither of these are important (except for bragging rights) on a trike unless one spend a great deal of time riding in the mountains at high speeds when fade might possibly come into play. In the case of a trike, a car, a 2-wheel motorcycle, etc. front brakes and tires account for 70+% of effective braking power.

 

[1550vt]

I am the author of the "Lehman Disc Brake Conversion" thread and I went that route for two reasons.

#1. My drums were fine, but I could never keep them in decent adjustment and they would pull one-way-or-another under a heavy stop. If they are properly adjusted....drum brakes are just fine.

#2. I sought a disc brake kit from Lehman, because I just like the looks and simplicity of the disc brakes. Lehman told me I had to purchase a new rear end for $4,000 and that it was not possible to convert mine to disc. I told them to go blow and proceeded to make the conversion. They used a variance of Ford rear end components, but once you get that figured out...the rest is pretty easy and only takes a bit of "fooling around" out in the shop...like we all like to do anyway. Striking the balance between the calipers and the stock HD rear brake MC is the most important part. I converted mine for around $300 in parts.

As for the braking ability/ratio let me tell you that you do need very good rear brakes on a trike. It's true that on any vehicle, most of the braking occurs in the front end. Due to a cut brake line, I had to come back from Canada once on just the front brake (too lazy to stop and get it fixed) and that little contact patch on the front wheel will not stop a trike in a bind no matter how good the system is. It slides real well right on through any traffic signal and if the pavement is damp....you're risking your life if you depend on the front brakes to stop you. Besides...there is a lot more rubber on the two rear tires to use-up than there is on that itty-bitty front tire.

Make sure you have good rear brakes whether-or-not they are drum or disc. The trike needs all three brakes to stop in a bind. Go out and try to stop it in a hurry one damp day just with the fronts and see what happens.

 

[allanintexas]

we had the 'spongy' feeling on a champion harley conversion that came through our shop and after repeated vacuum bleeds the solution was to install a larger master cylinder capable of handling two calipers-problem solved.

 

[Gorilla]

we had the 'spongy' feeling on a champion harley conversion that came through our shop and after repeated vacuum bleeds the solution was to install a larger master cylinder capable of handling two calipers-problem solved.

A great soluntion, now what master cylinder did you use?

 

[rmrc51]

This is an upgrade that I'm also considering.

My 97 Valkyrie has one of the original Motor Trike kits. I've often thought about the possibility of converting to disk but never investigated if they offer a conversion kit. Now that this thread has brought the subject to light again, I will look into it as my last upgrade being that I've already done everything possible to this trike. The only other decision I have to make before looking into the brake conversion, is whether I'm going to keep the trike, or sell it as I hardly ever ride.

 

[danbgt]

I have a DFT kit. Retains the stock GL1800 rear brake. 45,000 miles and no issues. Stops on a dime. Pulling the trailer. No difference. Just allow a little extra space.

 

[1550vt]

I helped a guy with a Honda/Lehman convert from drum to disc and we had to do some tricks with the way Honda uses both rear and front master cylinders to work certain pistons in both the rear and the front calipers.

rmr....I cannot be sure about the Valkyrie, but I know it is a bit more complicated with the combined brake systems. On a Harley.....piece of cake, because the Harley uses a split system. I think it all boiled down to a "device" in the braking system that was very difficult to bleed, but once we got past that, the conversion was easy. Yours not being a Lehman (which is what I specialize in) would take some research, but overall, it's not that expensive. My conversion cost total up to less than $250 in parts and your elbow-grease.

I'd say check with Motor Trike and see if they offer a kit. I they do and will sell you one....I bet it will cost a pretty penny.

 

[rmrc51]

rmr....I cannot be sure about the Valkyrie, but I know it is a bit more complicated with the combined brake systems. On a Harley.....piece of cake, because the Harley uses a split system. I think it all boiled down to a "device" in the braking system that was very difficult to bleed, but once we got past that, the conversion was easy. Yours not being a Lehman (which is what I specialize in) would take some research, but overall, it's not that expensive. My conversion cost total up to less than $250 in parts and your elbow-grease.

I'd say check with Motor Trike and see if they offer a kit. I they do and will sell you one....I bet it will cost a pretty penny.

If I could do the conversion even for $500.00 it would be worth it. I'll contact Motor Trike and see what they say. Thanks for the information. ThumbUp

 

[tedsch47]

I just converted my trikes rear brakes from drum to disk. I went with one manufacturer for everything except the parking brake lever and the custom brake lines. I used a Wilwood Disk Brake kit with the parking brake and the parking brake cable kit. I used an Orscheln parking brake lever.

As I have a Ford Pinto 6.75" rear end I was able to find a kit that fit exactly except I swapped out the 5 hole rotors for undrilled rotors. I also purchased center registers that needed to be machined for my axle diameter as there were none available that directly fit. I took the rotors, my axles and the registers to a local machine shop to have holes drilled in the rotors for 4 lug Ford wheels (4x4.25") and to have the axle flanges machined and mated to the rotors to eliminate any runout.

Everything fit and my brakes are so much better. I used Wilwood as they had everything I needed and I didn't have to scrounge for any extraneous parts. Wilwood has a background in disk brake manufacturing for racing and for muscle cars. No I don't work for Wilwood but they gave me great service and helped me every step of the way. You will pay for Wilwood but the quality is outstanding. :beerchug:

 

[onevw]

Hannigan Trike 1500 with upgraded brakes installed

 

[eagle1]

so why does HMO put a 5/8" bore rear master cylinder on he t/g's?
just the dumbest thing they did on the trike, except put the rear
brake switch do close to the CAT. they need smarter engineers.

 

[Gorilla]

I changed the rear master cylinder to the Performance Machine 11/16 bore and it cured all my rear brake issues. I have a HD/Champion conversion straight axle with their disk brakes. By the way Performance Machine is a forum supporter they gave me a discount and great service.

 

[1550vt]

I have "fooled" around extensively with drum-to-disc conversions over the past couple of years. It's not that difficult once you find out what hub and axle flange arrangement you have. These conversions use various run-of-the-mill automobile rear ends (in most cases).

The key is matching the caliper volume to the MC volume. If the brakes are spongy...get calipers with smaller pistons or a larger MC. Getting the larger MC is the biggest issue on a Harley, which brings me around to what I want to mention.

I had been stuck with a 5/8 (stock) rear dresser MC and could not find an 11/16 or larger MC that would be a direct bolt-on in place of the HD 5/8.....never knew Performance Machine made one until Gorilla just mentioned it. A 1/16 increase in MC bore-size will make a difference in brake ratio. So...Gorilla....you're telling me that PM makes an 11/16 rear brake MC that will bolt up to the Dresser frame?

The metric trikes I have worked with are "generally" 17mm, which is practically a 11/16. I had discovered the Tokico front brake calipers off Metric crotch-rockets worked very well with the 5/8 and would even work better with an 11/16. It would give a little firmer pedal.

 

[PCMike]

I have a 2012 Triglide and the rear brakes are much too weak. I'm disappointed in Harley for not doing a better engineering job.

 

[screwball]

Just a thought. I'm old. I've owned a lot of cars that didn't have power assist on the breaks. I'm sure lots of you are in the same league. I have quads with un-assisted rear breaks. They feel exactly like the Tri-Glide's rear breaks. They will lock up, but you have to stomp on them. 70% of your breaking should be with the front breaks, so if you are trying to stop with your rears only, they will take a lot of effort to stop. If your pads are wearing down prematurely, or your rotors are warping, could it be you are riding them, or trying to use them too much?? I'll be the first to admit taking off with the parking break on. Got so bad at it I put a Mercury switch on the handle to a red light on the dash. It happens. When we sold the Porsche with 11" disc breaks and no power assist and bought a Ford truck, I almost killed everyone stopping. Had to really lighten up on the foot. Few years later bought a 914 and had to learn to push hard again.

OR

you could have screwed breaks, or your dealer didn't know how to set them up initially. Good Luck!

 

[Hoghead]

I have a 2012 Triglide and the rear brakes are much too weak. I'm disappointed in Harley for not doing a better engineering job.

I certainly agree PCMIKE, Harley rear brakes on the 2012 Tri Glide are close to none....I thought something was wrong with mine but friend that has 2011 Tri Glide says the same thing.....Pushing the rear brake is like pushing on a rock....

 

[Gorilla]

I have "fooled" around extensively with drum-to-disc conversions over the past couple of years. It's not that difficult once you find out what hub and axle flange arrangement you have. These conversions use various run-of-the-mill automobile rear ends (in most cases).

The key is matching the caliper volume to the MC volume. If the brakes are spongy...get calipers with smaller pistons or a larger MC. Getting the larger MC is the biggest issue on a Harley, which brings me around to what I want to mention.

I had been stuck with a 5/8 (stock) rear dresser MC and could not find an 11/16 or larger MC that would be a direct bolt-on in place of the HD 5/8.....never knew Performance Machine made one until Gorilla just mentioned it. A 1/16 increase in MC bore-size will make a difference in brake ratio. So...Gorilla....you're telling me that PM makes an 11/16 rear brake MC that will bolt up to the Dresser frame?

The metric trikes I have worked with are "generally" 17mm, which is practically a 11/16. I had discovered the Tokico front brake calipers off Metric crotch-rockets worked very well with the 5/8 and would even work better with an 11/16. It would give a little firmer pedal.

Yes they do. I suggest people try it. It is a bolt in replacement. And the increased bor size does make a difference. The MC on the TRI-Glide is the same as on all the touring bikes. You are adding another caliper for the trike and the 11/16 bore MC makes a big difference. Your front MC is a 11/16 bore for the dual brakes up front. I suggest someone with a TRI-Glide try the swap to see if it makes a difference. I believe it will.

 

[1550vt]

Well....these guys on the 2012's have reported a "wooden" brake, which to me means the MC my actually be too big for the calipers used. The front brake ratio is up in the teens...probably like 18 or higher. A stock 2-wheeler rear is closer to an 8 or a 10....which is wooden, meaning you have a hard pedal, which is usually okay because our leg muscles are stronger than our hand muscles and on a 2-wheeler, you normally do not use the rear brake a lot. On a trike....different story. You need to be using the rears to stop the machine more so than the fronts. The set-up I had been using for the conversions results in a rear brake ratio of something close to 16, which feels more like a front brake...has much more control. An 11/16 MC using calipers with a total volume of around 3200 cubic millimeters would result in something closer to 13.4 and would feel a little harder, but not much.

Two 4-piston opposed calipers (two active on each side) with piston diameters of 32mm and a 11/16 MC would render a 13.25 ratio...which would be perfect. To get the same feel from the stock 5/8 MC, you would need two 4-piston opposed calipers with 30mm diameter pistons.

To remove the "wooden" feel from the TG, you would need to get a smaller MC, or slightly larger calipers in terms of volume (piston size). It sounds to me as if the rear calipers on the 2012 TG are too small to be used with the stock 5/8 MC, if indeed they feel like "pushing on a rock".