Building an IRS type suspension for your trike

[Terry Trikedude]

tonight I will get some info on solid or (fixed) axle roll center location and what all this info I have put in this thread really means in the sceam of things.

 

[Terry Trikedude]

Thanks zook I think its a nice trike too did you get a good look at how well built it is?

That is the neatest (fixed) rear-end I ever built.

 

[BIBS]

:yes:Well...gettin back to the subject,I been to three difrent sites today,checked out their offings in the way of IRS rears,all pricey.....7 Grand and up.
I spoke to 3 different guys and inquired about their parts list.....would it be possible to purchase parts off them to build me a rear...............There was casual interest with one manufacturer.
Maybe they think I'm going to duplicate(which I doubt I could)their design!!!
Hell man,all I want is a better ride!!!!!!!!!!!
My cervical issues are such that I'm taking one helluva chance everytime I mount up and git down the road.
I'm not looking for superior handling or going fast around the corners,here in South Jersey them type roads dont exist...except Potholes that would make IRAQ look like a highspeed trans Am circuit!!:blush:
I'm going to explore the options and see where I end up.

 

[1550vt]

Ataboy Bibs....stay down to earth and pursue your project. From what I know about you, you will get it done one-way-or-another without all the math, complicated calculating, engineering terms and CAD drawings. The things you don't already have in your head, you could draw-out and design on the side of a cardboard box.

Most of the trike manufacturers don't want you to know what they do, how they do it, or what they used, but it is not rocket science.

 

[BIBS]

Ataboy Bibs....stay down to earth and pursue your project. From what I know about you, you will get it done one-way-or-another without all the math, complicated calculating, engineering terms and CAD drawings. The things you don't already have in your head, you could draw-out and design on the side of a cardboard box.

Most of the trike manufacturers don't want you to know what they do, how they do it, or what they used, but it is not rocket science.

Thanks for the encouragement!!
The problem is....is not having the chance to get my hands on one,take some measurements,etc.

I dont want to duplicate anyones Hard work Roger.But instead use a working example as a guide to build one,Hell man I've been around machine shops half my adult life....owned my own weldshop for the past 24 years...so I know I can do it...but attempting to do so off a computor screen might just could take some doin!!

 

[Terry Trikedude]

Ok all... here is the best attempt at making a fixed axle reacted similar to a IRS as far as rolling effect.
This pic is of a system called 'mumford link' chassis setup for a fixed axle that lowers the roll center as close to the ground as I have seen for a fixed axle.

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2549&stc=1&d=1288153044

 

[Terry Trikedude]

Now that brings us to WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT.

Well for a trike to handle well, ride well and most of all not pick up the inside wheel in a hard turn these two things I have gone over are very important.

You must keep the center of gravity as low as possible and you need to have the rear suspension set up with as low a roll center as possible and still have plenty of ground clearance.

Therefor even though the set up I have shown here for a fixed axle lowers the roll center... it still is not as low as with a IRS because of ground clearance. And because you must raise the axle to get the ground clearance you effect the center of gravity the wrong way.

Therefor... that is simply putting it why I say hands down a IRS is much better than a fixed axle for a trike. (my opinion and you know what that will get ya)

 

[Gorilla]

Yep....nice trike! :yes:

Randy I think we were looking for a more frontal un-obstructive view. But it is a Nice trike.

 

[1550vt]

Well....all I have to say is that my son had a Big Wheel back-in-the-day, which was a straight-axle machine. He gave it un-shirted hell and never rolled it over once.

 

[BIBS]

I wunder how an air-suspension might work on my Bike....since it's a softtail the travel of the shocks is probobly less than 2''.

 

[1550vt]

I doubt you will be able to find an off-the-shelf system for a Softail, but it has been years since I either owned one, or worked on one. Here is where your imagination will have to come into play. I am sure you could manufacture some shock brackets on your axle tubes and your frame and simply remove the under-slung softail shocks?

 

[BIBS]

Legends air suspension comes to mind Roger.they're about 1/3rd the price for an IRS set-up.
I've been snoop'n around on the net all afternoon.
Other options are also coming into play.

 

[Terry Trikedude]

Originally Posted by 1550vt
Well....all I have to say is that my son had a Big Wheel back-in-the-day, which was a straight-axle machine. He gave it un-shirted hell and never rolled it over once.

Well... all I have to say is it don't take a rocket scientist to realize that your son never got his BIG WHEEL moving faster than 5mi/hr and oh what have we here... a center of gravity of about 3" off the ground. That is why he never turned it over or picked a wheel up off the ground.

 

[BIBS]

I doubt you will be able to find an off-the-shelf system for a Softail, but it has been years since I either owned one, or worked on one. Here is where your imagination will have to come into play. I am sure you could manufacture some shock brackets on your axle tubes and your frame and simply remove the under-slung softail shocks?

Roger....things will progress,I'm gathering more Ideas,looking at more IRS rears(so far I've seen 5 on line) and drawing sketches of other possibilities.
I've even entertained the Idea of of picking up an old Harley servi-car...for the chassis and modifying it to accept my 106 motor and trans.
I hear they ride pretty decent......I'd stretch the frame,get the neck out there to 33 degrees and use my 7 degree tree front end for stretch and increased trail.
I'll keep searching for the right combination of ride and Cool!!

 

[1550vt]

There is a trike out there I have seen that almost matches the characteristics of a big wheel, but I doubt if one would want to make a touring trike out of it. I have mine about as low to the ground as you can get it and still navigate around the road-kill on the highway.

BIBS....There is a guy local to me over here that has an almost perfect Servi-Car. I don't think the frame as-is would be strong enough for what you want to do, but it is a chain-drive. I doubt he would get rid of it for the price you may have in mind. It would be like cutting-up a mint P-51 Mustang to build a crop-duster.

You CAN get a chain-drive differential. Just go "Google-up" chain drive differential and you will find a few in the $1000 range.

 

[Terry Trikedude]

1550vt... I have seen that trike your talking about. It was in the Rats Hole in 2007 along with two of my trikes... that trike took 1st place and I took 3rd and 4th. So i remember it well.
Here it is shown in the circle.

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2573&stc=1&d=1288274961

 

[BIBS]

There is a trike out there I have seen that almost matches the characteristics of a big wheel, but I doubt if one would want to make a touring trike out of it. I have mine about as low to the ground as you can get it and still navigate around the road-kill on the highway.

BIBS....There is a guy local to me over here that has an almost perfect Servi-Car. I don't think the frame as-is would be strong enough for what you want to do, but it is a chain-drive. I doubt he would get rid of it for the price you may have in mind. It would be like cutting-up a mint P-51 Mustang to build a crop-duster.

You CAN get a chain-drive differential. Just go "Google-up" chain drive differential and you will find a few in the $1000 range.

Well we aint bilden no crop dusters VT hahahaha!!!!
I did as you suggested,found a few possibilities....
I like this outfit>>Trikes: Ridley RT : Roadsmith Trikes

Take a look at that suspension set-up!!!
And....they have a dealer 35 miles from me to boot!!(I still aint got that kind of money though)

 

[1550vt]

Did you go Google "chain drive differential"? Before you ever brought all this up, I never really considered a chain-drive diffy. Not that I want one mind you, but there is apparently some out there you can obtain in-the-raw, if you are determined to build from scratch.

Terry has explained in pretty serious engineering terms what all has to be considered. You may find yourself out at trike-rally's with a ruler and note-pad crawling around on the ground measuring and figuring out what the "professionals" are doing. If I know you like I think I do...that may not be a bad idea if you're determined to do this.

 

[BIBS]

VT yes I did google chain drive differentials,There are some possibilities with One of the manufacturers...but nothing I could really sink my teeth into.







HOW 'BOUT THIS IDEA>>>> loose those lame ass little shocks under that softtail frame of mine and weld on some shock tower mounts and put on a set of Harley air shocks?
I got plenty of room to do it on my frame....it aint IRS...but it would give a better ride!...................WADAYA THINK?

 

[1550vt]

Well....that is a possibility. I think I had mentioned that up through here somewhere, but it may be worth a try. You need to consider beefing-up that Softail frame. Lower shock mounts would be easy.

This is something you could play with and always abandon later. Construct some lower shock-mounts that will bolt onto your brackets where the swing arm is secured to your axle differential.

You could stick an inexpensive set of stock MC shocks on there and play with the ride height and feel you want before you invested in an air-ride suspension.

You have the lathe, the welder and a good imagination....go for it.

They told the Wright Brothers they couldn't fly!

 

[BIBS]

heh heh.....good thing they told me I couldnt fly!!! LOL.
Ya know Bub....I'm really surprised more folks havent participated in this thread.
Of course, I'm just funnin ya here....I totally understand why....with as many views as there have been....them fellas checkin the posts here are waitin,watchin for somethin good they can gleen off the this thread ta use for themselves.....I might be wrong here...am I?:no:

 

[1550vt]

The gambit of people that read these threads run from the new trike owner, those considering the purchase of a trike and all the way up to the trike designer/builder and manufacturer. There are folks out here that are extremely educated, intelligent and share their knowledge freely and then there are others that cannot due to legal or product liability issues. All of which are totally understandable. If I had something of value that I was marketing for profit, I may not be moved to freely make that product, or the fruits of my hard-earned labor available either.

You just have to consider that what you are interested in doing does not always arouse the interest of what someone else wants to do....but they read and learn. Many of us have fun here on the forum and the time to work with others on their projects. The simple fact is that most of the things people want to do, or own are commercially available and we live in a more affluent society than we did back in the days when we had no choice but to build what we wanted.

I (for one) applaud your efforts. I think most of the people that follow what you are doing would say ....full speed ahead BIBS and we wish you all the luck in the world and will help you if we can.

You just have to consider that not everyone will be interested in what you are trying to do, but that should not stop you from doing it.

 

[Nana]

BIBS, if this guy can build a flying car, you can build a flying trike!

 

[1550vt]

I could not have said it any better....all this guy had to do is add a flip-switch on his dash that says..."Fly".

 

[BIBS]

NANA...yah neva Know what I may be scheme'n next!!!!
I enjoyed the skit on that car!!!!

VT you have an elequent manor of articulation,And...factually you are correct!I'm putting together a list of parts and drawing sketchs of some possibilities.
To be god honest truthful with ya....at this point in time...I dont see the possibilities of it coming into fruition.Nonetheless.....the idea of fabrication the IRS with my own hands is a desire that wont dissipate soon.

I'm thinking more about the shocks, since I can do this in an afternoon...and enjoy a much softer ride on the same day!!

 

[BIBS]

Well...................................I'm done here on this thread,there'll be NO IRS suspension on my Bike(trike)



I've come to realize that doin what I wanted to do is really nothing more than an exercise of my ability,aided by whom ever wanted to offer up a service or support

So...I'll say this.I've found something that REALLY catches my eye!!...scroll down to the Orange Scoot(thats my heart throb!!!!)


>>>>Custom Trikes Australia - owner built CTA Deluxe Trikes


These trikes are what I had thought of some time ago.....before I thought about putting a DNA rear on my softtail Bike.

They look damn near identical to what I had in mind!!!!!
I only wish I hadda seen them when I had the $$ to rough one out with their Frame kit!!!

Those days are behind me now...unless I so happen to come into some money.

I'm still looking forward to IRS.......but after talking to lots of people within the last few days...VW's are the way to go....it's my goal in the foreseeable future!!!!!

 

[1550vt]

There is a guy named redneckray that frequents the forum. You will find him under the VW based trike section. Ray is a builder of VW machines, a great guy and should be a good resource.

Good luck!

 

[KDHUFF]

that orange one is something like I am planning. I have a swingaxle trans and a dualport engine to start it with just working on getting the metal to build with, when you have to drive an hour to get to town, its hard to shop around for materal to work with. I am going to build it close to onetonmagoo's style, but not using the rear torsion.
redneck ray builds some nice trikes, but i like the style of onetonmagoos and its something that I can do myself

 

[John Luciano]

OH yea! I like them BUT my garage is full and honey needs a place to park the CAR.

 

[Loner]

Bibs, I agree with your tastes - the styling of the CTA trikes is exactly what I've liked for many years.