CONFUSION

[AdvenJack]

Hi All,

I have to admit utter and complete CONFUSION over these vehicles that

are straight forward two wheeled/tired typical motorcycles, that then

have two more wheels/tires attached to them resulting in a four wheeled/

tired vehicles being legally registered as motorcycles and not cars.

http://towpacusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/12inalwheels014.jpg



The federal law has, as part of it's definition for a motorcycle, that

the vehicle has a maximum of three wheels/tires, and I am virtually

certain that all the U.S. states have in their statutes, that motorcycles

must meet the definition that the federal government has established.

So, if there are any lawyers on the board that can help me grasp how

this plays out legally, in addition to the quad offering by Hannigan,

I'd love to be educated!!!

http://www.hannigantrikes.com/products/honda-gl1800-quadracycle/

 

[ultrafxr]

Whazat mean

 

[AdvenJack]

I am going to go out on a limb, and guess that it is a matter of a failure to enforce the state statutes, (which mirror the the NHTSA definition) by the collection of State Police agencies, as well as the big city police departments, and the smaller county and municipal police departments. When ever public outcry or political interest occurs in a certain activity, that's what the big bosses in the police agencies order their personnel to enforce with the most effort. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[dadztoy]

Probably has something to do with the fact that outriggers like Tow Pac, Voyager, etc, are classified as "Accessories" and not a permanent change to the bike... I frequently remove my Tow Pac kit and ride on my "2 wheeled motorcycle" when I chose to ride solo for a while... If the wife or daughters are riding with me, the Tow Pac goes back on... So it is an accessory, and not a permanent change to the bike making into a "4 wheeler"...

Just my opinion and we all know what that's worth !!!

Les

 

[rhino 2]

You purchase them with the stipulation that if you can't legally register it in your state its becomes your problem not theirs....Its in the disclaimer.......

 

[AdvenJack]

To DADZTOY,

With utmost respect, and in the most civil of tones, (if we were speaking to one another

in person) I would like to point out that the federal definition, as well as my own state's

definition, (your state's definition may be written differently) makes reference only to the

number of wheels/tires that contact the ground. No exception is stated for readily/quickly

removable wheels/tires, nor whether or not they bear weight in addition to their own weight,

nor is any other exception articulated. If I were a prosecutor in traffic court, and an officer

had written a summons to a person operating a Tow-Pac equipped Harley Ultra, Gold Wing,

Triumph Rocket III, etc. citing a violation of the statute that Florida has in place that states

that a motorcycle may have a maximum of three wheels in contact with the ground, I would

be very confident of winning that case. I see it as an improper registration classification, just

as one can't choose to register their typical factory built Ford Mustang as a motorcycle, nor

as a school bus. (Handshake)

 

[LadyonaMission]

Jack, are you a politician???

 

[AdvenJack]

And THAT is exactly the question that I ask. HOW can these Tow-Pac or similar equipped,

otherwise typical, motorcycles, legally be allowed to be classified on their registrations as

motorcycles, even though they operate on four contact points with the ground, as every

common car/automobile does? Here in Florida I've seen Polaris SLINGSHOTs with a mod-

ification to their rear end which replaces the single rear wheel/tire with a PAIR of wheel/

tires installed centrally, their inner sidewalls no more than a few inches apart.

 

[trike lady]

I had one for the longest time on a GL1500 Goldwing when I lived in Florida and was never singled out for a ticket or harassed by the police.

Below is a quote from the MTC Voyager website:

Questions exist about the Voyager’s legality based on motorcycle vehicle identification codes generally reading, “...a motorcycle is every motor vehicle designed not to travel on more than three wheels in contact with the ground.” The Voyager’s legality is not found here.

The Voyager is legal under motorcycle trailer law, which states, “a non-motorized vehicle carrying persons or property being drawn or pulled by a motorized vehicle.” The Voyager is drawn from the motorcycle, carries persons (the rider and passenger) and property (the motorcycle).

Doesn’t a motorcycle trailer require a tag? Yes, if it is an extension of the motorcycle. The Voyager is not an extension of the motorcycle, therefore does not require a tag.

Also, the Voyager is legal under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. This act states that any product or modification that allows people to operate a vehicle or system in a way that makes it safer for the operator and the public is legal. Disabilities include both height and strength, which are major causes for needing stability.

If there is ever a question, call us. If you're ever threatened that you're riding an illegal vehicle, say that is incorrect and if ticketed, call us. We will assist with full force upon any confusion. We've had the motorcycle identification changed or outrigger stabilizing wheels identified in Iowa and Washington.

 

[peteg59]

While you might be technically correct Jack, HOPEFULLY the law enforcement authorities in the Sunshine State have bigger fish to fry!

If you are seriously considering adding this type of accessory to your motorcycle, it'd definitely be in your best interest to check with the state DMV to see if they have any restrictions on this specific type of product.

I'd have to believe there are a large number of these accessory devices currently in use in Florida, simply because of the number of elderly and or handicapped riders out there enjoying their bikes long after their ability to ride on 2 wheels has diminished...:Shrug:

 

[AdvenJack]

I am absolutely not a politician. I appreciate all the info. I'm working

toward a decision on what I want to operate. That's why I asked this

question. I always prefer to keep as many options open as I can. I find

it interesting that above, a participant has said we are allowed by law

to have people in a motorcycle trailer while it's being operated on the

public roadways. We all know a car pulling a trailer is not allowed to

have people in the trailer while operating on the roads. Again I thank

all for participating on this thread!!!!!!!

 

[PosseRider]

Jack, are you a politician???

Good one Lola :clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[Gorilla]

The DMV does not inspect the vehicle after you add the kit to your motorcycle. As a matter of fact nothing is changed on your registration. Now from the law enforcement angle. Without being really knowledgeable about trikes and the type of kits being referred to the average officer sees a legal motorcycle unless they really look hard. There is no reason to look hard. As stated voyager states that it is a trailer type addition. If the courts want to interpret it that way okay who is it hurting?

Now the 4 wheel Hannagan vehicle is a whole different animal. In every aspect it meets the definition of an ATV in Florida ATV's are not street legal in most areas of Florida. There are exceptions in some counties with included restrictions. If I saw one on the road here in Monroe County I would stop it and it would be ticketed and possibly towed. If you look the other way on that vehicle then ALL ATV's should be allowed on the roads.

 

[bikerbillone]

Jack, are you a politician???

Dunno, but I like the way he writes. My opinion, the trike market is becoming saturated with all kinds of different vehicles. I do not see some of them surviving in the shake out. By the way, I like the way this guy writes, hope he continues on this forum.

 

[rhino 2]

Dunno, but I like the way he writes. My opinion, the trike market is becoming saturated with all kinds of different vehicles. I do not see some of them surviving in the shake out.

Yep....I was at the only Polaris dealer in 80 miles from me that Sold Slingshots yesterday and he just stop selling them....3 years ago he sold about 80 of them, Then Polaris raised the price and sales started dropping..Last year they only sold 3 of them...Hes big on ATV's And Side-bys...And also he's an Indian dealer...He thinks Polaris will dump the Slingshot like the did with Victory, Which he also was a dealer..:Shrug:

 

[chester]

nhtsa reply

I am going to go out on a limb, and guess that it is a matter of a failure to enforce the state statutes, (which mirror the the NHTSA definition) by the collection of State Police agencies, as well as the big city police departments, and the smaller county and municipal police departments. When ever public outcry or political interest occurs in a certain activity, that's what the big bosses in the police agencies order their personnel to enforce with the most effort. Don't ask me how I know.

How do u know?????

 

[AdvenJack]

Take A Bow Y'All !!!

To All,

WOW!!! I am so happy to read all the heartfelt, thought out, responding posts!!!! I've participated

on a good number of forums over the years, and I've watched these turn into ugly exchanges time

and again. BUT NOT HERE !!! Everybody has been as polite as can be, while making assertions and

or presenting "possibilities". I truly, "tip my hat" to the community! And, in response to all who have

contributed to this discussion, "Hear, Hear".

____________________________________________



*To GORILLA,

I'm a retired LEO; thank you for joining in on this. From the information from VOYAGER above:

Doesn’t a motorcycle trailer require a tag? Yes, if it is an extension of the motorcycle.

The Voyager is not an extension of the motorcycle, therefore does not require a tag.

Do you agree with this idea that NO License Plate is required for the Voyager, Insta Trike, Pow-Pac

type of "trailer" we're discussing here because it's "not an extension of the motorcycle"? I know

TRAILERS are quite inexpensive to register in all the states that I've inquired about. So registering

one's VOYAGER, POW-PAC, etc. seems like a painless and wise route to take. And, trailers must

have lights that come on with the towing vehicle's headlights, turn signal lights, brake lights, and I

believe 4 way flashers.

 

[trike lady]

On the Wing I owned years ago I had lights on the Voyager fenders and it was tied into the bike wiring harness.

 

[paws]

Now that this has been hashed out from the question side as well as the answered side....

Jack.. have you come to any conclusions?

If you want to drive 3 wheels, buy something with 3 wheels.

If you want to drive 4 wheels, buy a car.

Hurry and decide!

The season is fast approaching!

Good luck with your decision.

 

[trike lady]

I never took it off, the Honda dealer had the honors when they changed the rear tire. There are two small jacks the fit the belly pan and you install them until the contact the floor to hold the bike upright, you undo two large bolts that go into the belly pan and roll the Voyager away, lower the side stand and lower the side stand one first and then the right side one and set them aside. It should take a few minutes to remove and install.

 

[dadztoy]

Jack,

Thank you for your most thoughtful reply - you are a gentleman and and a scholar sir...

I can only tell you my personal experience with my Tow Pac which was purchased in 2013... I have ridden my Tow Pac equipped bike cross country and have never had any difficulties with the law, and in fact, have never even been stopped, except by interested old guys like myself...

The best answer I can give is to direct you to trike lady's post from Voyager - that seems to sum it up pretty well...

And to FuzzyWuzHe - it takes me about 15 minutes to remove my Tow Pac and a bit longer to reinstall as I usually have to tweak wheel alignment a bit when putting it back on, but if you were not concerned with that, about 15 minutes on as well... 3 bolts is all it takes...

Les

 

[AdvenJack]

My choice will be a three wheeler, and I'm at about 95% headed toward two

forward wheels and one rear design. If, (the biggest word in the English dictionary)

Honda made the Spyders that CanAm is making the point would be settled.

Again, thanks for all the feedback on this thread!!!

:clapping:

 

[hogcowboy]

I never took it off, the Honda dealer had the honors when they changed the rear tire. There are two small jacks the fit the belly pan and you install them until the contact the floor to hold the bike upright, you undo two large bolts that go into the belly pan and roll the Voyager away, lower the side stand and lower the side stand one first and then the right side one and set them aside. It should take a few minutes to remove and install.

I think they forgot to connect the wiring harness when they put it back on. Or I missed they little detail. They made a point of saying to disconnect it so I expected they would reconnect it.:Shrug::Shrug::Shrug:

 

[rhino 2]

I think they forgot to connect the wiring harness when they put it back on. Or I missed they little detail. They made a point of saying to disconnect it so I expected they would reconnect it.:Shrug::Shrug::Shrug:

Your right.....They left that part out....:Shrug:....Can't remember every little detail....

 

[AdvenJack]

Above PAWS referred to the riding season quickly approaching. Where I am

the riding season is certainly NOW. And in my humble opinion, it begins on or

about Columbus day, (if it actually has a beginning and ending date here, it's

due to high temperatures, definitely NOT due to low temperatures). As to the

close of the season, Memorial Day I'll "throw into the ring". I assure you all

that at my latitude the months of June, July, August and September really,

REALLY make a person appreciate the invention of air conditioning, both for

buildings AND IN CARS!!! (Sweating)