CSC Drive Shafts

[Reavis]

Has anyone heard about CSC telling dealers to weld the splines together on the Honda trikes?
Did you do it, or did you not do it?

 

[don graham]

I've heard something about that too. Gotta bring it in next week. I'll try to remember to ask if we don't hear anything before then.

 

[randalldavis]

This is true. I am getting a new CSC CobraXL kit installed and the shafts are to be welded together by the installer. If you bring your bike (CSC Trike) in to an authorized CSC Installer, you can get it welded and a year warrenty added. This is what my Installer told me

Thanks
Randall

 

[Reavis]

Well it is true. I talked to CSC Tech Monday and they are recommending and incouraging that you let the authorized dealer look at the drive line and weld it if there is play. I have taken mine in and left it to them. The world is definately changing around us.:AGGHH:

 

[Scalp Hunter]

I too talked to CSC today, and was told that they have only experienced about a 06% failure with the drive shafts they recommend welding them. So I am going to get it done. Not really comfortable with this, but as CSC told me; the alternative if the splines sheared off is stranded on the side of the road, As we do most of our traveling long distance and at night, not a pleasant thought.CSC's position is it's not mandatory, but highly recommended.:Shrug:

 

[Doctoss]

Do you think this problem will affect their sales?

 

[mtn rider]

I have the 2011 kit on my trike and wonder if it was done before delivery or are they calling for all kits to be checked and welded. Any comments?

 

[07BlueCSC]

My driveshaft stripped out completely. CSC sent a new shaft and told the dealer to get it welded. There was only 39000 on the conversion and the drive shaft had been serviced at the CSC factory in Virginia @ 27000 miles.

 

[randalldavis]

I have the 2011 kit on my trike and wonder if it was done before delivery or are they calling for all kits to be checked and welded. Any comments?

I was told the shaft must be installed and then welded because they could be different lenghts on different bikes.


Thanks
Randall

 

[The Wolf]

In July last year my splines sheared and spoke with CSC who kindly sent a new set of course I paid the shipping. If they have to be welded who on earth will do this over in the UK? I was stranded when it happened and do not want it to go again. When it did happen there was 22000 on the clock............

 

[randalldavis]

I went by the Trike shop today, where my CSC Trike is being built, and ask about the drive shaft welding thing. They showed the shaft parts to me and explained what they were going to do and how they would have to do it. It has to be put in place and then welded. To get the shaft off after it is welded is another story. You would have to unbolt the kit and slide it back to give room to remove the shaft. There is no maintenance to be done on it after it is welded...This is a permenant fix


Thanks
Randall

 

[kwputt]

I also talked to CSC Tech. service today and he informed me that the weld fix is for mid year 2007 and newer. Does not sound like a very well thought out repair. You're having the tailshaft on the GW welded to the CSC driveshaft and what effect does this have on the GW transmission warranty. I believe I would have to say BS, come up with a repair that is more inline with the 12k to 15k I'm spending or have spent on your conversion. Is CSC going to pick up the additional labor charge if you need to replace a tailshaft seal and you now have to seperate the conversion from the bike to gain access? I apologize in advance if I'm in error on these assumptions, but a fifty cent weld could end up being $$$$$$$$$$$.

 

[randalldavis]

CSC Drive Shaft Welded

Here are some pictures of my driveshaft welded.

Thanks
Randall

 

[Doctoss]

Randall, did the shop who triked your wing have any reservations at all with the csc kit? I like the csc but have a few reservations with all this about the drive shaft, what was the feeling you got from the trike makers?

 

[randalldavis]

Randall, did the shop who triked your wing have any reservations at all with the csc kit? I like the csc but have a few reservations with all this about the drive shaft, what was the feeling you got from the trike makers?

No reservations at all. In fact he does Champions as well. He has two trikes for him and his wife. One is a CSC and the other is a Champion. I had reservations about the driveshaft, but he convinced me it would not be an issue any more ofter welding them together. We talked at length about both and I finally came around to the CSC. I am very happy now, lets just hope I say that a few years down the road...I think I will.

Randall

 

[KenJ]

I have been following this with great interest for several months. I ride an 03 Goldwing with an 09 CSC conversion. So far, I have only a few thousand miles on it and am not probably in any danger of immediate failure.

Other forums have mentioned splines not properly lubricated while others have said that they were greased although I might queston whether they were greased with the proper product. I assume that it is the CSC end that fails only because CSC sends replacement parts. Is this the case? Is it the CSC end that shears? If so, why? Industry has used spline couplings for decades without thses problems.

I am not in favor of just welding the shaft. As another person stated, it the axis are not in perfect alignment, the shaft will wobble, That puts loads on the transmission output bearing and the intermediate transmission input bearing that should not be there.

This spring, I will pull the shaft as part of my preseason maintenance. I will clean it, inspect it and lube it with the Moly 52 paste recommended by CSC.

Maybe I am missing something here, but it seems that with the proper steel, proper machining, proper hardening, proper lubrication and protection from the elements, this thing should outlast the trike. I am not satisfied that the "weld fix" is truely that. Please find the problem and FIX it.

Thank you,

Ken

 

[stacebg]

what the heck is up with that???? shody part to start with????
in my book the spline is means for the shaft change in length for suspension travel an or any other flex that may be going on!!!
i will admit i lost a rear spline on mr max i used the stock yamaha spline and didnt get the seal installed properly and lost splines due to rust.... redid the seal and added a grease fitting no problem in about 50 k any one give a reason why this is happening??

 

[Doctoss]

I have been following this with great interest for several months. I ride an 03 Goldwing with an 09 CSC conversion. So far, I have only a few thousand miles on it and am not probably in any danger of immediate failure.

Other forums have mentioned splines not properly lubricated while others have said that they were greased although I might queston whether they were greased with the proper product. I assume that it is the CSC end that fails only because CSC sends replacement parts. Is this the case? Is it the CSC end that shears? If so, why? Industry has used spline couplings for decades without thses problems.

I am not in favor of just welding the shaft. As another person stated, it the axis are not in perfect alignment, the shaft will wobble, That puts loads on the transmission output bearing and the intermediate transmission input bearing that should not be there.

This spring, I will pull the shaft as part of my preseason maintenance. I will clean it, inspect it and lube it with the Moly 52 paste recommended by CSC.

Maybe I am missing something here, but it seems that with the proper steel, proper machining, proper hardening, proper lubrication and protection from the elements, this thing should outlast the trike. I am not satisfied that the "weld fix" is truely that. Please find the problem and FIX it.

Thank you,

Ken

I believe it is the Honda end that is the problem. Apparantly this part of the shaft is made with a softer metal than the csc part. I just wonder how the new shaft is performing?

 

[Triker gal]

:gah:

I went by the Trike shop today, where my CSC Trike is being built, and ask about the drive shaft welding thing. They showed the shaft parts to me and explained what they were going to do and how they would have to do it. It has to be put in place and then welded. To get the shaft off after it is welded is another story. You would have to unbolt the kit and slide it back to give room to remove the shaft. There is no maintenance to be done on it after it is welded...This is a permenant fix


Thanks
Randall

 

[Triker gal]

:gah:
Do you realize the consequences in the "never" having to service the drive shaft again means?????????
you can no longer GREASE the shaft on the kit NOR your bike.
The weld is a CHEAP FIX for CSC & for them to even think we consumers should accept that they have another thing coming.

they have re-engineered the shaft this year & all trike conversions (regardless of year) will get the new drive shaft. Everyone else is stuck w/ the "fix" which will cause damage somewhere else...engine ect.. & at the cost of who?? the consumer!!
We know ours about sheerd off as well!!! fighting w/ them now.

 

[Triker gal]

In July last year my splines sheared and spoke with CSC who kindly sent a new set of course I paid the shipping. If they have to be welded who on earth will do this over in the UK? I was stranded when it happened and do not want it to go again. When it did happen there was 22000 on the clock............

:AGGHH: yikes! @ least you had 22000 on her (I believe right?)
ours almost sheered & we have 9000!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Triker gal]

I also talked to CSC Tech. service today and he informed me that the weld fix is for mid year 2007 and newer. Does not sound like a very well thought out repair. You're having the tailshaft on the GW welded to the CSC driveshaft and what effect does this have on the GW transmission warranty. I believe I would have to say BS, come up with a repair that is more inline with the 12k to 15k I'm spending or have spent on your conversion. Is CSC going to pick up the additional labor charge if you need to replace a tailshaft seal and you now have to seperate the conversion from the bike to gain access? I apologize in advance if I'm in error on these assumptions, but a fifty cent weld could end up being $$$$$$$$$$$.

If my husband could type & spell he'd have pages of sensorship!!
we agree w/you & yes they need to come up w/ a better answer!! they have a new shaft since 2012 & they REFUSE to provide it to those w/the faulty shaft. I say we all need to file against CSC untill they do the right thing & provide us ALL w/ the new shaft!

 

[Triker gal]

:Wrong::gah:

My husband is a retired Mill Wright (industrial machinery...pump drive line assembly, precision alignments, certified welder ect..) since our drive shaft nearly sheered off & rubber coupler is cracked 3 places on BOTH sides, (by the way we just rolled over....9k mi's) We have studied CSC's drive shaft problem & came to an answer. Honda incased their drive shaft (whole thing) to protect it from the elements/environment..dust,dirt water ect..CSC has removed that protection exposing it to the environment allowing debre,h2o dust & like ours RUST to enter the shaft causing failure! The reason for it failing is the intermediate shaft needs to be serviced every 3-5k mi's. (NO MENTION of this in their manual!! NO the answer is NOT "weld" it!! You are taking a moving part (even though SLIGHT i/o whn accel & decel) & now making it stationery! Something else along the line will fail! Output shaft/spline, gear box ENGINE..
We spoke to CSC & mentioned certified welder is needed their response " No it's no big deal any one who knows how to weld can do it trhey don't need 2b certified.." What a crock the metal itself has to be heat treated b4 welding so the weld will not fail & crack!
When we requested a NEW 12 driveline, they refused.
they won't replace the coupler they say "That is totally acceptable"
they have agreed to send a new (previous production) drive line, intermediate shaft, new "spring" (if you can call it a spring for looks basically neighbors was broken in 2..) new spacer collar. We are taking it to a drive line place & having them place two zirk fittings, 1 on spline output shaft on the engine, the other on the spline for the intermediate shaft, machined & ballanced.
We will also have them design sealed protective boots to keep the environmental hazrds out of the splines & the GREASE IN!
By the way once we get this done we are to "drive it 1k mi's THEN have it welded.if you choose not to have it welded it will void your warrunty.." (they gifted us with a gracious 1 more year...I guess that's how long they expect it (FIX) to hold
We all need to SUE CSC for the new engineered drive line!!
& YES the consumer affairs of Va. has been contacted...they should do what is right is all. (messed w/ the WRONG woman!)

 

[Triker gal]

I believe it is the Honda end that is the problem. Apparantly this part of the shaft is made with a softer metal than the csc part. I just wonder how the new shaft is performing?

:gah::drama:
No it's NOT Honda's problem. It's CSC problem, even I know not to put a heavier metal into a softer one...the problem is the protection from the elements is now gone. No way to keep dust,w2o ect.. out & grease (Honda's grease $13.00 for 3 oz) inside to lube the spline! The whole shaft is exposed to the elements!! WIDE OPEN!! They need boots, like a cv joint boot on the gearbox end, (to protect the spline shaft.) Maybe a breather on both ends.. INSIDE shaft to protect the hole @ the joint (keep dust out) & keep grease in the shaft (creating a grease gallery) for the intermediate spline.

 

[Triker gal]

:gah:

Yes we heard & It's correct. No we haven't welded it solid. (yet)
If you don't they'll void the warrunty... see detailed complaint of mine on page two.

In short they REFUSE to send the re-engineered (2012) shafts to the rest of us w/ defective shafts. we're on our own pretty much. If the Bike "blows up" it's @ our expense...even with their defective drive shaft & lame "fix"...BANDAID.

 

[07BlueCSC]

I believe it is the Honda end that is the problem. Apparantly this part of the shaft is made with a softer metal than the csc part. I just wonder how the new shaft is performing?

Drive shaft was replaced and welded last October.
6500 miles and no problems so far.

 

[Triker gal]

Drive shaft was replaced and welded last October.
6500 miles and no problems so far.

ThumbUp whew that's GOOD!

we are so worried about doing it...engine problems or gear box problems nice to hear all is going good so far.

 

[Triker gal]

:gah:

Perminent FIX for their shaft issue...what about the maintenance of the other
parts..engine, grear box ect..Things NEED grease..:Shrug:

Does any one know WHO is responsible for the cost of removal of rear end & repair of engine or gear box AFTER this weld "FIX"? :AGGHH:

 

[Triker gal]

I believe it is the Honda end that is the problem. Apparantly this part of the shaft is made with a softer metal than the csc part. I just wonder how the new shaft is performing?

Actually it's CSC end...they put the heavier metal into Honda's shaft.
CSC was probably trying to save some $$ & also incorporate the two shafts by using Honda's shaft instead of their own design.
They have engineered one this year to solve this problem. (If they's only provide it to those of us who have the faulty ones...)

Perhaps if there were enough of us to call & "inquire"... :Shrug:

 

[carbco]

I believe it is the Honda end that is the problem. Apparantly this part of the shaft is made with a softer metal than the csc part. I just wonder how the new shaft is performing?

I am new to this forum. I have a '10 CSC Cobra XL conversion that has 5000 miles on it. I'm in Oregon and CSC only has one dealer here. I was told by CSC to contact them (4RFun in Junction City) They informed they had never welded one but had the instructions from CSC on how to do the welding. I wasn't comfortable with someone with no experience welding on my new trike. ON another forum I found a fix that Mtn. Trikes in S. Or N. Carolina has developed and I purchased one. It's a CV joint and adapter that replaced the rubber flex joint on the rear differential. I've installed it and removed the driveshaft and relubed the splined end of the driveshaft with Moly 60 (honda grease) and driven approx. 1000 miles so far and all is well.

This adapter is removeable and still allows you to remove the driveshaft for maintenance. I didn't like the fact that after welding the driveshaft you had to pull the rearend back or pull the engine to remove the driveshaft. The fix by Mtn TRikes, in my opinion, is far superior to the permanent welding fix by CSC. I'll keep you aprised on the performance of the CV joint. You'll like dealing with Stan & Nancy of Mtn Trikes. The machining of their CV joint and adapter is good and I think this is the way, I believe, CSC should have resolved the driveshaft problem. I'm going to purchase another driveshaft and machine out the front U joint and replace it with a greasable replaceable U joint but I'm going with the Mtn. Trike CV joint for the present.

Go to the Mtn TRike site and ask Stan or Nancy to forward you pictures of their fix. I think you'll agree? I've been a machinist for 40 yrs and an airplane mechanic with an A& P and certified welder. My feeling is welding the shaft could crystalized the components and cause an area for failure. Just my thoughts. I now have 10,000 miles on my driveshaft with the Mtn. Trikes coupler and everything is smooth and I've had no problems. I'm really glad I went with the Mtn Trike coupler.