Just came out that three more sheriff deputies showed up at that Florida high school and did not enter the building, instead crouched behind their cars. It wasn't until the local police arrived that any peace officer entered. I can see the possibility of a ton of lawsuits for dereliction of duty. Geez.
No firearms until you're 21....
- Thread starter peteg59
- Start date
You know If they have a badge and carry a gun and say their on duty 24/7 ....Then they have to run to the shots, .....The fastest way to stop a shooter is to shoot back....
Jack Klarich
Guest
True, once a cop you are always a cop 24/7
The three cops arriving on scene may not have had orders YET to enter, maybe just contain the area and survey the info?
Broward County Sheriffs
RedOregon
300+ Posts
When? Where? Got any source for that?
It was back in the late 70's I think. Lived in Arlington, Texas at the time. maybe the mid 70's. hadn't been back from the Navy very long.
Texas did but it was in the early 70s. I was there. But alcohol was readily available to us underage children through older brothers, cousins, friends, bootleggers, you name it, before the change. I do not know why the legislature decided to change it back to 18, but I do not recall that there was any more incidence of being drunk in school/college that would have caused the change. By that time I didn't care, I was 21. :gah:
So it was analogous to the assault rifle discussion. They could take away our liquor but those of us who wanted it, could get it anyway. I still remember the way to the shack where you could get a pint on a Friday night if needed. Same with ARs for underage buyers. If a 17 year old today wants an AR, I think the law making that purchase illegal is only be a slight impediment.
RedOregon
300+ Posts
Bingo.
peteg59
Meme Master
- Thread starter
- #39
There is a serious flaw in that way of thinking on guns.
You might get a slap on the wrist for buying booze while "underage", due to the likely charges being misdemeanors.
However, if charged with a firearm violation, those charges are likely going to be felonies. These are also now going to be potentially upped to Federal vs municipal level prosecutions.
ATF doesn't like firearms falling into the wrong hands especially if the transfer of a firearm was done in a criminal setting, in which a 17 y/o getting an AR would most certainly be.
"Apples to Oranges" on the booze > firearm analogy.....
vwbug72501
700+ Posts
So here's a question. If the firearms/ammo sale age is upped to 21, what is the status of those who join the military at 18 and are trained and go off to defend our freedoms?
They would be exempt.....Back when i was under 21 i carried a full auto 16, Claymores and grenades , And two LAW'S....
peteg59
Meme Master
- Thread starter
- #42
^...This. Crazy as it may sound...
"Junior" or entry level Military members are also under close supervision while handling firearms and other munitions.
When I joined at age 19 in the late 70's, we could only drink the watered down draft beer in the base enlisted clubs. No bottled/canned beer or hard liquor until age 21. That was a bit of a joke as there were always "buddies" who were 21, and would buy the hard liquor for us if we wanted it.
Also, nobody was supposed to be carrying a civilian firearm on base anywhere for any reason. < Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure that applies on all of our military bases to this day.
When i went in [65] i lived in Brooklyn NY, And the drinking age was 18 at the time....But in Tacoma 'Lewis it was 21...Cultural shock for me:laugh:
I went in the military at 17 & some states gun laws are different for active duty personal.
vwbug72501
700+ Posts
I was just wondering what their status would be in the civilian world and when home on leave?
Jack Klarich
Guest
Florida has a stand your ground law
"A person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself," the Florida law states.Jul 3, 2017
At 17 I had to go before the base commander in order to sell beer to the regular inlisted that came in the PX in Missouri. I was under age for the state but the base commander said if his recruits at 17 could die fighting for our freedom then I as a civilian could sell him beer. It was totally up to the base commander and once off base I went back to regular under age status for the state. It seemed weird but that's how it worked. This was back in late 60's at Richards-Gebaur Air Force Base. Commonly called Dickey Goober. Was a SAC base but not anymore from what I've been told.
Here is what trum and FOX haad to say about that!
Trump: "I like taking guns away early," Trump said. "Take the guns first, go through due process second."
Apparently, the constitution is to be ignored.
Fifth Amendment to US Constitution:
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Fourteenth amendment:
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
FOX agrees:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/03/01/tucker-carlson-rips-trump-gun-control-remarks-due-process-right-second-amendment
Some people only like the constitution when it's convenient.
Trump: "I like taking guns away early," Trump said. "Take the guns first, go through due process second."
Apparently, the constitution is to be ignored.
Fifth Amendment to US Constitution:
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Fourteenth amendment:
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
FOX agrees:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/03/01/tucker-carlson-rips-trump-gun-control-remarks-due-process-right-second-amendment
Some people only like the constitution when it's convenient.
peteg59
Meme Master
- Thread starter
- #51
A few people feel that a military soldier at age 18 handling firearms while on duty, under direct supervision, is the same as a civilian at age 18 handling weapons at large on the street or elsewhere without supervision. Those folks couldn't be more wrong. The analogy just doesn't hold water when examined further.
Military members whose job it is to handle firearms cannot typically take the weapons off base, or back to their barracks unless they are cleared to do so.
Weapons are kept under strict lock & key in armories when not in use.
Military members no matter their age, are not allowed to carry a "civilian" acquired weapon concealed or possess a "civilian" firearm on any base.
Out on the battlefield, they eat, sleep, etc. with them, but again under direct supervision.
Raising the age to purchase long guns won't stop the senseless random killings but it will slow them down, as an underage individual will have to get creative in order to be able to possess a firearm, and or purchase ammo to feed said weapon...
Do you really expect any consistency from Trump? Since when.
no firearms until 21
the big problem,they knew he had a problem,but they didnt want to do anything about it.the school superintindent did not want to lose funding .the sheriff dept,fbi and others knew,he was putting out on internet what he was going to do,then we have the 4 cowards,then there is the 2 swat team members that go into trouble trying to help.more bs.but lets make more guns laws,ya right.if that sheriff would have did his job i think no one would have got hurt.shooters should not be be the news .alot of them try to out do other shooters ,like some.they want to go down in history. afiring squad on national tv would slow alot of this down.
the big problem,they knew he had a problem,but they didnt want to do anything about it.the school superintindent did not want to lose funding .the sheriff dept,fbi and others knew,he was putting out on internet what he was going to do,then we have the 4 cowards,then there is the 2 swat team members that go into trouble trying to help.more bs.but lets make more guns laws,ya right.if that sheriff would have did his job i think no one would have got hurt.shooters should not be be the news .alot of them try to out do other shooters ,like some.they want to go down in history. afiring squad on national tv would slow alot of this down.
ISP-FL
600+ Posts
Prior to my retirement (2010) most local, country, and state police agencies were required to go through Active Shooter Training. The old fashion theory of securing the outside and waiting for appropriate backup to arrive went right out the window. We were trained to immediately go inside and try to stop the active shooter as quickly as possible.
I have a hard time finding fault with the first officers to respond to the latest Florida school shooting, or even with the resource officer assigned to the school who was reported to have ran out of the school. The reason I'm not saying they were wrong is because the only facts to go on is what the news media is reporting, and if there is one thing we all should have picked up on in the last few years is that the major news outlets often times "suggest" things when denied all the facts when a major story is breaking. I will wait until all the official facts are investigated and released, but if they waited to go in then they should be fired and if possible prosecuted.
ISP-FL
600+ Posts
As much as I am all for the 2nd amendment and against almost any and all gun control, I have to agree that there has to be a minimum age for purchasing and possessing firearms with this generation.
Many of these kids, from the time they are 5 or 6 years old, have been allowed to play realistic video games that involve shooting people. A few years ago I dropped in at my son's house and my two grandsons (7 and 9 at the time) were in the basement playing a violent video game based on VM action. They were throwing grenades and killing "dinks" with their M16's on automatic. It was a very realistic scene on the big screen TV.
My point is simple, this young generation has been exposed to all kinds of violence with these video games that no other generation has had. When we were in high school and had an issue with another kid there might be a fist fight after school. When my son's were in school it was about the same method of settling their differences. Now a kid get mad or gets picked on and he comes back to school with his AR-15 and starts killing everyone just like he has witnessed on dozens of video games played out in his basement for most of his young life.
No firearms until 21 years old should just be the start. Ban violent video games or start taxing them so much they cost about $500 each, then use the extra money for juvenile mental health because this young generation certainly will need it.
How long before the highly educated elected governing body in Washington decide that the mind controls the killing power of the gun and legislates mind control? Should a masters degree and have attained the age of 21 be a mandatory requirement to be elected to congress?
no firearms until 21
how about the 2 snipers that stopped to help.then were disaplined?
how about the 2 snipers that stopped to help.then were disaplined?
TonkaDriver
450+ Posts
Adult Rights and Responsibilities
Time to raise the age of adulthood to 21. What all these people saying the age to buy a firearm should be 21 should think about this a little more. If a person is to be held responsible as an adult should according to the 14th Amendment be afforded all rights of adulthood. That said what do you tell the 20 year old wife of a deployed soldier who has 2 kids and wishes to protect her children? We as a society will hold her to adult standards. We as a society must also afford her the rights of an adult. This younger generation are growing up in a society that does not value the life and rights of the individual. We allow abortion to be used as birth control while at the same time are outraged when a well known psycho shoots up a school.
Make no mistake. Gun control aka safety advocates only wish to disarm the citizenry for only one reason. Control. If they can get you to modify or abolish a constitutional right they will just move on to the next and the next. Individual responsibility and individual accountability is what needs to become the norm again in our society.
Time to raise the age of adulthood to 21. What all these people saying the age to buy a firearm should be 21 should think about this a little more. If a person is to be held responsible as an adult should according to the 14th Amendment be afforded all rights of adulthood. That said what do you tell the 20 year old wife of a deployed soldier who has 2 kids and wishes to protect her children? We as a society will hold her to adult standards. We as a society must also afford her the rights of an adult. This younger generation are growing up in a society that does not value the life and rights of the individual. We allow abortion to be used as birth control while at the same time are outraged when a well known psycho shoots up a school.
Make no mistake. Gun control aka safety advocates only wish to disarm the citizenry for only one reason. Control. If they can get you to modify or abolish a constitutional right they will just move on to the next and the next. Individual responsibility and individual accountability is what needs to become the norm again in our society.
My friends, I believe that the people in power should think of mental health closer as most mass shootings are from those suffering from it(my .02).
Then when do these children become adults(18) I think not, they claim to be just Kids but yet want to vote people out if they don't do as they ask(not good) just another way of getting their way. They won't grow up just because of a number.
Make penalties stiffer and stop the mental cruelty to those on death row by carrying out the sentences and you'll see that people will stop committing crimes because of the actual use of the death penalty for those who really deserve it.
Sorry, people blame the gun but nobody blames the auto or vehicle driven also my spoon has made me fat so we need to rid ourselves of that evil tool.
Ken
Then when do these children become adults(18) I think not, they claim to be just Kids but yet want to vote people out if they don't do as they ask(not good) just another way of getting their way. They won't grow up just because of a number.
Make penalties stiffer and stop the mental cruelty to those on death row by carrying out the sentences and you'll see that people will stop committing crimes because of the actual use of the death penalty for those who really deserve it.
Sorry, people blame the gun but nobody blames the auto or vehicle driven also my spoon has made me fat so we need to rid ourselves of that evil tool.
Ken
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