Three Harley trikes at one time.

[Trike4u]

Took a little ride on Sunday because the weather was just perfect and the number of motorcycles out was definitely an indication of such. The three photos are of a stop off I did at the Fox valley Harley-Davidson dealer in St. Charles Illinois that I visit a lot. Believe it or not, there were a lot of Harley trikes out yesterday,more than I’ve seen in a long time. I did not see any trike kit bikes out though, just factory made Harley trikes.

Also, not to change tracks, talked to a dealer Technician on Sunday about the EPA lawsuit that Harley had and the Fuel management tuners (fuel packs) that are being sold by various manufactures. He said and I will quote: “You install one of these or modify your Harley (with slip-ons that change the bikes EPA geometry set by H-D) to not meet EPA standers and warranty is VOID.”:AGGHH:

Yourthoughts on this one: Do you think the tech is right or wrong?Took some photos of the three trikes together, so enjoy.:laugh:

 

[bronxbill]

As I read it, the EPA is requiring HD to not do warranty work on modified bikes. They also have to report number of warranty rejections to EPA

 

[screwball]

Had the same discussion with the Service Manager and Owner at Antelope Valley Harley. IF you tinker with the fuel management system and your fork seals leak, they will fix them under warranty. They will fix most things even if you tinker with the exhaust etc.

Catastrophic failures are a different thing. The dealers in most cases have to get authorization from the MoCo to do any major warranty work. IF you added a fuel system, then burned a hole in a piston, "you are screwed" Their words. He said, any modifications you do that can cause engine failure MAY void your warranty. His dealership doesn't routinely report any mods just to void a warranty.

 

[bronxbill]

I agree with Screwball. I should have been more specific and said engine failure warranty work. I'm sure there will be more clarification on this after the dealer meeting this week. I would think this will be a topic of discussion

 

[Trike4u]

Had the same discussion with the Service Manager and Owner at Antelope Valley Harley. IF you tinker with the fuel management system and your fork seals leak, they will fix them under warranty. They will fix most things even if you tinker with the exhaust etc.

Catastrophic failures are a different thing. The dealers in most cases have to get authorization from the MoCo to do any major warranty work. IF you added a fuel system, then burned a hole in a piston, "you are screwed" Their words. He said, any modifications you do that can cause engine failure MAY void your warranty. His dealership doesn't routinely report any mods just to void a warranty.

wouldn't doing a stage one modification to your engine like high airflow filter (KLM) and slip ons (V&H, Cobra) change airflow intake and gas flow? After all, modify anything on the bike outside of manufacture set limits alters the bikes EPA rating. You can't change any of these without actually changing the bike in someway that could damage the engine.

Technically, the dealers have to reset the fuel injection system to compensate for any modification that you add to the bike which then voids any warranty that Harley Davison places on the bike. So in other words, once you buy a Harley Davidson motorcycle you are not allowed to touch it in anyway, shape, size or form, as far as the engine goes to not void warranty.

On this form alone, a lot of people have replace their stock muffler systems with free-flowing mufflers systems. Right there then, they have voided out the warranty because you have now altered the engines back pressure and now it's not the way the manufacturer has set the bike to meat EPA requirements.

Even with this simple modifications the dealer now can tell it's customer to go fly a kite if anything happens to your engine because they do not have to fix it, you have altered the bike not to meet EPA standards. One way to tell this is by all the deceleration popping that occurs when new pipes are added without the correct amount of back pressure.

I believe if Harley Davidson becomes nitpicky with fuel management systems, high airflow filters along with slip on mufflers they'll be a class action lawsuit against them from their owners.

The people who have Added a fuel management system will make the claim that their bikes are running cooler, get better gas mileage, and have increased the performance of the motorcycle no different than those people who had the modifications which I stated above onto their bikes and then have to get the bike retuned from manufacturers specifications.

 

[Trike4u]

The point I'm trying to make here is; Harley Davidson now has to send letters out to all their customers stating that if a bike has been altered, as far as the fuel system is affected by such modifications, that they will not do warranty work on the engine. A stage one modification is such that it may not meet EPA standards and therefore Harley Davidson takes full responsibility for doing such a modification to any motorcycle.

I will give you an example: when I had my Mercedes-Benz , Mercedes-Benz sent a letter out to all their customers stating that the consumer must use only mobile one synthetic oil in their automobiles, otherwise the consumer will void the engine warranty. Mobile one is one of the only oils that's full synthetic and It's not a synthetic blend oil like most are.


When I added a V&H fuel pack system to my H-D sportster there were no warning labels or anything else that came with the system warning me that it could damage the engine and void all warranties of such. When you buy a product such as, let's say a coffee pot, it comes with instruction but it also comes with a lot of warnings written in the instructions on how to handle the product safely.


Manufactures, not the consumer, are responsible for their products and warning the consumer if the product is of any endangerment to the consumer and/or the user of that product.


If Harley Davidson dealers make a big stinky over fuel pack system, I could definitely see a lawsuit going against them because they themselves modified bikes with a stage one modification and still warrantee the engine even though now the engine may not meet EPA standards. With the fuel pack system it may still meet EPA standards because the bike will actually get better fuel mileage which means you're using fuel more efficiently.


Will this whole thing now open up a big can of worms for Harley Davidson dealers?

 

[vito]

The point I'm trying to make here is; Harley Davidson now has to send letters out to all their customers stating that if a bike has been altered, as far as the fuel system is affected by such modifications, that they will not do warranty work on the engine. A stage one modification is such that it may not meet EPA standards and therefore Harley Davidson takes full responsibility for doing such a modification to any motorcycle.



I will give you an example: when I had my Mercedes-Benz , Mercedes-Benz sent a letter out to all their customers stating that the consumer must use only mobile one synthetic oil in their automobiles, otherwise the consumer will void the engine warranty. Mobile one is one of the only oils that's full synthetic and It's not a synthetic blend oil like most are.





When I added a V&H fuel pack system to my H-D sportster there were no warning labels or anything else that came with the system warning me that it could damage the engine and void all warranties of such. When you buy a product such as, let's say a coffee pot, it comes with instruction but it also comes with a lot of warnings written in the instructions on how to handle the product safely.





Manufactures, not the consumer, are responsible for their products and warning the consumer if the product is of any endangerment to the consumer and/or the user of that product.





If Harley Davidson dealers make a big stinky over fuel pack system, I could definitely see a lawsuit going against them because they themselves modified bikes with a stage one modification and still warrantee the engine even though now the engine may not meet EPA standards. With the fuel pack system it may still meet EPA standards because the bike will actually get better fuel mileage which means you're using fuel more efficiently.





Will this whole thing now open up a big can of worms for Harley Davidson dealers?

Don't blame Harley, blame the EPA and over-reaching government bureaucracy in general. I remember when you could do anything you wanted to your bike or car. After all it is yours - or is it???

H-D was just trying to give owners some freedom - freedom to make your bike run like it should.. Now they are in trouble.

Clean air? BS! Any gain has been negated by population increases. You are not allowed to modify your bike so that the fool next door can have six+ kids. Think about that every time you vote!!

 

[consitter]

Clean air? BS! Any gain has been negated by population increases. You are not allowed to modify your bike so that the fool next door can have six+ kids. Think about that every time you vote!!

ThumbUpThumbUp

Awesome statement. And so true!!

- - - Updated - - -

I'm also betting that the dealerships will still do warranty work on pre-ruling bikes that they have altered for the customers. Of course they will do it on the hush-hush. Who could blame them? If they didn't, they would be cutting their own throats, because customers would take their bikes to local shade tree mechanics, who both do better work, and work cheaper than the HD dealers.

 

[Sunman]

So, my FW is coming up to the 2 year old mark and I was thinking about buying an extended warranty. Now I am thinking that may be a waste of money for the big issues. Replacing a stator is a few bucks but I do that at home if it happens close to the house. A blown motor is another issue. Seems to me that it would be possible for Harley to blame most major, big dollar failures on modifications. I am not sure now if I will spend the money for an extended warranty that could be worthless.

Sunman

 

[bronxbill]

As I now understand it, after talking to dealer service mgr. The warranty issue is only for 2017 bikes. If you have a modified 2016 or earlier they will still do warranty work.

 

[Otis]

Slip on mufflers & warranty

My dealership provided a different answer regarding slip on mufflers. It went like this (paraphrased):

"All the engine management hardware/software is located forward of the muffler tips; in or near the header & engine. Therefore, even in California, dealerships lawfully sell slip on mufflers because there is no pollution control modification created by simply changing slip on mufflers. However, once you start changing out air intake, fuel management, headers, etc., EPA issues must be considered."