2009 Tri Glide engine noise

[lzski326]

Well it looks like rebuild time, only 44,000 miles. Thought a lifter was clattering but found a front cylinder wrist pin was loose. Still trying to figure out what to do with it.
Mother Harley says I need to replace the Whole crank and rod assembly, I'm not buying into that yet.

 

[msocko3]

Define loose, was the circle clip gone? If the circle clip came out what kind of damage did it do to the cylinder, also where in the bottom end did it end up? Or is you rod end clearance just gotten big? If your rod end is messed up you could yank the crank and get with http://www.darkhorsecrankworks.com/ and have them rebuild your crank plus plug it. If you have them install their H beam rods and plug the crank you will have close to a bullet proof bottom end.

Their work is top notch, When I built my 120 I shipped empty cases too them and had them build me a crank and do the timken on the left side.

 

[lzski326]

An independent shop is doing the work on it. The wrist pin was just loose in the rod from wear I guess. We have a problem just trying to replace the rod bushings without going any farther into it. the crank end seems fine. You cant use a standard tool to remove the bushings and press in new ones. Harley tapered the sided of the rods so you cant push square against them.

 

[msocko3]

An independent shop is doing the work on it. The wrist pin was just loose in the rod from wear I guess. We have a problem just trying to replace the rod bushings without going any farther into it. the crank end seems fine. You cant use a standard tool to remove the bushings and press in new ones. Harley tapered the sided of the rods so you cant push square against them.

Good old Mother Harley doesn't want folks to be able to rebuild, they want folks to replace. If you look at the evolution of their engines over the years you can see it. The EVO was the last engine where you could almost rebuild and run it for ever if you had the mind to. If you don't want to do the Dark Horse rout, you can get a good replacement crank from S&S, the Harley crank is nothing but a bundle of troubles waiting to happen. Either the rebuilt or S&S unit will cost more than the Harley crank, but they'll last a whole lot longer.

 

[lzski326]

If we can get the rod bushings fixed, then I will probably just go 10 over pistons and a different cam and bearings. what would be the best choice for a cam for good low end torque? Either way this is going to get pricey. I also need a new clutch to add to it, plus new rear brakes again.

 

[trikermutha]

THis was one of my main reason for getting away from the Triglide for now. I was tired of wrenching on the dam thing. Should not have to do this kind of stuff.40K miles is nothing on a engine things should not be failing.

 

[tom w]

I went with S&S 551 e.z. start in a s.e. 110 & like it ok. wish I had went a little bigger like the 557. helps to get a little compression release when starting it. good luck with that wrist pin.

 

[turboman1354]

THis was one of my main reason for getting away from the Triglide for now. I was tired of wrenching on the dam thing. Should not have to do this kind of stuff.40K miles is nothing on a engine things should not be failing.

As much as I would like to have another Harley their lack of durability is the very reason I'd be scared to

 

[RickDeVon]

As much as I would like to have another Harley their lack of durability is the very reason I'd be scared to

...

Well I want a Harley trike for my last bike...never got a esp before but think I will go for the +5 years on the trike and just ride it...no trailer hitch for me...OP hope everything goes well on your motor work...I would just drop a S&S 124 in there and be done with it...

 

[Sloufoot]

THis was one of my main reason for getting away from the Triglide for now. I was tired of wrenching on the dam thing. Should not have to do this kind of stuff.40K miles is nothing on a engine things should not be failing.

So what did you go with to get away from Harley ?

 

[lzski326]

Well some more bad news, the crank is shot. Now to decide what S&S configuration to go with. Being its my first year of retirement, cost is going to be a big issue.
Any and all suggestions are welome.

 

[trikermutha]

Boy that's a tough one. Have the engine rebuilt by the Harley Program they have. Put in a new engine or like others have said go with better parts..either way it will cost some money..:xzqxz:

Good Luck

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Good old Mother Harley doesn't want folks to be able to rebuild, they want folks to replace. If you look at the evolution of their engines over the years you can see it. The EVO was the last engine where you could almost rebuild and run it for ever if you had the mind to. If you don't want to do the Dark Horse rout, you can get a good replacement crank from S&S, the Harley crank is nothing but a bundle of troubles waiting to happen. Either the rebuilt or S&S unit will cost more than the Harley crank, but they'll last a whole lot longer.

ThumbUpThumbUp

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Well some more bad news, the crank is shot. Now to decide what S&S configuration to go with. Being its my first year of retirement, cost is going to be a big issue.
Any and all suggestions are welome.

Here is my advice based on my experience.

I have been through what your dealing with. If you want good stump pulling power, build your engine as a either a 113 or a 117" with 10.0 compression . I prefer to suggest the 117"

Both will still use your stock crank rod length, 4 3/8" of course the option to rebuild your exisiting flywheel assembly by Dark Horse or buy a new S&S rod assembly with both be in the same ball park for cost.

Use S&S cylinders and pistons for the 117" if you go this route. Boring the engine case for either the 113" or the 117" will be the same. Harley 113" cylinders have been known for out of round issues brand new. Some shops have had to rebore them to .10 over to fix the issue.

Now for the Timken bearing sleeve install in your left engine case. It is a good thing but it isnt a expense you have to spend money on. Using both the SE lefty bearing in both the left and RIGHT engine case will be good and save you a few dollars. If you go with S&S make sure the flywheel is setup up in a truing stand to check it before its installed in the left case and the engine is assembled. Alway document your pinion runout before and after the flywheel is installed. This will also make sure your engine case bores are aligned correctly.

The engine case may need to have the cam relief opened up for the taller lobes of the cams depending on your choice. This is a minor expense and may need to be done when the engine case is apart.

Head work: You will need to have your stock heads cleaned up and ported to match the airflow for the cams you choose based on what your head ported recommends. Keep in mind when looking into cams think about how your normally ride. Horsepower isnt what your after. Its torque. The horsepower equation does not come into play until 5252 rpms. Torque moves mass, horsepower sustains the motion. The headwork will pick up the airflow needed to let your engine breath to make the power with the bigger pistons.

The stock oil pump and cam plate are fine and work very well. No need to spend extra on billet cam plates. You will have to replace your existing setup due to mileage and possible damage from metal wear

Use S&S, GMR, Wood, Black OPs lifters to name the good ones that are reliable. I have had good success with SE PREMIUM tapered adjustable pushrods. Just be careful with over tightening the adjuster nuts.

Cometic gaskets for the cylinder base and head gaskets. HD gaskets for most everything else

Breakin oil, I used Valvoline VR 20w50 Racing for the multiple oil changes during break in till I got to 2k miles on my 124". After that I prefer Mobile 1 20W/50 for the zinc content.

Buy a filter mag magnet for the oil filter and Dimple drain plug magnets for the engine case drain plug. You will catch all ferrous metal when your breaking in your engine. ( Which is normal )

I will be happy to answer any questions I can. I have been in your shoes with building both a 117" and now a 124" engine in my trike

Tom

 

[tom w]

the Harley rebuild program looks like a good option for you. at least you get a warrantee.
something to think about.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

the Harley rebuild program looks like a good option for you. at least you get a warrantee.
something to think about.

I think the warranty only works if the dealer removes and installs the reman engine

 

[tom w]

don't know but may still be worth it to look into. cam lifters and an oil pump cost me over $1500 at an independent shop. when you are looking at pulling the motor , replacing the crank ,.... $$$$$$$$

 

[msocko3]

I think the warranty only works if the dealer removes and installs the reman engine

You are correct, a dealer has to remove and install the engine.

 

[lzski326]

Too late for that, the motor is out and scattered all over the place.

 

[lzski326]

Well so far, we are going with an S&S 3-peice crank and rods, a S&S 106" big bore kit, and a new cam, I think the cam might be an S&S 551 not sure on that yet.

 

[msocko3]

Well so far, we are going with an S&S 3-peice crank and rods, a S&S 106" big bore kit, and a new cam, I think the cam might be an S&S 551 not sure on that yet.

Steer clear of the EZ Start cams, I've been reading where some folks have been having issues with them.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Steer clear of the EZ Start cams, I've been reading where some folks have been having issues with them.

:Agree:

 

[tom w]

Steer clear of the EZ Start cams, I've been reading where some folks have been having issues with them.

great ! that's what I have . what kind of issues ? no problems with mine yet as far as I know. have about 6,000 miles on it

 

[msocko3]

great ! that's what I have . what kind of issues ? no problems with mine yet as far as I know. have about 6,000 miles on it

A couple of the guys in this thread know their stuff http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/twin-cam-engine-mods/356746-s-s-easy-start-cams.html. One is a head porter who does great work and the other is a builder and tuner who does good. When they say they don't trust a product, I'm listening.

I've been a skeptic of the cam since it came out, more moving parts just leaves more things to go wrong. A valve train is a pretty high stressed environment, adding more moving parts is just asking for trouble.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

A couple of the guys in this thread know their stuff http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/twin-cam-engine-mods/356746-s-s-easy-start-cams.html. One is a head porter who does great work and the other is a builder and tuner who does good. When they say they don't trust a product, I'm listening.

I've been a skeptic of the cam since it came out, more moving parts just leaves more things to go wrong. A valve train is a pretty high stressed environment, adding more moving parts is just asking for trouble.

I read the same thing. I also agree with Mike 100% on the "more moving parts just leaves more things to go wrong" Im a fan of S&S and most of their parts, but I myself would not use the easy start cams

Gaterman 1023 Lifters have been showing up with issues here lately as well. They were the darlings of the engine builders last year. Not now

 

[SEAlaskan]

I read the same thing. I also agree with Mike 100% on the "more moving parts just leaves more things to go wrong" Im a fan of S&S and most of their parts, but I myself would not use the easy start cams

Gaterman 1023 Lifters have been showing up with issues here lately as well. They were the darlings of the engine builders last year. Not now

Is the problems with the Gaterman 1023 Lifters a recent thing? I think (not sure) that's what I installed in my 120r when I changed cams last year.
Butch

 

[msocko3]

Is the problems with the Gaterman 1023 Lifters a recent thing? I think (not sure) that's what I installed in my 120r when I changed cams last year.
Butch

Looks like a toss of a coin whether your in luck or not, you could inspect them if you have any reservations. I only use S&S premiums, Head-Quartes Black Ops or Woods Directional's. I'm running a set of S&S in my 120 right now, had some Black ops which I thought were getting noisy, turned out it wasn't the lifters, I think I have excess clearance in my rocker support. Here are some threads for your reading.

http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/topic,74661.0.html

http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/topic,71385.0.html

 

[lzski326]

They ended up ordering S&S 585 cams. S&S suggested that with the compression of the 106 kit. As far as easy start I forgot to ask them.

 

[msocko3]

They ended up ordering S&S 585 cams. S&S suggested that with the compression of the 106 kit. As far as easy start I forgot to ask them.

Since you already have ACR's (Automatic Compression Releases) I would assume they are smart enough not to get the EZ Starts. The 585 should get the job done since the 106 kit does bump the compression up a couple points. What lifters are they going to install? Hope they stick with S&S instead of the trashy Harley 'C' lifters.

 

[SEAlaskan]

Looks like a toss of a coin whether your in luck or not, you could inspect them if you have any reservations. I only use S&S premiums, Head-Quartes Black Ops or Woods Directional's. I'm running a set of S&S in my 120 right now, had some Black ops which I thought were getting noisy, turned out it wasn't the lifters, I think I have excess clearance in my rocker support. Here are some threads for your reading.

http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/topic,74661.0.html

http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/topic,71385.0.html

So far i don't think I have a problem with the lifters, I only have about 2000 miles on the 120. I didn't get much riding time in this summer do to various reasons. Hopefully today I'll get a chance to put some miles on the engineThumbUp. Right now (8:21 AM) the out side temp is 33 degrees, so will have to wait tell this afternoon. Thank you for the two web pages.
Butch