Down Shifting for a slow-down

[mgwtrike]

Do you riders, when anticipating to slow down or a stop, down shift to lower gears?
Will that apply to much torque/wear on the transmission.
Cheers!

 

[rhino 2]

Do you riders, when anticipating to slow down or a stop, down shift to lower gears?
Will that apply to much torque/wear on the transmission.
Cheers!

I do it all the time with no lii effects... And thats with all the bikes,Trikes, And cars/trucks i ever owned.
The one caveat is if i have to make a panic stop ' like stop now or hit something , No down shifting, Full on the clutch and both brakes... There isn't a toque converter on a manual transmission like on an Auto trans so with the clutch not fully disengaged the engine will be fighting against the brakes...

 

[CrystalPistol]

Yeah, on all my manuals, Mustang, Subaru, the two GLs and my Trident ..... I downshift matching RPMs. On the cars it means a pause as I come through neutral to blip throttle, on bikes it's just add a blip as I shift .... no popping clutch ..... I ease it out quickly.

If a panic stop, I will nail the brakes and let anti loc do it's deal and I'll get the clutch in a moment later and slip trans in neutral and ready to do whatever is needed next. If higher speed, I'll slip it in 2nd or some other lower gear but maybe hold the clutch in until I see what is needed.

On the bikes or trike, if a panic stop, I'm concentrating most on frt & rr braking pressures and looking for avenues of escape but I'm also pulling in clutch and cycling down through the trans gears .... with the idea that I can get braking from it if needed or at the very least ..... be in a go gear when needed.

I've been doing pretty much same since my first manual, a 1969 VW Beetle I had in 1971-72.

 

[schiel1]

I read an article from Stu Altman the GWRRA MC Tech. in the Wing World Magazine where he stated NEVER shift into 1st without coming to a full stop first.

 

[mgwtrike]

I read an article from Stu Altman the GWRRA MC Tech. in the Wing World Magazine where he stated NEVER shift into 1st without coming to a full stop first.

Did he say why??

 

[rhino 2]

Did he say why??

Full stop is overboard.... When i'm going 5mph or less i drop into first without even thinking about it...

 

[don graham]

I downshift all the time. Just bring the RPM's up to match. I go into first but only when I'm almost to the stop.

 

[mhgoldwing]

I routinely downshift everything I ride/drive. On the Wing I normally do not downshift into first because it is simply too low. The exception is when I am descending a steep grade and need long term engine braking.

 

[JaysGone]

I guess Im just the opposite. Off the gas hit the rear brake add front brake as needed. As Im about to stop. Squeeze clutch into neutral once Im at almost a full stop.
I haven't downshifted in my cars or bikes in a looooong time. Just got lazy I guess no ill effects. I hate to admit it. Left over from my road racing days. No clutch upshifting or down back then.
I haven't used a clutch upshifting, well I cant remember when I used a clutch to upshift 2nd through 5th. Only time I use the clutch is 1st through neutral to 2nd. I never shift into 1st while Im moving.
To me its all about rpm control. Power shifting's the fun part of driving or riding. Ask any racer. They all will say clutch?? whats a clutch for??

 

[Gold Rush]

On most of our trike conversions the drive shaft and maybe CV joints are the weak link. Except for the few that have true "in line" drive shafts, down shifting is just adding one more un-necessary stress factor. Yes it cool and reminds us of the old days when we could "HOT ROD" the bikes. Think about it -- probably not the best slowing down procedure if you are concerned about limiting the drive component failure... Will it or won't it. I'm guessing nobody will ever gather those statistics. My take is: Why Risk It..... :xszpv: :xszpv:

 

[mgwtrike]

On most of our trike conversions the drive shaft and maybe CV joints are the weak link. Except for the few that have true "in line" drive shafts

Your right about drive shafts being a weak link.
I visited my trike converter and he was in the process of switching one conversion
to another because the owner didn't like the one he had for some reason.

I looked at how small the diameter was on that drive shaft was and couldn't believe my eyes compared
to the Roadsmith unit he was installing.

Maybe when choosing a trike kit we should look at the size of the drive units.

 

[bikerbillone]

Interesting thread, particularly the stress factor on the drive shaft and components. I know there are many out there that have down shifted for many miles of riding wit no ill effects, but it is food for thought.

 

[schiel1]

Did he say why??

Sorry. I spent an hour looking through past issues with no luck. But if memory is correct, I believe it had to do with the tendency of the tranny gears teeth not synced and become worn and then causing failures(Sorry for not having all the technical terms, I am tranny ignorant)  For me though I can say that the clunking that the bike makes when down shifting into first unless you are stopped or a higher speed is too much for my comfort level. Goldwings are too expensive to repair. I do not down shift and (personally) see no need for it. For all the stories you hear of the transmission failures whether they are true or not, for me I would rather play it safe and use my brakes since that is what they were meant for. But that's just me. I shift as smooth as I can and enjoy the ride.

 

[Livin2Ride]

I've had a lot of bikes over the last 56 years of a lot different makes. Of all of the ones I bought and got a Owners Manual with, I can't recall a single one that didn't say to downshift all the way to first and most had a chart of sorts that showed the speed and gear to be used. That would include my latest TriGlide. I run up and down thru the gears at every start and stop including panic stops.

 

[JaysGone]

I agree with Jerry 100% about stress on the components. While I have never damaged a drive shaft racing to the point of failure. Universals have gone. I did break one transmission and that was when I did down shift. It was my 83 Thunder Bird Turbo Coupe. Cracked the inner case where the gear pack sits. Car drove fine till I had stopped for the day and couldn't get it in any gear it seized up. As long as one has straight cut gears its OK<when matching rpms> to up shift less the clutch. Down shifting clutch less isn't for everyone. Takes knowing your rpm range and having the right feel. When one is racing no need to down shift till you come to a stop. For me its brake until you feel your about to stall then grab or push in the clutch. The only downshifting I do today with a clutch is say in traffic. Going from 5th to say 4th or 3rd. Under normal riding conditions its 5th slowing down to a stop apply the brakes as soon as one is about to stall. Grab the clutch, shift into neutral come to a full stop. Never shifting into 1st while still moving. If Im slowing down but not coming to a complete stop its 2nd and take off again as traffic allows.
The best deal was the day we discovered Jericho Transmissions. Best racing gear box ever made. As long as what ever Im driving or riding. If it has straight cut gears. Clutch?? what clutch,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[schiel1]

I guess it's all out your comfort level (and your bank account)
.

 

[rhino 2]

Lotta over thinking going on......

 

[JaysGone]

Lotta over thinking going on......

Yup. Very over thought.
As far as Im concerned 250K miles over the last 40+ years on 2 wheels doing what I do which is never downshift. And upshift less then more using the clutch hasn't cost me a cent.
Never broke or bent or replaced anything on a bike drive line related. Till I gots me this Wing and the driveshaft went. Which wasn't Hondas.
Cant say the same for a car. Broke one manual and that wasn't even when racing. Just 9 hours in 5th at 75mph. So crap can happen.
Odds it wont.
Only thing Ive heard negative about the GW transmission isn't in the gears. Just a weak ass shifting fork. Ive had a ghost shift or 10 with mine, 4th to 3rd. Happened yesterday as a matter of fact.
But as we all know. Honda says it doesn't exist.
But then neither did a possibly bad secondary brake master cylinder. Till it did.
So who knows guys??
Just ride and be safe.

 

[CrystalPistol]

I looked at how small the diameter was on that drive shaft was and couldn't believe my eyes compared
to the Roadsmith unit he was installing.

I'm sure it was at least as large as the OEM bike's driveshaft? The transmission output shaft likely isn't any larger. Cars, trucks, etc generally use larger tube shafts to make the lightest drive shaft capable of transmitting the power while resisting whipping over longer distances between U-joints. Trikes tend to have pretty short shafts in comparison.

For me though I can say that the clunking that the bike makes when down shifting into first unless you are stopped or a higher speed is too much for my comfort level.

When down shifting it makes life much easier on the transmission to attempt to match RPMs to road speed for the next lower gear as you down shift, which means that yes, you can shift into first ..... but you should only be shifting into first at road speeds you would normally find your self going in first gear anyway.

Example, never try to shift into 2nd or 1st at 50 mph. Even with the clutch held in, the clutch disc themselves will have to spin up to a horrendous high speed, especially on that 1st at 50 .... and then you have to hold the clutch in until more speed is scrubbed because to let it out will mean extreme rpms for the engine or transmission or drive train ..... and may easily cause $$$ damage and a rear wheel lockup or skid. Usually I am in first gear before stopping, likely go to it about 15-20 mph down shifting. 5-4, 4-3, 3-2 may occur at higher engine speeds, by time I'm ready for 2-1st I'm close to a stop anyway.

Don't downshift through all the gears as fast as possible, just take it one gear at a time dropping to the gear you'ld normally be in at the same road speed if accelerating normally. There's a "feel" you develop, a "sound" of the engine you get accustomed to.

Practice in empty parking lots under zero stress is good!

 

[SMSgt]

Sometimes I downshift some times I coast to a stop then shift down to 1st. To me it is no big deal either way. My Roadsmith conversion has full sized car U-joints and a Ford car diff. I don't worry a great deal about abusing any of the components.
I have done Run For The Wall 3 times (that's enough for me) while on the ride they tell all riders to not use their brakes. You are supposed to downshift under all circumstances. My response was a resounding screw you, breaks are too important to not use in a mass migration like that. They say that if you just touch your brakes it causes your brake light to come on and that confuses the riders behind you and then they hit their brakes.
Anyway I think that was a little much to ask of riders. And as for downshifting or not, it's like voting do what you want. If it breaks it breaks if it doesn't ride on.

 

[schiel1]

Sometimes I downshift some times I coast to a stop then shift down to 1st. To me it is no big deal either way. My Roadsmith conversion has full sized car U-joints and a Ford car diff. I don't worry a great deal about abusing any of the components.
I have done Run For The Wall 3 times (that's enough for me) while on the ride they tell all riders to not use their brakes. You are supposed to downshift under all circumstances. My response was a resounding screw you, breaks are too important to not use in a mass migration like that. They say that if you just touch your brakes it causes your brake light to come on and that confuses the riders behind you and then they hit their brakes.
Anyway I think that was a little much to ask of riders. And as for downshifting or not, it's like voting do what you want. If it breaks it breaks if it doesn't ride on.

Personally, I am not comfortable driving behind a person in car or bike that is downshifting. It's hard to tell if they are slowing down and sometimes it's too late. Brake lights are there to tell the person behind them that you are slowing or stopping.
I find it amazing with some of these organizations or benefit rides you go on how unsafe they can be to ride with. A few years ago I rode with the Blue Angels and once we pulled off on a rest stop with about 10 bikes once finished the tail gunner actually drove his bike into the right lane, blocking traffic and then waved the bikes on to get on the merge lane. Scarred the crap out of me. This was on I-75 in South Florida with a speed limit of 70. Needless to say I never rode with them again.
Actually as I write this I am getting ready to leave and take a Trike Riding Course put on by our GWRRA District. It's a 6 hour (3 classroom & 3 riding) safety course. Never can learn too much...

 

[bikerbillone]

Well said, brake lights are there for good reason, I try to blink mine several times before coming to a stop. Those preferring to down shift, blinking the brake lights with a light touch of the front brake lever is a good idea.

 

[mhgoldwing]

Done right I don't think downshifting hurts anything. My Roadsmith has automotive Driveshaft, CV joints and differential all designed to handle more weight and horsepower than I have by a factor of 2 to 3 minimum. Downshifting in the Arkansas twisties is a necessity as we climb and descend hills; it is not just for braking.

 

[hisst]

Downshifting

Done right I don't think downshifting hurts anything. My Roadsmith has automotive Driveshaft, CV joints and differential all designed to handle more weight and horsepower than I have by a factor of 2 to 3 minimum. Downshifting in the Arkansas twisties is a necessity as we climb and descend hills; it is not just for braking.

I downshift all the time on my RS and have 72,000 miles on the original rear brakes. Hisst

 

[redjetty]

Done right I don't think downshifting hurts anything. My Roadsmith has automotive Driveshaft, CV joints and differential all designed to handle more weight and horsepower than I have by a factor of 2 to 3 minimum. Downshifting in the Arkansas twisties is a necessity as we climb and descend hills; it is not just for braking.

AGREEd