Shaky shaky head big sigh shovelhead

[Downtown Cowtown]

Have shaky bike, it has a fork brace, and a new trike tire zero miles balanced of course, rear end measures straight. 15 pounds air in rear tires Ive run for 35years at 12lbs now 15lbs.

Tightened fork stem till it quit and backed off a notch. Originally in a stock frame, it was tweaked, i changed it out for a supposedly stock reman, its 2inch tall in the front legs and the rear seat is dropped.

Front end is a Kenny p, raked tree adjustable, with 10in over forks, when i had the Harley raked trees 6 over but needing 8 or i never had this prob.

Before i go back to a 10 over with Harley trees Im going to put a adjustable steering dampener on it. If that don't fix it, Im outta options.

Im into suggestions from the elect, that means you.

 

[Sidecarbill]

You should measure the trail on that setup. Hard 2 tell from the picture but it almost looks 0 or negative.

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

You should measure the trail on that setup. Hard 2 tell from the picture but it almost looks 0 or negative.

Ordered a pair of stabilizers shocks off evil bay. If that don't cut it, i don't know what will, if it don't i will pull the rake in some more, pat Kennedy trees. Or just change the front end, big sigh, good news i got the front minus the tubes.

i^ll post better pics from the side later, thanks

 

[stacebg]

Have shaky bike, it has a fork brace, and a new trike tire zero miles balanced of course, rear end measures straight. 15 pounds air in rear tires Ive run for 35years at 12lbs now 15lbs. Tightened fork stem till it quit and backed off a notch. Originally in a stock frame, it was tweaked, i changed it out for a supposedly stock reman, its 2inch tall in the front legs and the rear seat is dropped. Front end is a Kenny p, raked tree adjustable, with 10in over forks, when i had the Harley raked trees 6 over but needing 8 or i never had this prob. Before i go back to a 10 over with Harley trees Im going to put a adjustable steering dampener on it. If that don't fix it, Im outta options. with the extend forks i wonder what you have for trail.. becuase when you add the longer tube the fron end become higher and that will increas the trai.. lift the fr Im into suggestions from the elect, that means you. View attachment 33188View attachment 33189

wonder what the trail is... with extended tubes the trail is bigger because it lifts the front of the frame..
i am betting you still have too much trail... i find around and inch an a half work for me.. some dont like it that short but works for me
i just sold my harley trike with a vette rear and have a v max with a mazda rear both have harley adjustable trees and about 2inches over stock tubes neither ever had a damper.. the yamaha i can drive forever with one hand the harley had to be careful with one hand it might shake just a little but soon as you put your other hand on it stopped...totally manageable the trail was just a little longer on the harley
is it pretty good till you hit a bump or does it shake all the time ?

 

[butchvoss]

boy i had a low speed shake on my home built that ripped my stabilizers out and i had two. It only happened if i hit three bumps in a row under 30 MPH.. My trike was just not safe. I did have 2 inch of trail but something was just not right. I went to building a leading link with the help of members here.. Im sure you will figure it out and when you do please let us all know what the fix was.

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

Heres a band aid that might work for the slow head shake that Ive never experienced before, Grrrrrrrr, why now. ?

ABOUT $170 OFF EVIL BAY. COMMENTS ANYONE. ??? THEY BE IN THE MAIL I DO BELIEVE.

 

[butchvoss]

I broke the brackets of two just like that when my steering head went nuts the last time.. lol Heck i pulled back on the bars and hit the brakes and they still broke, Mine only shook under 30 but last time was so violent it scarred the poop out of me.. Never did it above 30 and i put about 500 miles on it last summer. I tried a band aid fix with adding more rake. helped an awfull lot but did not fix for me. I think i just had way to much front end weight for the gold wing forks.

 

[stacebg]

I broke the brackets of two just like that when my steering head went nuts the last time.. lol Heck i pulled back on the bars and hit the brakes and they still broke, Mine only shook under 30 but last time was so violent it scarred the poop out of me.. Never did it above 30 and i put about 500 miles on it last summer. I tried a band aid fix with adding more rake. helped an awfull lot but did not fix for me. I think i just had way to much front end weight for the gold wing forks.

you went more rake? or raked the trees?
under or at about 30 seems to be the killer speed for shake .. sidecars as well as trike... doesnt seem to be any rhyme or reason... i dont believe to much weight is a cause of the shake if the steering is hard which i am assuming is the case.... you have too much trail...

- - - Updated - - -

Heres a band aid that might work for the slow head shake that Ive never experienced before, Grrrrrrrr, why now. ?

ABOUT $170 OFF EVIL BAY. COMMENTS ANYONE. ???View attachment 33312 THEY BE IN THE MAIL I DO BELIEVE.

imho it "IS" just a band aid..
i personally i would opt for trying to fix the problem
does your trike steer hard??
another hing that will cause shake.. if the stem bearings have the slightest wear it will cause shake.. had a tike with same issue the races had the slightest dent / dimple almost didnt notice it... put in new and was fine!!
for future ref iou need stabilizers and if you can make the mount vw beetle stabilizers work real well about 25 or 30 $ least the used to be

let us knopw

 

[butchvoss]

I raked the trees. The guys on this forum helped me figure what was wrong.

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

you went more rake? or raked the trees?
under or at about 30 seems to be the killer speed for shake .. sidecars as well as trike... doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason... i don't believe to much weight is a cause of the shake if the steering is hard which i am assuming is the case.... you have too much trail...

- - - Updated - - -



imho it"IS" just a band aid..
i personally i would opt for trying to fix the problem
does your trike steer hard??
another hing that will cause shake.. if the stem bearings have the slightest wear it will cause shake.. had a tike with same issue the races had the slightest dent / dimple almost didn't notice it... put in new and was fine!!
for future ref you need stabilizers and if you can make the mount vw beetle stabilizers work real well about 25 or 30 $ least the used to be

let us know

Used to be is right, oriellys is 69 bucks and pretty much so is evil bay.


New neck bearings outta the box. races also. cups also.

Tis disappointing since before the frame, front end change it never happened. Ugh. Coulda saved $660 on the frame and the grief that comes with changing it. And the expense of pat Kennedy trees and on and on.

Jus disappointing,in in all ways.

Im in it to win it, the lady is jus wishing i would finish it out, so she could ride.

Life is difficult. When it comes to rake an trail. I can bring the rake in a bit, only took a 4ft crowbar last time to line it all up. Ugh, then shorten the tubes, then shorten the brake lines then then. You get the idea. :xzqxz:

 

[stacebg]

Used to be is right, oriellys is 69 bucks and pretty much so is evil bay.


New neck bearings outta the box. races also. cups also.

Tis disappointing since before the frame, front end change it never happened. Ugh. Coulda saved $660 on the frame and the grief that comes with changing it. And the expense of pat Kennedy trees and on and on.

Jus disappointing,in in all ways.

Im in it to win it, the lady is jus wishing i would finish it out, so she could ride.

Life is difficult. When it comes to rake an trail. I can bring the rake in a bit, only took a 4ft crowbar last time to line it all up. Ugh, then shorten the tubes, then shorten the brake lines then then. You get the idea. :xzqxz:

guess its been a while since i bought one....
have you tried to figure how much trail you have??

 

[Lee H. Mann]

raked trees

Try measuring the trail. Photos look lake too much negative...

 

[Loner]

Lotsa expert craftsmen on this forum ready to offer the help with your problem, but all unstable front end analyses orient around a few basic facts, the primary of which is 'trail'. Take a few moments and 'fill in the blank' by measuring and letting us all know your true trail value is to get us all on the same page. I personally believe that your problem will begin to solve itself as soon as that value is determined. While you are measuring also share with us; 1) the neck rake on your frame, and 2) the additional rake dialed in by the triple trees.

Practical engineering (i.e., trial and error) tought us about how to apply our book-learnings to improve front end stability on a trike, but it always comes back to the '2-planed geometry' layout of a design to show us the most effective route to improve it.

One other tip - never underestimate the effect that rear tires/alignments/etc. will have on front end stability. Even one rear tire being slightly out of balance can produce a major reaction in the front forks. (But it sounds like you've already double-checked most of that).

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

OK girls here we go, if the pics download. Installing the stabilizer, of course i didn't think it was a bolt on, and its not. Since the bracket is bigger than the frame tube. Ugh.

To be expected, but my lead tech being a smart feller, took half my idea, i saw a set of Harley handlebars up, with the knurling, cut out of the bars and split, then wrapped around the tube, better yet lead tech breaks a hack saw blade piece off to put next to the tube, then the shim made outta the knurled handled bar to keep the bracket from slipping, hacksaw blade keeps the shim from slipping, damn smart on his part i would have never thought of it.

Almost installed. Progress report coming.

Also have magnets on outside my tool box drawers, well once drawer came out then all came out top and bottom and almost impaled him on the bike table, drew blood, then my neighbor came by, Viola, straps on box and 3 bad backs pulling up the Titanic of tool boxes, now its shimmed up in front and no fall, Take my experience and make it your own.

having PROBLEMS DOWNLOADING PICS, GOT IT DONE, BUT I CHECK THE BOX AND IT STILL NO DOWNLOAD, BIG SIGH.

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

Im pretty much unimpressed with the shock setup, its a Daytona, sold by many for more than i paid. Ad shows a two set up which is what i thought i was to get.

Seller sent one, Ive notified them im short, the ad no say take you pick, it shows 2 and says one like a kit ? So emailed them, waiting for them to tell me im stupid.

Ill let eBay takem on. The shock itself has little if any resistance. If its nitro filled, its gone, at least to me, if its hydraulic its never been filled.

Beware if ya buy this kit or one like it, seems substandard to me. Kit i paid $159 for others Ive seen almost twice the price and its same same.

Never had this problem with a extended Harley front end of 6inchs on a stock frame, with Harley raked trees, others Ive built using a narrow glide with a permanent 10degree rake tree handled like a cat on a hot stove.

Guess i could cut down the legs on this road king front end and use the similar in nature top caps on the stock Harley raked trees, and hog out the lower tree to 41mm.

Go with the cover and the fat boy headlight. As a last resort that might be my last option.

In all fairness my head shake was slight. At slow speed, no more than 20mph, faster than that no shake, which is the nature of a raked out frame. That^s why some put a 21incher on the front of the old style scoots to help with the flip flop on the front at slow speed.

Back to the drawing board and i will measure the trail, thanks for the depiction of the bike and measuring trail.

If your looking for a shock set up similar to this, don't buy this one. MO. Its sold under many names on eBay, but you can tell by looking its same same. Save you money and buy or build something else, altho i like the brackets on this one.

So far i cant upgrade to a ohlin shock that Ive seen as they are 8 ball shaped. Hundreds of shocks on eBay, all from Thailand, china. and Timbuktu.

Suggestions ? overall about 15inches long, 1 inch od. about a 5inch stroke, and no almost 100 percent of the sellers don't list the details.

Rode it awhile ago, turn loose the handle bars almost no shake, but bike will pull to the right if handlebars are unattended at slow speed. Was hoping the shock would help hold her straighter than that.

That^s my story and how its unfolding, whats your experience. ???

 

[stacebg]

Im pretty much unimpressed with the shock setup, its a Daytona, sold by many for more than i paid. Ad shows a two set up which is what i thought i was to get.

Seller sent one, Ive notified them im short, the ad no say take you pick, it shows 2 and says one like a kit ? So emailed them, waiting for them to tell me im stupid.

Ill let eBay takem on. The shock itself has little if any resistance. If its nitro filled, its gone, at least to me, if its hydraulic its never been filled.

Beware if ya buy this kit or one like it, seems substandard to me. Kit i paid $159 for others Ive seen almost twice the price and its same same.

Never had this problem with a extended Harley front end of 6inchs on a stock frame, with Harley raked trees, others Ive built using a narrow glide with a permanent 10degree rake tree handled like a cat on a hot stove.

Guess i could cut down the legs on this road king front end and use the similar in nature top caps on the stock Harley raked trees, and hog out the lower tree to 41mm.

Go with the cover and the fat boy headlight. As a last resort that might be my last option.

In all fairness my head shake was slight. At slow speed, no more than 20mph, faster than that no shake, which is the nature of a raked out frame. That^s why some put a 21incher on the front of the old style scoots to help with the flip flop on the front at slow speed.

Back to the drawing board and i will measure the trail, thanks for the depiction of the bike and measuring trail.

If your looking for a shock set up similar to this, don't buy this one. MO. Its sold under many names on eBay, but you can tell by looking its same same. Save you money and buy or build something else, altho i like the brackets on this one.

So far i cant upgrade to a ohlin shock that Ive seen as they are 8 ball shaped. Hundreds of shocks on eBay, all from Thailand, china. and Timbuktu.

Suggestions ? overall about 15inches long, 1 inch od. about a 5inch stroke, and no almost 100 percent of the sellers don't list the details.

Rode it awhile ago, turn loose the handle bars almost no shake, but bike will pull to the right if handlebars are unattended at slow speed. Was hoping the shock would help hold her straighter than that.

That^s my story and how its unfolding, whats your experience. ???View attachment 33667View attachment 33668View attachment 33670View attachment 33671

the pull to the right is more than likely the the crown in the road you can drive on the wrong side of the road (i didnt really recommend that did i?) more than likely it will pull left...
yrs ago i put a bungee cord on my front fork to take that little pull away... course then you wanna ride the left on the highway its pulling the wrong way... with very little trail it not very noticeable... but this is the reason i went with a lean set up

 

[stinger608]

Have you tried moving your fork brace up any????

Reason I ask, is I built an ole shovel trike for a pal of mine and when we first got it completed it about tossed him off the scoot from the front end shimmy.

Got a fork brace and it helped but it was still there.

What we did, and it even looks better, is to measure the distance between the bottom of the top triple tree to the top of the bottom triple tree along the fork tube. Now move your fork brace up to measure that same distance from the bottom of the bottom triple tree to the top of the fork brace.

Don't know if that will help with your application but it will probably only take minutes to test to see if that takes care of your issue.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

Any suggestions on a shock >>> one i have is weak and brand new, im looking for the adjustable, shock, one inch in diameter, not finding any locally and eBay gotem but i cant put my hands on them an test the resistance.

Soooo any real world experience ???

Suggestions ? overall about 15inches long, 1 inch od. about a 5inch stroke, and almost 100 percent of the sellers don't list the details.

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

I guess all you smart guys are keeping a well kept secret, guess few read this and have info that would benefit me, some do, some dont, come on wake up, lets hear it.

which is the best stabilizer ? mmm, its about 8inch long instead of 15, and about one inch around.

Is the bk rider best bang for the buck ?

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

I didn't ask about trail, i asked about a stabilizer. You didn't see any info on trail, because i haven't measured it yet.

As for a band aid, thats a given, jap bikes all come with it on the bigger cc sportsmodels i have, so i guess japs are selling band aids included.

Im going to run a stabilizer regardless of trail.

I didn't say it was what i wanted i said it was what it is. Pay attention and have another cup of whatever wakes ya up. Now backs to the program, whats the best stabilizer this side of ohlin. ? Thanks again.

 

[stinger608]

I didn't ask about trail, i asked about a stabilizer. You didn't see any info on trail, because i haven't measured it yet.

As for a band aid, thats a given, jap bikes all come with it on the bigger cc sportsmodels i have, so i guess japs are selling band aids included.

Im going to run a stabilizer regardless of trail.

I didn't say it was what i wanted i said it was what it is. Pay attention and have another cup of whatever wakes ya up. Now backs to the program, whats the best stabilizer this side of ohlin. ? Thanks again.

Not sure what would be the "best" stabilizer to be honest. I mean they all pretty much do the same thing. Well of course as long as they don't flex. LOL

Did you try my suggestion about moving it up to the same distance as the distance between your triple tree? I also talked to a fella locally that has a 10 over front end and he actually installed dual stabilizers. That might be something to think about as well.

Keep us posted. :clapping:

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

Not sure what would be the "best" stabilizer to be honest. I mean they all pretty much do the same thing. Well of course as long as they don't flex. LOL

Did you try my suggestion about moving it up to the same distance as the distance between your triple tree? I also talked to a fella locally that has a 10 over front end and he actually installed dual stabilizers. That might be something to think about as well.

Keep us posted. :clapping:

iM FIXATED on the stabilizer, one of the reasons is im thinking of putting one on my street-glide, that has no shake, and tracks true.

But at a stop taking off wants to go left or right a bit, if i hold her tighter she goes straighter, but i fingered out the crown in the road is the culprit sometimes, so if a stabilizer works on the trike i might move on to one on the street-glide which i envision triking someday cause im old geezer.

Tire on trike an streetglide same same tread, venom. Like it better than dunlop, but im not in love with the new trike tire yet. Time will tell

Time is limited sometimes, so im taking one issue and working with that, see what the end result is and moving to the next suggestion such as the brace movement.

if i do three at once an its fixed i wont know which did what. JMO

- - - Updated - - -


I thought about duals, an when i ordered the kit the pic made it look like duals, yeah yeah, we know better, but who could a guessed. ? read my previous post on it.

Guy straightening my Dyna frame says he uses vw steering stabilizers off a bug, only cost 20 or so, been a while since he bought one, 69 bucks on eBay.

makes his own brackets and hes happy with the results, i may go that direction on the street glide, but prefer a more professional look, that may change.

I need function over form sometimes.

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

iM FIXATED on the stabilizer, one of the reasons is im thinking of putting one on my street-glide, that has no shake, and tracks true.

But at a stop taking off wants to go left or right a bit, if i hold her tighter she goes straighter, but i fingered out the crown in the road is the culprit sometimes, so if a stabilizer works on the trike i might move on to one on the street-glide which i envision triking someday cause im old geezer.

Tire on trike an streetglide same same tread, venom. Like it better than dunlop, but im not in love with the new trike tire yet. Time will tell

Time is limited sometimes, so im taking one issue and working with that, see what the end result is and moving to the next suggestion such as the brace movement.

if i do three at once an its fixed i wont know which did what. JMO

- - - Updated - - -



I thought about duals, an when i ordered the kit the pic made it look like duals, yeah yeah, we know better, but who could a guessed. ? read my previous post on it.

Guy straightening my Dyna frame says he uses vw steering stabilizers off a bug, only cost 20 or so, been a while since he bought one, 69 bucks on eBay.

makes his own brackets and hes happy with the results, i may go that direction on the street glide, but prefer a more professional look, that may change.

I need function over form sometimes.

I was wrong he was wrong, vw stabilizer was 27.50 on eBay, mechanic that tole me 20 bucks on stabilizer was closer than my 69 bucks i had found earlier in the week.

Not a stabilizer locally yet. Would jus like to put my hands on one an test it before plunking cash and shipping an all that rot.

I may measure the trail this weekend for those that have a need to know, if its too far out, pull it in, with the idea i may have to pull the tubes and cut them down.

Now thats something to look forward to. :AGGHH:

 

[J.T.M.]

Ok already. If you people will go back and read his original post he did not ask what he should do to fix his problem. He asked what stablizer he should use to bandaide it. Don't give him such a hard time. If you can recomend a stablizer that will help please do. As for me the rake and trail info supplied would be a big help.

 

[J.T.M.]

It is about time we helped him out. I cannot advise him on his stabilizer problem because the only stabilizer I have used was on some of the old 4X4 trucks I used to work on. Steering stabilizers are not to be looked down on. The Harley Tri Glide comes with one from the factory and some of the older Ford 4X4 trucks had one from the factory. I have even seen steering stabilizers on some older Corvettes. Now with this info does any one out there know what is the best stabilizer if so please tell him. Heck I may put one on mine even if I don't need it.

 

[Papa Zook]

This thread is providing some good safety information on rake and trail and how to eliminate headshake so we are re-opening the thread less the off topic bickering. Carry on Downtown Cowtown.

 

[Sidecarbill]

Very few people understand rake and trail. A friend of mine built his own front end,showed it 2 me. I mentioned that it didn't have much trail. I said when the the trail gets much less than 2" they felt 2 twitchy 4 me. Well as he said later he had no idea what trail was,so he lengthened the swing arm on the leading link front end. That put him at about 2" negative. Went down the street hit about 25 mph,went into what he called the wobble from hell,tore the bars out of his hands darted to the right,flipped the rig on top of him. Now he's sliding down the street with a sidecar rig on top of him. Ground thru his boots right down 2 the ankle bone. So yea its important. we only make suggestions on these threads because we want 2 help.

 

[Papa Zook]

Proper Rake & Trail configuration is complicated and can sometime defy logic.
Examples:





















In theory, these should all be unrideable at high speeds or through curves, but they are not.

 

[Downtown Cowtown]

Proper Rake & Trail configuration is complicated and can sometime defy logic.
Examples:

View attachment 34711

View attachment 34712

View attachment 34713















In theory, these should all be unrideable at high speeds or through curves, but they are not.

In theory, theory works 100 percent of the time, in reality, maybe not so much.

When i used to build superglide trikes with narrow front ends i put 10 degree non adjustable trees on them, and man they handled quick as a wink.

I was looking to replicate that here, with the pat Kennedy trees it aint happening, to the degree i was looking for because of the slo speed shake, which is diminished jus a bit with the sorry Daytona brand stabilizer that i installed.

I think its a combination of factors, one being the new frame with 2in stretched tubes which is was not suppose to be, and the dropped seat rail, it was suppose to be a direct copy of the Harley frame, not so, and im unhappy, but it sat 14yrs and now its a little late to do anything except cry about it or adapt to it.

I can see the end game coming, Ugh, pull the front end, buy another lower tree for the 41mm tubes and bore them out to fit, then cut down my tubes and rethread, dropping the front and leveling the frame, an go from there, im dreading it.

Ive been over a year bringing it back to life, and wanted my girl to ride this summer a bit, if i bring the front end in too much it raises the bike and looks a bit odd, and or does it affect how it handles adversely by being raised in the front. ??

I had the brace higher on the forks and lower it to see a difference, no difference that i could tell, that step one.

Step two i installed a stabilizer, and as poor a product as it is it did take some, some of the slo tire shake out.

Step three will be to pull the rake in a bit, which is a bitch, it looks easy, but it aint. Why ?? darned if i know, took a 4 ft pry bar to line up last time, two adjustable holes at the top.

I had no info and still don't on these trees, so which is what and what works best for what, is unknown, for the moment. Any real world experience out there on pat Kennedy trees such as these.

I believe these trees were originally made for choppers like occ, saw one at a swap meet this weekend, riding it with some ungodly bars that almost straight back to the rider, guess what, hahah front wheel wanted to wobble on it, slo speed with more rake than i have. As Ive said, seen it before.

The more rake, the more steady at speed, at slo speed. wants to flop.

As for the rake an trail, yes i can pull it in and get more trail, thats coming, jus don't like the look when its done. That means shorter tubes and mo work.

And im changing the handlebars for the third time, with internal wiring, my bud the elct guy would pull his hair out if he had any.

Box unfinished, paint, handlebars, and front end, i feel like im starting over. :AGGHH:

Im in it to win it, my lady is a bit peeved about it, but im putting her to work on the box, the rest will fall in place,
paint should be the last demon to slay.

Stay tuned and if ya have any constructive advice im listening, but be warned time is limited and i may not jump to your advice on a moments notice, takes a little longer sometimes.but im opened minded. Thanks