Suzuki C50 trike?

[standingbear56]

Hi Everyone,
Again I apologize for the delay. I have been in the hospital due to my back. I’m going to be OK, but it looks like my riding season is over for now.
My Cass County Trike kit is now installed on my 93 1200 Sporty. The installation was done by my Harley dealer, Baer Sports in Honesdale Pa.
The instillation manual supplied with the kit provides the basic information needed, but the mechanics said that more step by step photos would be very helpful. Also, the quality of the photos needs to be improved.
Cass County says that the kits bolts on directly without needing additional parts. However the stock rear belt sprocket did not fit on the kit’s axel, and the stock belt was too short. A newer sprocket is needed, as well as a belt several inches longer. The axel spacers with the kit also had to be modified to bring everything in line.
The tolerances of the kit are very close. For instance, there is less than ¼” between the drive belt and the trike kit, and even less between the rear brake caliber and other parts. Due to the rim kit I used, the fender struts and the tires are also very close.
The above has all been overcome with some ingenuity on the part of my mechanics, and are just being mentioned as an FYI for anyone considering purchasing this particular kit. My mechanics called CCC several times for assistance. Depending on which mechanic I spoke to, Ron of CCC was either very helpful or not helpful at all. I was not present during those calls, so I do not know what transpired. My personal experience is that Ron always returned my calls, and was very helpful to me.
The one thing I am NOT happy about is that there is rust showing up on the kit. This was totally unexpected as I was under the impression that the entire thing was aluminum. The rust is NOT on the axel, but on the kit itself. I still do not know how to get photos uploaded so I cannot show any. As soon as someone shows me how to do this, I will send them. Had I known that a part was subject to rusting, I would have had it painted, or something, before it was installed.
I have had the kit up to 50 MPH on local country roads so far, and as of this time, it rides very well. Because of the front trees still being stock, steering is hard. I did not see any tree options for the kit on the CC website. The only way to find them is to google raked trees, Cass County Choppers, and THEN they come up. IMHO, the trees should be shown with the kit info, not hidden somewhere. I will be having either some form of raked tree installed, or convert to a raked Springer, as I like the look of those, and this is something I was planning on doing anyways at some point, even before I decided to go with a trike. Paughco has springers raked up to 3 degrees.
Cass County Choppers is a fairly new company, so one should expect some “bugs”. However the sign of a good company is how they address said “bugs”. Ron appears to be sincere so I look forward to see how these issues are fixed. The kits are definitely workable, and are affordable, even with the extra needed parts. With the exception of the raked trees, I am three wheeling for under $5500.00 total. My suggestion is that if you are considering a CCC kit, call Ron and ask him what he has done to address the above issues. So long as he has addressed them, then the CCC kit is a great bang for the buck. I hope this helps everyone.
Ride safe & Take care,
Bear

 

[HDI_IA]

HDI IA........Good on ya for building the trike for your Dad and it came out GREAT! ThumbUp

Have been maintaining a 2002 Suzuki/Lehman trike (VS800) for a friend and it'll cruise easily at 75 mph, no problem.

Noticed that you're active with the Intruder Alert cafe and without meaning to hijack the thread, was wondering if I could pick your brain a bit here. The owner of this '02 Intruder trike wants more sound from the exhaust, but I'm not interested in doing extensive mods, re-jetting, etc.

My experience has been that if one alters both intake and exhaust, then a re-jet is pretty much a must-do item. But if one alters only intake OR exhaust (one or the other, but not both) and is able to maintain the proper back pressure if choosing to do an exhaust mod, that a re-jet isn't always needed.

Have noticed that the stock cross-over tube is between the mufflers and not between the headers on this VS800. Do you know if anyone from the Intruder Alert cafe has been able to simply change out the mufflers (only) with some aftermarket slip-ons, while keeping the intake stock, to gain more sound, retain the needed back pressure and not have to re-jet ?

I may experiment with some EMGO Shorties (still have to measure the stock headers to see if they'll fit) and if it doesn't work out, I can always put the stock mufflers back on. Any input would be appreciated........

Thanx and Ride Safe........

Hey Ol' Grey yeah I kinda live over on Intruder Alert....I'm the technical moderator over in those parts.

Sorry it took awhile to get back to you, but have been super busy. My experience with the VS800 has taught me that for the most part if you change the pipes WITHOUT changing the intake you usually don't have to rejet the bike. If it does need a jet change usually one size larger is what's needed, but for the most part you can usually get by with doing nothing for the pipes. The intake is a bit different on these and if you don't have to then I'd suggest not even playing with it.

Currently I have a vs800 that I put Supertrapp pipes on (adjustable backpressure) and ran them for years without changing the jetting.

 

[HDI_IA]

Bear first off glad to hear your doing ok. Don't know about you, but for me getting old is starting to really suck....but as long as I'm on this side of the daisy's I guess I'm doing ok

Anyway read through your post and also am at a loss why you have rust. The kit that I have is almost all aluminum....Of course the axle and a few other parts are not, but for the most part everything is billet aluminum.

I believe though that the Sportster kit is a lot different then the C50 kit. Does the swing-arm on the sportster replaced? On the C50 it's pretty much a softtail and the kit is integrated into the existing swing-arm. Maybe that's part of the difference.

For the most part I didn't have a lot of problems with the kit, but when they sent the kit it was first thought that I was getting the dual rotor kit, but got the single rotor kit (kinda glad it did come that way....much less hydraulic work) Anyway they sent the wrong instructions which kind of threw me off a bit, but Ron got that resolved. From what I was told the guy that was doing the shipping for them died and it really put everything a little at odd's for a bit....but I understand as I've been through similar things before.

As far as the kit goes I did have to put a steering dampener on though as there was just enough wobble up front that it really needed it. Layman has a kit for it (but it does come at a high cost). The steering is slightly heavy, but at this point don't think it's heavy enough to change out the tree's.

On the C50 the replacements are 6 or 7 degrees and usually require that you change out the fork tubes as well (2" over is usually recommended). The tree and fork tubes would add about another $1000 to the cost of this and it might happen later, but for the time being we are happy with it the way it is.

 

[Ol' Grey]

Hey Ol' Grey yeah I kinda live over on Intruder Alert....I'm the technical moderator over in those parts.

Sorry it took awhile to get back to you, but have been super busy. My experience with the VS800 has taught me that for the most part if you change the pipes WITHOUT changing the intake you usually don't have to rejet the bike. If it does need a jet change usually one size larger is what's needed, but for the most part you can usually get by with doing nothing for the pipes. The intake is a bit different on these and if you don't have to then I'd suggest not even playing with it.

Currently I have a vs800 that I put Supertrapp pipes on (adjustable backpressure) and ran them for years without changing the jetting.

Thanx very much, HDI_IA.......Can see where you'd be busy at the Intruder Alert. I'm not a member there, but have checked it out a few times and, man, that place is HUGE! In agreement with not messing with the intake on this one. Depending on which bike and what a rider wants from that bike, it's either intake and exhaust or, in this case, just the exhaust. As you're well aware, carb access is pretty tight, so would rather not mess with that as long as it's not necessary and based on your valued input, am encouraged that just changing out the slip-on's with the right style aftermarket ones should do the trick.

Seems like it'll all boil down to adequate back pressure. (You no doubt understand the physics of it, but will share this if it helps others) Years ago, I'd asked an old timer (even older than me now, LOL!) what type of slip-on might allow more sound while retaining the needed back pressure and not altering the intake. His described a slip-on that had a taper starting at the end of the header, then the slip-on would expand for it's main length, then taper off again at the end of the slip-on. This design would allow for an expansion chamber in the slip-on to lend itself to offering the needed back pressure. Even tho' he never actually mentioned the EMGO Shorties, his description fit 'em to the tee and he was spot on. Another style of slip-on that I could see possibly offering the same result might be the "cocktail shaker" type with the taper and flared end.

Thanx again VERY much, it's much appreciated..........Enjoy the Holiday Season and Ride Safe.........ThumbUp

 

[HDI_IA]

Seems like it'll all boil down to adequate back pressure. (You no doubt understand the physics of it, but will share this if it helps others) Years ago, I'd asked an old timer (even older than me now, LOL!) what type of slip-on might allow more sound while retaining the needed back pressure and not altering the intake. His described a slip-on that had a taper starting at the end of the header, then the slip-on would expand for it's main length, then taper off again at the end of the slip-on. This design would allow for an expansion chamber in the slip-on to lend itself to offering the needed back pressure. Even tho' he never actually mentioned the EMGO Shorties, his description fit 'em to the tee and he was spot on. Another style of slip-on that I could see possibly offering the same result might be the "cocktail shaker" type with the taper and flared end.

Thanx again VERY much, it's much appreciated..........Enjoy the Holiday Season and Ride Safe.........ThumbUp

If your pipes don't taper internally there are torque cones that can be used as well to keep the back pressure where it should be. Suppose to help increase low RPM torque as well. I've seen them used on pretty open pipes.

 

[Ol' Grey]

If your pipes don't taper internally there are torque cones that can be used as well to keep the back pressure where it should be. Suppose to help increase low RPM torque as well. I've seen them used on pretty open pipes.

Much appreciated, but I'm of a different school of thought on torque cones (spoken respectfully).........I've seen folks use torque cones to try to compensate for improper carb jetting and some for inadequate exhaust back pressure. Some claim good results and I won't dispute that if it works for them.

If it were a matter of improper jetting, I'd rather just go ahead and do any re-jet needed. For back pressure, I'd rely on true baffles, either adjustable or non-adjustable, slip-ons with a specific shape to offer more back pressure or homemade "lollipops" (adjustable baffle plate near end of exhaust, good results seem to be had when set at a 45 degree angle).

Torque cones seem better suited as "anti-reversion" devices. Reversion = Some exhaust gases reversing direction and getting sucked back into the combustion chamber thru exhaust valves that haven't fully closed yet....The tapered shape of the torque cones slow down any reversed gases to minimize the amount allowed back in.

Did some research on the stock mufflers for the VS800 and it looks like once removed, it exposes a 1 1/2" I.D. header pipe end. Life has been hectic, but when I finally get to it, am thinking of taking the EMGO's to a muffler shop and asking them to use a pipe expander to widen the 1 1/2" EMGO end to maybe 1 5/8" I.D. so's they'll slip over the end of the stock header pipe........still feeling confident that the EMGO's will do the job ThumbUp