Dealer told me today why my TG runs hot

[Ol' Grey]

There are dealers who still stick with the old play book, I had a mechanic at the dealer we used to do business with tell me I should change my oil every 2,500 miles. I looked at him and told him I wouldn't be tossing away perfectly good oil.

Oil subjects are always dicey, so had to put on the asbestos suit before posting here, LOL!

I respect that you and your Dad had other issues with that dealer and I don't blame you for not going there anymore. If he was talking about changing dino oil at 2500 miles, I'm not in total disagreement with him. If he was talking about changing synthetic oil at that mileage, then he's from a different planet.........:laugh:

Everyone has their own rule-of-thumb when it comes to oil and frequency of oil changes. Not to argue, but for comparison's sake, I know a lot of folks (myself included) who change dino oil at every 3000 miles or every 3 months (whichever comes first). Oil being the life blood of the machine, it allows me peace of mind to do regular, fairly frequent oil changes to remove particulates, etc. but not everyone agrees and that's fine. To each their own ThumbUp

If it hasn't been done yet, it might be interesting to see a thread of who uses dino, who uses synths, and at what intervals they do oil changes........

Ride Safe.........

 

[Ol' Grey]

Just another way of looking at it (not that it has to change anyone's minds)...

A cross-country run is approx. 3000 miles:

LA to Miami = approx. 2700 miles
LA to NYC = approx. 2800 miles
Frisco to NYC = approx. 2900 miles
Frisco to Miami = approx. 3000 miles

Some might make a run like that round trip and choose not to change their oil. Others might make a run like that and do an oil change before heading back on their return trip (I know I would)

As always.......to each their own ThumbUp

Ride Safe...........

 

[GARYD]

It would depend on the type oil. You're right if it is dino oil. I would change at each end point. If it was just a leasurly ride both ways and Syn oil, I would change when I returned home.

One year going to Canada, about 1200 miles round trip, I did change my syn oil as soon as I got back because at the border coming home, at almost "no go" in stop and go traffic, my oil went to 310* on my digital dip stick. I had to pull over because the bike kept moving forward with the clutch pulled all the way in. That time I did change all the fluids.

 

[Skeet7373]

No more hot issues, no more pinging down the road TTS ARE READY TO START SHIPPING, YEA!!!

Oh, by the way MoCo just told me to find a second opinion, they gave me a reference number to give to the SM of my choosing....lots of help there, yea buddy!!! They noted what the SM told me about my legs blocking the air, the guy John listened to what I said and had me to repeat it, then when I said "and I spend $35K on my toy and I want it to run correctly", end of subject, I was told to get the second opinion and give them a reference number. He immediately talked over me to end the conversation. They do not want to hear you say you spend tons of money, so they just get off the phone.

Now, the weather is going cool this weekend, great riding, but I will not be able to get out of my garage, having alot of rock work done around my driveway, stuff is falling down since it was all built in 1964.

 

[Ol' Grey]

It would depend on the type oil. You're right if it is dino oil. I would change at each end point. If it was just a leasurly ride both ways and Syn oil, I would change when I returned home.

One year going to Canada, about 1200 miles round trip, I did change my syn oil as soon as I got back because at the border coming home, at almost "no go" in stop and go traffic, my oil went to 310* on my digital dip stick. I had to pull over because the bike kept moving forward with the clutch pulled all the way in. That time I did change all the fluids.

ThumbUp......We're on the same page, GARYD, and I agree with everything you've said.

310* is spooky hot and whether it was necessary or not afterwards, I'd have changed out all the fluids as well. An ounce of prevention goes a l-o-n-g way.

Good on ya and Ride Safe...........ThumbUp

 

[Ol' Grey]

No more hot issues, no more pinging down the road TTS ARE READY TO START SHIPPING, YEA!!!

Oh, by the way MoCo just told me to find a second opinion, they gave me a reference number to give to the SM of my choosing....lots of help there, yea buddy!!! They noted what the SM told me about my legs blocking the air, the guy John listened to what I said and had me to repeat it, then when I said "and I spend $35K on my toy and I want it to run correctly", end of subject, I was told to get the second opinion and give them a reference number. He immediately talked over me to end the conversation. They do not want to hear you say you spend tons of money, so they just get off the phone.

Now, the weather is going cool this weekend, great riding, but I will not be able to get out of my garage, having alot of rock work done around my driveway, stuff is falling down since it was all built in 1964.

Thanx for the up-date, Skeet7373, and sure hope that it all gets sorted out to your satisfaction. After spending $35K, you're certainly entitled to a GOOD running machine!

Ya know, after reading all of the problems that folks have been having with the TriGlide, it makes me wonder if the MoCo isn't eating some karma for pulling out of their trike building agreement with Lehman........:Shrug:.........nah, couldn't be that, LOL!

 

[msocko3]

He immediately talked over me to end the conversation. They do not want to hear you say you spend tons of money, so they just get off the phone.

I had the same thing when I talked to HD's customer service, they changed their tune when I told them if they continued down their chosen path it wouldn't end well for them because they would be in the same boat as the auto makers and Uncle Sugar wouldn't be riding to their rescue with a bail out. This was over the sluggish acceleration with the 32 tooth sprocket. I believe in the end it resulted in the change to the 30 tooth sprocket.

 

[TheBobs]

Just another way of looking at it (not that it has to change anyone's minds)...

A cross-country run is approx. 3000 miles:

LA to Miami = approx. 2700 miles
LA to NYC = approx. 2800 miles
Frisco to NYC = approx. 2900 miles
Frisco to Miami = approx. 3000 miles

Some might make a run like that round trip and choose not to change their oil. Others might make a run like that and do an oil change before heading back on their return trip (I know I would)

As always.......to each their own ThumbUp

Ride Safe...........

On my cross country trip, the oil was changed when the "B" trip meter hit 5,000 miles. It happened to be on the westbound leg in Illinois. Then had it changed again after getting home, about 5,300 on "B". Haven't seen the need to mess with syn3 until 5,000 miles is up. But if it were dino, it would be every 2,500 like others have said for sure!

 

[Ol' Grey]

On my cross country trip, the oil was changed when the "B" trip meter hit 5,000 miles. It happened to be on the westbound leg in Illinois. Then had it changed again after getting home, about 5,300 on "B". Haven't seen the need to mess with syn3 until 5,000 miles is up. But if it were dino, it would be every 2,500 like others have said for sure!

Makes perfect sense to me. With synthetics allowing for roughly double the mileage as gotten on dino before a recommended oil change, have seen synth oil change intervals anywhere's from 5000-7500 miles or every 6 months, with some folks going 10,000 miles on synth before changing it out, so you're definitely on the safer and wiser side of the interval scale ThumbUp

Seems like whenever an extremely high mileage vehicle is found, whether motorcycle, car, whatever.....and when the owner is asked what they attribute their high mileage to, their first response is almost invariably "Regular and frequent oil changes".

Ride Safe..........

 

[msocko3]

Makes perfect sense to me. With synthetics allowing for roughly double the mileage as gotten on dino before a recommended oil change, have seen synth oil change intervals anywhere's from 5000-7500 miles or every 6 months, with some folks going 10,000 miles on synth before changing it out, so you're definitely on the safer and wiser side of the interval scale ThumbUp

Seems like whenever an extremely high mileage vehicle is found, whether motorcycle, car, whatever.....and when the owner is asked what they attribute their high mileage to, their first response is almost invariably "Regular and frequent oil changes".

Ride Safe..........

FWIW I normally send an oil sample to Black Stone for analysis, this is the results from the sample I sent to them last year when I drained the oil with 5,300 miles on it. At the time I was running Syn3 in just the engine only, as you said a synthetic oil will hold up much better.

 

[Ol' Grey]

Interesting chart and thanx for sharing that, Mike ThumbUp

Fairly consistent results when comparing to the previous sample in 2010 and the comments provided by the BLACKSTONE tech say it all. Excellent!

The viscosity #'s (basically the oil's "resistance to flow" characteristics) don't only speak of the synthetic oil holding up better, that's downright impressive! ThumbUp

Ride Safe.......

 

[Bigbill]

FWIW I normally send an oil sample to Black Stone for analysis, this is the results from the sample I sent to them last year when I drained the oil with 5,300 miles on it. At the time I was running Syn3 in just the engine only, as you said a synthetic oil will hold up much better.

Msocko, do you use Syn3 in all boxs?

 

[msocko3]

Msocko, do you use Syn3 in all boxs?

I used Syn3 in the engine, Formula+ in the primary and Redline shockproof heavy in the transmission.

 

[GARYD]

I think everyone should get a UOA, just to actually see what their oil is doing and if they really need to change the oil at a set time. Sometimes the oil has a longer life then the owner thinks and dumps perfectly good oil into the landfill, etc.

I live by UOA's. I sent one in and found out my GMC vehicle has a major fuel/oil dilution problem, which is a somewhat common problem to that vehicle. The only problem is GM says it is not a problem even though 3 independant analyzers say otherwise. So I'm between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Ol' Grey]

I think everyone should get a UOA, just to actually see what their oil is doing and if they really need to change the oil at a set time. Sometimes the oil has a longer life then the owner thinks and dumps perfectly good oil into the landfill, etc.

I live by UOA's. I sent one in and found out my GMC vehicle has a major fuel/oil dilution problem, which is a somewhat common problem to that vehicle. The only problem is GM says it is not a problem even though 3 independant analyzers say otherwise. So I'm between a rock and a hard place.

Wasn't aware of UOA's until Mike posted his, but can see the value of them. I can also appreciate your dilemma with the major fuel/oil dilution in your GMC. Higher than normal fuel levels in the oil is obviously not a good situation. Seeing as it seems to be a common problem with your kind of vehicle, am wondering what recourse you might have and it's got to be frustrating that GM keeps cuffing it off. Maybe if you joined a forum that's specific to your same vehicle and find others who've got the same problem, Y'all might be able to start a grass roots movement.....writing letters to GM, etc.......and see if Y'all can get GM to address the problem ?

(Skeet7373........Thanx for your patience while some of us temporarily hi-jack your thread and we're looking forward to how your situation turns out when you know more ThumbUp Ride Safe)

 

[GARYD]

I do belong to the Terrain forum and there are others that have the same problem, but they don't seem to want to do anything, you know how hard it is to get people to get involved. The others say they don't have the problem even though they never had a UOA done (like the ostrich with it's head in the ground).
GM really doesn't give a $%$#@ unless thousands are haveing the same problem. GM said the results are within the norm. And DI engines are known for that problem. As long as the DI engine is friendly to the environment and give good gas milage, no one's going to do anything about it.
I thought about a lawyer, but I don't have the money to hire one.

If I ever do buy another car, it won't be one with a DI engine.

 

[Bagger]

What's the issue your riding a Harley, try heat tape on the pipes.

 

[Ol' Grey]

I do belong to the Terrain forum and there are others that have the same problem, but they don't seem to want to do anything, you know how hard it is to get people to get involved. The others say they don't have the problem even though they never had a UOA done (like the ostrich with it's head in the ground).
GM really doesn't give a $%$#@ unless thousands are haveing the same problem. GM said the results are within the norm. And DI engines are known for that problem. As long as the DI engine is friendly to the environment and give good gas milage, no one's going to do anything about it.
I thought about a lawyer, but I don't have the money to hire one.

If I ever do buy another car, it won't be one with a DI engine.

Understood about too many people being apathetic. Did a little research about DI engines and you probably know better than I on the subject, but when you say others claim to not have the problem even tho' they haven't had a UOA done, they may very well have the problem but not know it. From what little I read, it said that DI engines in Europe don't have the fuel/oil dilution problem because those engines are set much leaner. Here in the U.S. the DI engines apparently are set too rich, so more may be effected than realize it.

It's a shame that many businesses only focus on the bottom line ($$$) and aren't as concerned with putting out a reliable product.

"GM said the results are within the norm."..........If I'm remembering what I read correctly, a reading of 5.0+ % fuel/oil dilution is considered unhealthy for the engine. Without posting your UOA test results (I'll take your word for it ) was your reading within or above that figure ? If so, it would definitely speak of a mechanical problem altho' I fully understand that it might be near impossible to get GM to admit it.

 

[GARYD]

I'm sure some of the people that don't get a UOA probably do have the problem - they just do not want to know.

I've had 4 UOA done over 2 years, I don't have the figures in front of me right now, but they started at around 3.8% then 5% then 8.5% and the last one was about the same. When GM took a sample- they came up with 2.9% and said it was within the norm, but all the other analyzers said anything over 2% is not good.
So who should I believe, 3 independant analyzers (who are unbiased) or GM (who is completely biased)???



Sorry for getting OT, I ramble sometimes - I'm done.

 

[Ol' Grey]

I'm sure some of the people that don't get a UOA probably do have the problem - they just do not want to know.

I've had 4 UOA done over 2 years, I don't have the figures in front of me right now, but they started at around 3.8% then 5% then 8.5% and the last one was about the same. When GM took a sample- they came up with 2.9% and said it was within the norm, but all the other analyzers said anything over 2% is not good.
So who should I believe, 3 independant analyzers (who are unbiased) or GM (who is completely biased)???



Sorry for getting OT, I ramble sometimes - I'm done.

Yes, I'd read that 2% is considered the average and 8.5% would definitely put it in the "bad" zone, leading to concerns about premature top-end wear.

Guess there's hot and cold sample readings, but not sure if that difference could account for GM coming up with 2.9%.

At any rate, I agree with you and the independent analyzers. GM is dodging the issue. Unfortunately, you may not get any remedy from GM, but hopefully your input can give a head's up to others who may be considering a vehicle with a DI engine.

I've rambled, too, and it's a done deal here as well :laugh:

Ride Safe.........ThumbUp

 

[screwball]

Forgive me, I'm 67 years old, driving since I was 16. I've had more cars, motorcycles, and boats than I can count. Until this thread I've never heard of a UOA, let alone ever considered having one. Is it expensive, where does one get it done. And, why??

 

[Nana]

Forgive me, I'm 67 years old, driving since I was 16. I've had more cars, motorcycles, and boats than I can count. Until this thread I've never heard of a UOA, let alone ever considered having one. Is it expensive, where does one get it done. And, why??

Google "Used Oil Analysis". I think that is what they are discussing

 

[TheBobs]

What was this thread about?

 

[screwball]

It started with Skeets not so nice dealer. I just picked it up with the oil analysis.

 

[msocko3]

It started with Skeets not so nice dealer. I just picked it up with the oil analysis.

The thread sure has gotten a nice drift to it. I use Black Stone Labs for my analysis Blackstone Labs Cost starts at $25 and goes from there.

 

[Skeet7373]

You guys are so funny. Ok, outside temps were down last Sunday to high 70's to about 80 degrees. I took off my fork wind deflectors and installed the 2" lexan deflector from Dennis's products. The wind hit me more in my face than I like for it to be. So, I rode toward Monteagle, Tn, a higher elevation where it was cooler. When I started to come down the mountain after riding for over 4 hours, the tg started to have value rattle, some ping but not as bad as on hotter days. So, we rode for two more hours, just a rattling along. The good news, what a beautiful day it was, just me on all two lane roads, rode 300 miles.

Fullsac sent me a request for MONEY, so the TTS is ready to be shipped, all this heat, pinging and rattling will hopefully be gone within the next month or so. I need to find someone to help me install the header pipe and the mufflers, then its a trip to Georgia to see Wiz.

 

[OlBandit]

Skeet,

You dont have to goto Georgia to see the Wiz! The Wiz can and will take care of things right from his desktop!!! Dave got his name the Wizard, because he can truly tune a bike anywhere in the world right from his desktop, I know he helped me get started with TTS. I just can not keep my hands out of it now. I think I'm hooked.

You only need a few things after you get the TTS software.

1. Know where to hook the TTS cable in. If it is a Triglide then the connector is under the side panel on the left side of the bike. The TTS connector is designed to only plug into the correct connector.

2. Get teamviewer, just the free version.

You will then be all set to have the Wiz tune your bike. You will have to go for some Vtune rides but the Wiz will guide you through that process when it is time!!!! Vtuning can be a pain in the butt, I take my son along with me and he watches the laptop and tells me what I need to do to get all the cells green. Vtuning requires you to ride the bike differently then you would normally ride, but again the Wiz will give you instructions on how to do it!! The Wiz is the best at this stuff!!!!!

By the way, I was wondering if there was anyway I could send you a request for money too????? lol.

Good luck with your issues, after changing my air cleaner to stage 1, changing head pipes to the sportpipe and installing new mufflers the bike runs much cooler and runs far better than the stock configuration did! Just got 40 MPG on back roads with no ping or heat!!

Ride Safe and Enjoy!

 

[Rosy]

Skeet,

You dont have to goto Georgia to see the Wiz! The Wiz can and will take care of things right from his desktop!!! Dave got his name the Wizard, because he can truly tune a bike anywhere in the world right from his desktop, I know he helped me get started with TTS. I just can not keep my hands out of it now. I think I'm hooked.

You only need a few things after you get the TTS software.

1. Know where to hook the TTS cable in. If it is a Triglide then the connector is under the side panel on the left side of the bike. The TTS connector is designed to only plug into the correct connector.

2. Get teamviewer, just the free version.

You will then be all set to have the Wiz tune your bike. You will have to go for some Vtune rides but the Wiz will guide you through that process when it is time!!!! Vtuning can be a pain in the butt, I take my son along with me and he watches the laptop and tells me what I need to do to get all the cells green. Vtuning requires you to ride the bike differently then you would normally ride, but again the Wiz will give you instructions on how to do it!! The Wiz is the best at this stuff!!!!!

By the way, I was wondering if there was anyway I could send you a request for money too????? lol.

Good luck with your issues, after changing my air cleaner to stage 1, changing head pipes to the sportpipe and installing new mufflers the bike runs much cooler and runs far better than the stock configuration did! Just got 40 MPG on back roads with no ping or heat!!

Ride Safe and Enjoy!

OlBandit,
Hey, is it true Harleys have to run high test fuel? I thought I heard this at the rally. Wow, if this is true, MPG becomes very important. 87 for my Wing.
Keep on tuning!

Rgards,

Rosy
From NH

 

[Chazzman]

I have owned many Harley's, really disappointed since 2007 with the heat issues. I went to see the 2013 Tri Glide, Blue & Silver, what a beautiful Trike. My dealer friend told me the cold hard facts about the heat. I went for a test ride and opted for another brand Trike. It was a deal at 29K, I am spending 10K more, too bad that HD can't get it together.

Not bashing what you ride guys, just really disappointed with the Motor CO.

 

[OlBandit]

Depends on what gas you do your vtune runs on. I do all my tuning runs with 92 octane, I have not tried anything lower than that, but maybe I will step out of my comfort zone and try some lower octane fuel. Only time will tell!

Ride Safe and Enjoy!